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Old 2008-06-06, 17:24   Link #621
brightman
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Originally Posted by Last_Hope View Post
I donīt really think Lelouch is an especially superdeveloped character when it comes to his personality compared to Kira. Heīs been pretty much the same since the start, what has been developed is his strength as a battle commander and tactician.
You're confusing characterization with character growth/change. Good characterization is deepness and complexity. Lelouch is indeed a more complex character than Kira.
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Old 2008-06-06, 20:08   Link #622
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Guys, before You doubt the existence of Gelven/D-KLAC. I'm positive that he's a real person.And it's annoying that he's a disgrace to all the Filipino posters here.
a "disgrace" really look i've watching anime since the mid 90s yeah the mid freakin 90s really ya all besides i've part of my life in GS series cause it's a part of me.

like i've mine own version of theory & ideas cause everything in this world is just "unpredictable" because i'm KLAC.

& also really geass is sort a like a bizarro world/oppsite version of GS like it's an alternate version.

plus there will be a GS 3rd cause i've reading some "top secret".
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Old 2008-06-07, 00:54   Link #623
Last_Hope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightman View Post
You're confusing characterization with character growth/change. Good characterization is deepness and complexity. Lelouch is indeed a more complex character than Kira.
Aha, I see. Well that I agree with to be true. Although I wouldnīt say that Kira is "no where near". That just feels like the watcher over thinking about Lelouch as a character, his motives and inner workings.

(Although it would be true if we compared with how Kira was only in Destiny but I donīt really think itīs fair to ignore a full 50 episodes show. Especially since that one is the better one of the two and had the character in mind as its main character aswell.)
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Last edited by Last_Hope; 2008-06-07 at 01:04.
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Old 2008-06-07, 02:09   Link #624
Sir Dearka
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Originally Posted by Last_Hope View Post
Aha, I see. Well that I agree with to be true. Although I wouldnīt say that Kira is "no where near". That just feels like the watcher over thinking about Lelouch as a character, his motives and inner workings.

(Although it would be true if we compared with how Kira was only in Destiny but I donīt really think itīs fair to ignore a full 50 episodes show. Especially since that one is the better one of the two and had the character in mind as its main character aswell.)
The problem is that CE-haters tend to demonize Destiny and use this evaluation to erase the obvious fact that the first SEED was a decent, successful show (this demonizing extends to such characters as Kira and Athrun). The whole "Destiny destroyed CE" thing is crazy. It is as if I said that "ZZ destroyed UC" while it was still the sole new Gundam installment at that time. And we all know that after this series there were many UC shows that were worthy of watching.
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Old 2008-06-07, 02:20   Link #625
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It is as if I said that "ZZ destroyed UC" while it was still the sole new Gundam installment at that time. And we all know that after this series there were many UC shows that were worthy of watching.
But on this subject, I find that ZZ had a better 2nd half than that of Destiny's. Destiny and ZZ are mirror projects. One had a good start and finished horribly(Destiny) the other had a bad one, but recovered(ZZ).

If we're to analyze this, ZZ improved along the way, and Destiny was sinking.... Which of course isn't the same thing
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Old 2008-06-07, 02:32   Link #626
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If at all, the Code Geass character that deserves most to act as analogy to
kira is Suzaku Kururugi.
No.... Suzaku goes against the japanese because he believes that an internal change within brittania is more effective. Kira on the other hand DID not betray his friend, did not use anyone to his advantage directly, and alot more differences.

Suzaku is a guy trying to rally his countrymen into an internal revolution.Kira doesn't even wish such a thing for his race, he instead wants to just protect his friends.
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Old 2008-06-07, 02:58   Link #627
Sir Dearka
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
But on this subject, I find that ZZ had a better 2nd half than that of Destiny's. Destiny and ZZ are mirror projects. One had a good start and finished horribly(Destiny) the other had a bad one, but recovered(ZZ).

If we're to analyze this, ZZ improved along the way, and Destiny was sinking.... Which of course isn't the same thing
To me, the whole ZZ is a misunderstanding. Even the return to a more serious tone at the end did not save the show in my eyes. Destiny was sinking but overally it kept floating near the surface in terms of its success, whilst ZZ did not even manage to ascend much from the depths of its failure, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
No.... Suzaku goes against the japanese because he believes that an internal change within brittania is more effective. Kira on the other hand DID not betray his friend, did not use anyone to his advantage directly, and alot more differences.

