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View Poll Results: Who's the true Queen?
Mashiro 36 18.18%
Arika 87 43.94%
Nina 51 25.76%
All of them 10 5.05%
None of them 14 7.07%
Voters: 198. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2005-12-31, 03:56   Link #121
NaNash|
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
If Rena was royalty, it would not be a secret. After all, she got her own portrait in the palace. If she was royalty we would hear about it by now.
Plus, if she is royalty and borne the king's child wouldn't it be some sort of......

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Old 2005-12-31, 04:51   Link #122
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by NaNash|
Plus, if she is royalty and borne the king's child wouldn't it be some sort of......

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Nah... That's traditional. Old style royalty always have a little inbreeding back in the day. Not strange at all. As long as they are not closer than 1st cousins, it's all good.
(Though that's how many royal families ended up dying out back then too; the inbreeding killed their gene pool.)
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Old 2005-12-31, 07:26   Link #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babuji
But the doubt became much more serious when they saw arika's gem.
So they might know something about her background.
I don't remember anything implying their doubts rose when they saw the GEM... though I could be wrong, haven't got the eps here to recheck. I do remember both of them being very surprised though, and Sergei obviously drew the conclusion that Arika was Rena's daughter. But both Sergei and Natsuki (I guess... "We still haven't found her." just might refer to Mai and not the missing princess...) has been searching for the missing princess for like 14 years, so if they thought Arika was the princess, why didn't they... do something?
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Old 2005-12-31, 07:29   Link #124
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I would take a wild guess and say that Arika is the Real Queen (and the one Rena sends down the river), and Mashiro is of noble blood but not direct royalty.

And Nina is Rena's child, largely because of the three, she's the one who looks the most likely candidate.

I'd say that it's hard to tell whether any of the three really have their birthday on September 7th. For all we know, Arika's "grandmother" gave her that date for the same reason Sergey gave it to Nina. And Mashiro's birthday has to be stated as that date, because a royal birth should be in the records and such.
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Old 2005-12-31, 09:30   Link #125
kari-no-sugata
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Sergay definitely thinks Arika is Rena's daughter. Sergay is also looking for the true princess on Nagi's orders. Shizuru and Natsuki seem to think that Arika's Rena's daughter as well. Yet, none seem to act like being Rena's daughter makes Arika anyone special. So, either they know Rena's daughter is NOT the true princess or they DON'T KNOW that "Rena's daughter" = "the true princess". However, if they don't know, it would be rather odd - after all, how would they find the real princess then?

Putting it another way, either there had to be TWO baby girls in the palace - Rena's daughter and the true princess, or a massive conspiracy going on to distort the truth.

Side note - there are few hard facts in this series, so my above analysis is based on what SEEMS to be the truth. Not really possible to prove any of it.
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Old 2005-12-31, 10:08   Link #126
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With regards to who Nina really is...

Well, it would be most ironic if she's the real princess, since her adopted father is searching for her...

Anyway, we certainly don't know who Nina's real parents are (though doesn't necessarily have to be anyone special). We do see Nina have a flashback to a Rena-ish person, yet that would be very unlikely to be when Nina was a baby - most people don't have any memories they can recall until they're several years old AFAIK. So it's possible that Rena came across Nina when Nina was very young, and saved her, and then Nina met Sergay a few years later, or something.

Arika also seems to think her mother is alive.

It's not impossible that Nina is the real princess, and Rena escaped with her from the castle, and they traveled together for several years, which is how Nina has the flashback. Then something happened and they were separated. However, if that did happen, why didn't Rena go back to Wind Bloom (or Guarderobe?). So I think that'd be quite unlikely...
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Old 2005-12-31, 10:12   Link #127
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With regards to who Mashiro really is...

If there was a conspiracy to switch Mashiro with the real princess, why doesn't there seem to be some faction trying to control Mashiro? So either it's a very small conspiracy which has now died out (making it impossible to confirm) or Mashiro had something implanted into her so she could be controlled later or there was no conspiracy or the head guy decided to create a fake princess on the spur of the moment to save the kingdom.
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Old 2005-12-31, 10:47   Link #128
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Thinking about this question from a whole different angle would be: whoever is the true princess, how can this be confirmed?

Is there any scientific way? Well, DNA analysis would be a great start, yet surely that'd have been done already if there was any doubt? So that implies DNA analysis is no longer possible. Another possibility is written records - eg a diary. But with all the confusion going on, how reliable would that be?

