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Old 2006-02-17, 09:44   Link #101
npal
I desire Tomorrow!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sixth Layer of Celestia
Age: 32
willx, it seems to me that we are coming to some sort of understanding.
As I stated in my previous post, you would be right to point that assuming the chain of action for Kaede moved only up to Rin is speculation and made the chain moved a bit up, which is correct. Nothing distinguishes Kaede's and Rin's humanity in that aspect. If indeed I gather information to detect a chain of action behind Rin, then Rin is almost in Kaede's place, meaning I will be forced to lift responsibility from Rin's shoulders and place it somewhere further up, if the chain warrants it. Maybe Rin, too, is a victim of the chain of action, and in that case, putting the blame on him for Kaede's actions according to me is as wrong as putting blame on Kaede for her own actions. The whole investigation is more complex than it appears. Anyway I needed to clarify that Rin and Kaede only differ in my mind in their positions on the specific chain of action and they do share the same kind of humanity.

And you have grasped indeed how Kaede comes to aquire free will in the specific chain. The simple question "Why have things turned this way?" or "What have I been doing up to now?" is enough to start the chain search. If you look carefully, Rin also did that at some points, mainly in the end of ep 20. And although I DO believe he chose the wrong actions (but that's just personal opinion), it's still an example of aquiring free will. Unfortunately I believe that Rin fully exhibited free will (saw the chain, understood something about the chain, made a chain altering decision) while Kaede is probably still in the process of understanding the chain and altering the chain (she still hasn't noticed that the chain does lead to Rin at some point and the way things are now, the obvious solution would be to encourage herself to stop loving Rin the way she does. But that's probably a personal opinion, people might have different ideas about that, but it seems to me that Kaede hasn't made any decisions regarding the matter, although she did realise that it's not in her power to stop Rin from moving).

About the other part : well, yes, Kaede really needed professional help at that point. I didn't mean rehabilitation in a bad way, more like "make the person functional in society again" and in Kaede's case, that means psychological assistance. Obviously restrain her to an appropriate degree so she doesn't kill Asa on sight Then help her reform her personality in a way that she can again function in society as a mentally healthy individual. And that's where psychologists come in, they must understand the chain of actions for each person and seek means to alter the chain and/or correct the errors of reaction.

I can understand that our beliefs differ. The reason I would place blame on the parents for a 30yr old is of course through the chain of action. A child's chain of action passes through his parents at some point and it's pretty strong there. Plus, it's the parent's responsibility to be ever vigilant about his child's chain of action and proceed with correction when needed, and then teach your child to do the same for himself (meaning working on his own chain), which is a very important part of being a parent (according to this theory, that is). But of course that's my belief based on the action-reaction chain and people can disagree with that, I still think however that it is a productive way to look at the parental role.

And about the last part, yes, my theory seems to suggest that anything that society regards harmful to itself is wrong and shows lack of free will, which of course can't be the case, as free will can be exhibited in destructive ways. So I'll PM you and we'll continue outside this thread.

Anyway it was a nice discussion, it actually gave me a clue that Rin MIGHT be the same as Kaede in regards to the chain of action, so, if indeed there is an action behind Rin that weighs heavily on his actions as his action weigh heavily on Kaede, I can't hold him responsible.

@evil-samurai What can I say, always up to the challenge Well, most people fear to post in KKR Your last sentence is a huge contradiction. Only God can say that probably
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Old 2006-03-01, 06:49   Link #102
Tsuchimi Rin
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Join Date: Feb 2006
count me in

count me in at least he's a lot more decent then Itsuki. hehehe
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Old 2006-03-01, 07:02   Link #103
npal
I desire Tomorrow!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sixth Layer of Celestia
Age: 32
He is??? At least Itsuki is himself. He's a good friend and he is a well known womanizer who doesn't try to hide that fact from anyone. Not that he's the best of people, I'd probably argue with him about his approach countless times, but whatever, as long as he doesn't end up hurting people like Rin.

Rin, on the other hand, considers himself nice and wants to be considered as such when he hurts more people than he helps, and most of those he helps end up hurt I'd have Itsuki as a friend anytime
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Old 2006-03-01, 07:13   Link #104
peterchen620
Kaede's Fanatic
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
As far as I can think off...

Every move that Rin makes is pretty much the opposite of what I predicted that he'll move.

Lets take an example... He chooses Asa, not Kaede... What the hell!? (Can't resist ARGH!).

I feel sad for the girls, rin is an evil character... However, I admire his indepth second thoughts towards his selection, but I still hate his overall character (not choosing kaede), it just proves that he's an evil character than a nice guy that the girls sworn to meet.

This quote fits Rin perfectly well

"You are not pretty in the inside, AND the outside"
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Old 2006-03-02, 14:23   Link #105
Crimen Scythe
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*applaudes* well-stated peterchen620...i agree completely...(no one wants me here)
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