Suzaku is a guy trying to rally his countrymen into an internal revolution.Kira doesn't even wish such a thing for his race, he instead wants to just protect his friends.
I said "if at all..." which means that Suzaku is the character that is most similar to Kira in terms of overall image (a valiant knight piloting one of the most powerful mecha with a pink-haired princess at his side? Come on...). And for sure Suzaku reminds me of Kira much more than Lelouch, of course.
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Old 2008-06-08, 14:18   Link #628
Last_Hope
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It all depends what characteristics of Kira you want to compare with Lelouch and Suzaku.

Suzaku and Kira do have some superficial things in common like a superkickass mecha, a pink princess. They do have a great desire for peace that theyīre willing to fight for and their reasoning for it might be a bit ridicoulus to at times too. But both Kira and Lelouch takes on the entire world and points their gun towards their best friends if thatīs what it takes to protect the ones they want to protect. They also were thrown into the situation unwillingly and by chance (another superficial argument).
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Old 2008-06-09, 21:25   Link #629
Eagles
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
To me, the whole ZZ is a misunderstanding. Even the return to a more serious tone at the end did not save the show in my eyes. Destiny was sinking but overally it kept floating near the surface in terms of its success, whilst ZZ did not even manage to ascend much from the depths of its failure, IMO.
I have the opposite opinion, I actually thoroughly enjoyed ZZ once it got past the aztec-space-ninjas, infact I enjoyed it more than the two series that came before it - but I know I'm in the minority there. Destiny on the otherhand seemed to just get worse and worse, and by the end it seemd like one big epic failure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Last_Hope View Post
It all depends what characteristics of Kira you want to compare with Lelouch and Suzaku.

Suzaku and Kira do have some superficial things in common like a superkickass mecha, a pink princess. They do have a great desire for peace that theyīre willing to fight for and their reasoning for it might be a bit ridicoulus to at times too. But both Kira and Lelouch takes on the entire world and points their gun towards their best friends if thatīs what it takes to protect the ones they want to protect. They also were thrown into the situation unwillingly and by chance (another superficial argument).
Actually no matter what way I look at it Suzaku and Kira have alot more in common than Lelouch and Kira. Suzaku and Kira both have very similar personalities, Suzaku just comes off as more flawed, whereas Kira seems to be lacking in that area (by the end anyway). Lelouch seems closer to one of the gundam antagonists like Char, Scirroco or Haman with his calculating and sometimes cold personality.
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Old 2008-06-15, 04:39   Link #630
Eagles
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Originally Posted by boredandsleepy View Post

June 2008 Gundam Ace Monthly Ranking - Top 30 Male Characters:
No. 1 = Char Aznable (15,547 votes) - MSG/The Origin/Zeta

No. 11 = Quattro Bageena - Zeta Gundam
reading through these polls I just noticed this, what the hell?
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Old 2008-06-15, 17:02   Link #631
brightman
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Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
reading through these polls I just noticed this, what the hell?
Old story... FYI they also had both Neo Roanoke and Mu La Flaga in the poll before, though both seem to have dropped out...
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Old 2008-06-17, 01:41   Link #632
Derringer
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Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
reading through these polls I just noticed this, what the hell?
What's wrong? They're completely different people
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Old 2008-06-17, 06:30   Link #633
Sir Dearka
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Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
I have the opposite opinion, I actually thoroughly enjoyed ZZ once it got past the aztec-space-ninjas, infact I enjoyed it more than the two series that came before it - but I know I'm in the minority there. Destiny on the otherhand seemed to just get worse and worse, and by the end it seemd like one big epic failure.
Destiny at least did not go astray so much from the general mood and atmosphere of CE-verse. Unlike ZZ which not only failed as a stylistic continuation of the previous show, but also ended up as a Gundam show with the least appealing characters in my eyes (no matter whether it is char development, design, ideologies or depth - to me it was all of the mentioned).
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:18   Link #634
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
Destiny at least did not go astray so much from the general mood and atmosphere of CE-verse. Unlike ZZ which not only failed as a stylistic continuation of the previous show, but also ended up as a Gundam show with the least appealing characters in my eyes (no matter whether it is char development, design, ideologies or depth - to me it was all of the mentioned).
At least there's Puru. And Haman.
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Old 2008-06-17, 11:27   Link #635
Sir Dearka
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At least there's Puru. And Haman.
It didn't help much, IMO. And I never liked Haman.
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Old 2008-06-17, 18:57   Link #636
brightman
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
Unlike ZZ which not only failed as a stylistic continuation of the previous show
While ZZ's silliness certainly didn't seem to match the seriousness of Zeta, you certainly can't say its not a "stylistic continuation" of UC in general. Zeta generally took the more serious parts of MSG and ran with it, but ZZ is definitely the more bizarre and ridiculous side of MSG (Doan's Island, anyone?).