Otherwise, it boils down to someone being able to confirm things verbaly, one way or another. I doubt any of the regular characters would know. Rena's quite possibly still alive - it's be quite likely she could confirm things. Miyu is another possibility, though I'd be a bit surprised if she knew all the details.

A couple of interesting things to consider: why is Arika's birthday the same as Mashiro's (the official true princess / queen)? Was she simply born on the same day? If so, how would her grandmother know? (I doubt Arika's grandmother chose the date randomly, as in Nina's case. After all, Arika would likely only been a few months old at the start of ep 1) Also, how would Arika's grandmother know that Rena is still alive? (I assume that's who told Arika) Or similarly, how did Arika's grandmother know that Arika's mother was an Otome? So it seems quite possible that Rena didn't simply abandon Arika and hope for the best, but she knew / made sure where Arika would end up (ie with someone she knows). Maybe Rena sent Arika to Miyu first? However, if this was the case, why hasn't Rena come to see Arika? (Rather cruel...) I don't see why Rena couldn't have simply gone to where she knew Arika would be - unless she had something more urgent to do. One possibility is finding the true princess (in which case Nina suddenly seems a good candidate).

Hmm...
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Old 2005-12-31, 11:40   Link #129
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Originally Posted by dkellis
For all we know, Arika's "grandmother" gave her that date for the same reason Sergey gave it to Nina. And Mashiro's birthday has to be stated as that date, because a royal birth should be in the records and such.
Agreed, couldn't have put it better myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata
Thinking about this question from a whole different angle would be: whoever is the true princess, how can this be confirmed?

Is there any scientific way? Well, DNA analysis would be a great start, yet surely that'd have been done already if there was any doubt? So that implies DNA analysis is no longer possible. Another possibility is written records - eg a diary. But with all the confusion going on, how reliable would that be?

Otherwise, it boils down to someone being able to confirm things verbaly, one way or another. I doubt any of the regular characters would know. Rena's quite possibly still alive - it's be quite likely she could confirm things. Miyu is another possibility, though I'd be a bit surprised if she knew all the details.

A couple of interesting things to consider: why is Arika's birthday the same as Mashiro's (the official true princess / queen)? Was she simply born on the same day? If so, how would her grandmother know? (I doubt Arika's grandmother chose the date randomly, as in Nina's case. After all, Arika would likely only been a few months old at the start of ep 1) Also, how would Arika's grandmother know that Rena is still alive? (I assume that's who told Arika) Or similarly, how did Arika's grandmother know that Arika's mother was an Otome? So it seems quite possible that Rena didn't simply abandon Arika and hope for the best, but she knew / made sure where Arika would end up (ie with someone she knows). Maybe Rena sent Arika to Miyu first? However, if this was the case, why hasn't Rena come to see Arika? (Rather cruel...) I don't see why Rena couldn't have simply gone to where she knew Arika would be - unless she had something more urgent to do. One possibility is finding the true princess (in which case Nina suddenly seems a good candidate).

Hmm...
Why? Why do you doubt it? There is no proof either way, so it cannot be doubted. After all, as dkellis so wonderfully put, Arika's 'grandmother' could well have given her that date as a birthday for the same reason Sergei chose Sept. 7th for Nina. A lot of your post is based on assumptions.
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Old 2005-12-31, 15:02   Link #130
kari-no-sugata
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Originally Posted by Preston
Why? Why do you doubt it? There is no proof either way, so it cannot be doubted. After all, as dkellis so wonderfully put, Arika's 'grandmother' could well have given her that date as a birthday for the same reason Sergei chose Sept. 7th for Nina. A lot of your post is based on assumptions.
Read the rest of the line: After all, Arika would likely only been a few months old at the start of ep 1.

It is very unlikely that Arika met her "grandmother" a long time after we see at the start of ep 1. Most likely a few days or maybe a week or so after that point.

The attack would have happened soon after Rena officially retired. ie soon after Arika was born. So while Nina met Sergay when she was about 9, Arika wouldn't have even been 1 when she met her grandmother.

Mashiro was definitely a baby when found by that minister - ie very nearly the same age as Arika.

So for Arika's birthday to have been chosen based on when she first granny, that meeting would have had to have happened on Arika's first birthday (roughly). Which is unlikely.