So no, ZZ doesn't do any worse than Destiny in that regard.

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It didn't help much, IMO. And I never liked Haman.
Bah. So it all comes down to that. People hate Destiny because they hate Kira. You hate ZZ because you don't like Haman (who is one of the most popular characters from UC). So there's nothing new here.
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Old 2008-06-17, 19:36   Link #637
Sir Dearka
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While ZZ's silliness certainly didn't seem to match the seriousness of Zeta, you certainly can't say its not a "stylistic continuation" of UC in general. Zeta generally took the more serious parts of MSG and ran with it, but ZZ is definitely the more bizarre and ridiculous side of MSG (Doan's Island, anyone?).

So no, ZZ doesn't do any worse than Destiny in that regard.
Doesn't it? I respect MSG, but to take the more "bizarre" and "ridiculous" side of it just screams failure to me. But that's just me.

Destiny had much in common with SEED in terms of its form and mood, unlike crazy ZZ to Zeta.

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Originally Posted by brightman View Post
While ZZ's silliness certainly didn't seem to match the seriousness of Zeta, you certainly ca
Bah. So it all comes down to that. People hate Destiny because they hate Kira. You hate ZZ because you don't like Haman (who is one of the most popular characters from UC). So there's nothing new here.
Not really. I never liked Haman, but she's not the sole reason I don't like ZZ. Wrong assumption there. It's its surprising difference to its predecessor that made me regard this series as the worst I've ever seen.

I see it that way: saying that ZZ is good is like saying that an obese woman is pretty. There are obese enthusiast but one cannot deny there are quite few of them in relation to those who just feel repulsed by fat. That's how I see it. And Destiny to me is like an absolute moderate woman, not ugly, but also not that as pretty as her older sister. Still, people hate her older sister for being too "barbie" and hate her self for just being similar in appearance to barbie sis AND not being as pretty as her - a less beautiful version of what they already did not like. And there are the men who expected her to be as pretty as older sis and hate her for not being equally amiable. TO put it simple: some people seem to demonize Destiny just for the sake of it. It's all the matter of taste of course. One could not help sometimes that people try to ridicule what he perceives as undeserving such harsh treatment, huh?
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Old 2008-06-17, 20:27   Link #638
Eagles
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Well going into ZZ I was fully expecting it to be a complete change of pace from Zeta, I even watched quite a few other gundams in between Z and ZZ. AS for the characters, Judau is still my second favorite gundam protagonist (Domon is my first), Haman is still my favorite gundam female and I generally liked Roux, Puru and Chara, and I didn't really dislike anyone.

As for Destiny, look at it like this: I was a Shinn fan. Right from the start I liked his tragic past and general anit-hero like qualities. Ontop of that, in SEED Kira's character development was very unsubtle, infact is was pretty much forced down your throat. So at the very least I could hope for the same for Shinn, a character who I actually took a liking too, unlike Kira who I had found somewhat bland. Well that didn't work out for me, now did it? Instead it doesn't even keep Shinn as the main character all the way through, it switches back to the old cast who I had found to be increasinly annoying as Destiny progressed.
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Old 2008-06-18, 01:32   Link #639
Sir Dearka
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Originally Posted by Eagles View Post
As for Destiny, look at it like this: I was a Shinn fan. Right from the start I liked his tragic past and general anit-hero like qualities. Ontop of that, in SEED Kira's character development was very unsubtle, infact is was pretty much forced down your throat. So at the very least I could hope for the same for Shinn, a character who I actually took a liking too, unlike Kira who I had found somewhat bland. Well that didn't work out for me, now did it? Instead it doesn't even keep Shinn as the main character all the way through, it switches back to the old cast who I had found to be increasinly annoying as Destiny progressed.
Actually that's the very reason I think Destiny failed ultimately as SEED's successor. But instead of making it a Gundam monster that some are trying to paint it I found a couple of things that I liked about it. Just as you liked ZZ.
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Old 2008-06-18, 14:08   Link #640
X207
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i have a quick question, when was kami-sama (kira) first knocked out by the 00 squad?
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