There's already some clues that Arika's grandmother knew about Rena. So it's quite possible she could know Arika's true birthday.
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Old 2005-12-31, 15:11   Link #131
Preston
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata
Read the rest of the line: After all, Arika would likely only been a few months old at the start of ep 1.

It is very unlikely that Arika met her "grandmother" a long time after we see at the start of ep 1. Most likely a few days or maybe a week or so after that point.

The attack would have happened soon after Rena officially retired. ie soon after Arika was born. So while Nina met Sergay when she was about 9, Arika wouldn't have even been 1 when she met her grandmother.

Mashiro was definitely a baby when found by that minister - ie very nearly the same age as Arika.

So for Arika's birthday to have been chosen based on when she first granny, that meeting would have had to have happened on Arika's first birthday (roughly). Which is unlikely.

There's already some clues that Arika's grandmother knew about Rena. So it's quite possible she could know Arika's true birthday.

But.. um.. the year doesn't matter at all. Arika could have met her 'grandmother' on September 12th XXX0 and Nina met Sergei on September 12th XXX9. Again I say, there is no way to tell for sure than any of the 3 actually have that day as their birthday.
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Old 2005-12-31, 16:18   Link #132
kari-no-sugata
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Originally Posted by Preston
But.. um.. the year doesn't matter at all. Arika could have met her 'grandmother' on September 12th XXX0 and Nina met Sergei on September 12th XXX9. Again I say, there is no way to tell for sure than any of the 3 actually have that day as their birthday.
The year DOES matter. Arika and Mashiro's apparant age at the time of the attack on Fuuka castle is pretty much the same. Certainly Nina's true birthday could be completely different.

Like I explained before, Arika should have first met her grandmother shortly after the events at the start of ep 1 - shortly after Arika was born.

Mashiro's official birthday is 12th September. Arika's one should be close (maybe even the same). The attack happened just after Rena officialy retired - ie shortly after Arika was born. So maybe in October. So it'd be 11 months before 12th September comes up agian. Explain what Arika was doing during that gap.
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Old 2005-12-31, 17:02   Link #133
Preston
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata
The year DOES matter. Arika and Mashiro's apparant age at the time of the attack on Fuuka castle is pretty much the same. Certainly Nina's true birthday could be completely different.

Like I explained before, Arika should have first met her grandmother shortly after the events at the start of ep 1 - shortly after Arika was born.

Mashiro's official birthday is 12th September. Arika's one should be close (maybe even the same). The attack happened just after Rena officialy retired - ie shortly after Arika was born. So maybe in October. So it'd be 11 months before 12th September comes up agian. Explain what Arika was doing during that gap.
I think I have got a wall here, since I cannot even begin to understand where you are comming from. I think I'll leave it up to someone else to argue a bit deeper.

Not a single one of the birthdays are correct for definite. Not a single one. All could have been made up. The year does not matter, because even if you were born one year on a certain day, and someone else was born six years later on the same day of the year, you would share a birthday. Therefore, even though Arika, Nina and Mashiro are all of equal age, apparently, the year does not matter in the least.

Sergei, apparently, chose Nina's birthday because it was the day he first met her.

Arika's 'grandmother' could have chosen that day also because she first met Arika then. There is no more indication that Sept. 12th is Arika's birthday than either Nina or Mashiro. Her past is a similar mystery. Her 'grandmother' may not even be a genetic relative.

Mashiro, as the found princess, would automatically have to have the same birthday as the princess to make her discovery even a little plausible. If she is not the real princess, which is quite possible, then there is only 1 chance out of 365 that that is also her real birthday.

Unlike in Nina's chase where Sergei could still hide ulterior motives for selecting that day, and there even is a chance that it is actually her real birthday, because, even though it is in reality a 1/365 chance, this is a story, a more than slightly unrealistic story where co-incidence rules supreme, Arika's and Mashiro's birthday have no direct indications of any secrets hidden beneath their birthdays. However, when you actually think about it logically and clearly, you realise they also might have had the day pulled out of a hat.
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Old 2005-12-31, 17:37   Link #134
kari-no-sugata
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Originally Posted by Preston
I think I have got a wall here, since I cannot even begin to understand where you are comming from. I think I'll leave it up to someone else to argue a bit deeper.
I'm not the one who keeps on bringing up Nina, when I was only talking about Arika's birthday (and how it relates to Mashiro's). I'm not the one who keeps insisting that Nina's situation at age 9 years or so is directly comparable to Arika's situation just after she was born. It's easier to tell someones true age just after they've been born (though not exactly of course).


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Originally Posted by Preston
Not a single one of the birthdays are correct for definite. Not a single one.
Where did I say otherwise? Where?

On the other hand, the story is certainly playing up the fact about shared official birthdays.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston
All could have been made up. The year does not matter, because even if you were born one year on a certain day, and someone else was born six years later on the same day of the year, you would share a birthday. Therefore, even though Arika, Nina and Mashiro are all of equal age, apparently, the year does not matter in the least.
In Arika and Mashiro's case it does matter, currently. Their apparant date-of-birth should be very similar since on "that day" ~15 years ago they look the same age. I doubt the artists would make them look similar ages when they're not.
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Old 2005-12-31, 18:00   Link #135
Preston
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata
I'm not the one who keeps on bringing up Nina, when I was only talking about Arika's birthday (and how it relates to Mashiro's). I'm not the one who keeps insisting that Nina's situation at age 9 years or so is directly comparable to Arika's situation just after she was born. It's easier to tell someones true age just after they've been born (though not exactly of course).

Where did I say otherwise? Where?

On the other hand, the story is certainly playing up the fact about shared official birthdays.

In Arika and Mashiro's case it does matter, currently. Their apparant date-of-birth should be very similar since on "that day" ~15 years ago they look the same age. I doubt the artists would make them look similar ages when they're not.
Aaaarrg. Ok. Deep breath. Phew. Lets start over.

First, this thread is a poll for who you think is the real queen, correct? Nina is as much an option in the poll as Arika, correct? All three, Arika, Nina and Mashiro are candidates for being the true queen, correct? And all of them are as likely as the rest to be the true queen with what we know now, correct? So perhaps you see why I brought up Nina in that post, only briefly as you can see? Ok, next thing.

All the girls are the same age, making year irrelevant. The date is what matters. The date we have is September 12th. All three girl's 'offical' birthdays are September 12th. However, there is no proof showing that any of the three were actually born on September 12th of any year.

You know, looks are very misleading when you want to know a person's age. Especially in media. Especially in anime. I'm sorry, you are trying to tell how old they are by looking at them as a baby in an anime series? ..That isn't very reliable evidence at all..

Then again, I repeat, all the girls are the same age, for some reason, we know this, right?
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Old 2006-01-01, 03:29   Link #136
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We can't judge look from anime???

Hey, you are not entirely correct. I am just 20 and people thought I was 36 years old. 9 out of 10 people said that. Maybe I do look old after all. It implies to both reality and anime my friend.

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Old 2006-01-02, 16:46   Link #137
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okay, my theory is all three of them (arika, mashiro, and nina) are all the former king's children. but all three of them were adopted by him. he had fallen in love with his otome, but couldnt have children with her, so they adopted three children from various places. and for continuity's sake, they adopted them all on September 7th, and that is why all three of them have the same "birthday"
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Old 2006-01-02, 17:05   Link #138
Preston
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We can't judge look from anime???

Hey, you are not entirely correct. I am just 20 and people thought I was 36 years old. 9 out of 10 people said that. Maybe I do look old after all. It implies to both reality and anime my friend.

No.. it doesn't apply to anime.. Why do you think there is so much debate over Natsuki's age? And you just disproved your own point.. um.. your example prooves that one cannot tell another's age accurately by looking at them, even in reality. Anime is quite a different matter, due to the fact that it is drawn, and writers can draw someone however the way they want, and then pull an age out of a hat to support their plot.
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Old 2006-01-02, 17:59   Link #139
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I'm wondering. Why is everybody saying Arika, Nina and Mashiro's birthday is September 12th? I just rewatched episode 11 and their birthday is September 7th, so I am quite dumbfounded.
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Old 2006-01-02, 18:07   Link #140
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Originally Posted by shinigami1101
okay, my theory is all three of them (arika, mashiro, and nina) are all the former king's children. but all three of them were adopted by him. he had fallen in love with his otome, but couldnt have children with her, so they adopted three children from various places. and for continuity's sake, they adopted them all on September 7th, and that is why all three of them have the same "birthday"
Given that if you dyed Arika's hair black she would look exactly like Rena, I think that it is very probable that she is Rena's daughter, and I don't the King was the father.
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