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Old 2006-01-08, 05:08   Link #61
FullMetalKid
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Bleach is Bleach and Naruto is Naruto. Never compare the 2 as they are both completely different. Ups and downs are in every anime. I say enjoy the good and the bad moments. As soon as a new series replaces either one of these later on, you would think that its not as good or compare that to something else. Creativity isn't an easy thing. If it were you be producing new anime series and everyone else be out of the job.
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Old 2006-01-08, 06:42   Link #62
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Think what you may think. Just watch and enjoy the show as it is. IF you don't like it, then don't watch it. Let's say that it lacks originality... So what then? If you enjoy watching it, then you enjoy watching it. Being creative or not doesn't really matter.
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Old 2006-01-08, 07:41   Link #63
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If you want to look into the roots of anime, then technically its alright to call all animes uncreative.

yes, I agree with the two above: If you like the anime: watch it. If you dont, then dont. Dont watch it and THEN bash it for being uncreative when you're the only person forcing yourself to watch.

Unless you are bonded to a chair and pointed with a gun to enjoy a series by a psycho (which is relatively impossible in context, especially if the series in question is an anime).
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Old 2006-01-08, 12:23   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Eclipze
The thing is this: the way you said things, you expect something else that didnt involved tennis in a tennis-shounen anime. Wtf?

Its really no different from saying that FMA isnt worth your time watching because the entire series is about alchemists. Or for another view, you stop watching soccer because its just X years of pure soccer. And you say its isnt worth watching because thats what they are suppose to show? I dont get what you are trying to say.

It is alot more sensible for people to say: "I dont like PoT because I think having an anime from a sport genre is stupid" than "I stopped watching the tennis anime because after 130+ episodes, it had nothing except tennis action".

Line #2 is a self-contradictory line. You expect something more from something that is suppose to only contain one element. Oh, lets give a naruto example then:
"I stopped watching naruto after XX episodes because it was XX episodes of pure ninja-related action".

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, so am I. I was defending one of my fav. animes, and thats wrong I suppose?

EDIT: Ah yes, found another one: "I've stopped watching Gundam (insert series) because after XX episodes, it had nothing except gundams".
Ahhh, sorry for not making my point clear enough.

Here's what I meant to say

"In the beginning of PoT, it was very interesting for me, but as I kept watching, it became more repetitve".

"I feel there is no point of watching Prince of Tennis anymore"

Also, please let me repeat what you did with my post.

Wtf!? Why is FMA all of a sudden dragged in here!? Geez! =P
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Old 2006-01-08, 13:14   Link #65
tjhan86
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The point of this thread is to argue, so sitting on the fence saying stuff like "Just watch both and make peace." isnt exactly the most productive right?

Naruto and Bleach are both shonen action, and well-made ones at that. These plus One Piece are probably the best shonen action out there for the past 2-3 years. Naruto's great for the greater depth of the fights excluding the protagonist's, while Bleach's plot twists and "cool" factor with the Zanpakutous and posing Captains draw in the fans.

Crap, I just sat on the fence. Now let me bash both by saying they could greatly be improved by adding deaths. Naruto seems to be moving towards a trend of killing off some of the side characters, while Renji should've died 2 years ago.

See, if you cannot anticipate when characters get killed, it just increases the thrill of battle. I KNOW that no matter how much blood Ichigo and Renji spills, even if it exceeds the total volume they had at first, they won't die. Granted, main characters don't die.. but surely Hinamori, Hitsugaya, Renji, Komamura shouldve been killed? Let's quote a positive example. Gantz, both anime and manga, you could feel the terror characters felt when a monster attacked. That was because a precedent was set, life in Gantz is fragile and even if you're the female lead, you could die for no particular reason. That made all the fights and battles tremendously thrilling. Compared to Renji and his "It's a good day to die" mode.

People were dissing HunterxHunter, but that series did have people dying by the truckloads. It's not like death = quality, but it does improve an ACTION series. Besides, HxH fights are handsdown the best in shonen. Anyone who thinks Naruto fights are "tactical" or "strategic" had better watch some HxH quick before they get egg on their faces. A very early example would be Gon practising his fishing skills, to prepare for the AMBUSH on Hisoka. Yes, in real battles, people practise and drill their skills, anticipate moves and plan. And that's not even a good example, cos there are tonnes of other situations where strategy was needed in HxH.

I'll end off by thanking Bleach, Naruto, OP, HxH for not being the rubbish that are Getbackers, Kyo and Rave. The latter few are the typical shonen junk that has all the negative elements that all of you mentioned that are present in shonen.
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Old 2006-01-09, 00:31   Link #66
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Originally Posted by tjhan86
Crap, I just sat on the fence. Now let me bash both by saying they could greatly be improved by adding deaths. Naruto seems to be moving towards a trend of killing off some of the side characters, while Renji should've died 2 years ago.
Indeed. The possibility of death adds a tremendous edge of tension. That simple fact turned Mai-HiME into a show where I was on the edge of my seat with every single fight. I knew that anytime that they fought, someone might DIE. The show would have lost a lot of punch without it.

Heck, the feeling of inevitable death is pretty much the whole driving power of Basilisk. Without that, it would be just another Romeo and Juliette rip-off. Fear of death turns it into a truly remarkable anime.

Both Bleach and Naruto would have a lot more tension if you were worried about someone's death whenever there was a fight. Right now, you just can't feel scared because you know that they will simply get psyched until someone is too tired to continue fighting while he lies in a puddle of cranberry juice.
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Old 2006-01-09, 01:40   Link #67
Mr. DJ
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Originally Posted by Arti
Yeah, I called Bleach fights one dimensional. They're just powerups and once you see a character's shikai and bankai, it's not as captivating anymore (which is why I didn't like Renji vs Ichigo part 2 because nothing new was shown. Just some "ARGH, SOUL POWERUP!" action).
yeah and once Naruto uses Rasengan it's all over...lets see just about every non important fight its been Kage bushin no jutsu, Naruto Rendan...yeah, that's so not one dimensional oh, pretty much every major fight Naruto had involved some sort of power up...so yeah

Bleach fights > Naruto fights
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Old 2006-01-09, 07:58   Link #68
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Originally Posted by DjTrizz
yeah and once Naruto uses Rasengan it's all over...lets see just about every non important fight its been Kage bushin no jutsu, Naruto Rendan...yeah, that's so not one dimensional oh, pretty much every major fight Naruto had involved some sort of power up...so yeah

Bleach fights > Naruto fights
You should had realised by now that using only Naruto's (the character) fight as a comparision to Bleach (title of anime) fights is a stupid thing to do.

Trying using a better example with Rock Lee, Neji, Garaa, Kakashi, NOT Naruto.

Hell, If you want to compare using Naruto (the character), then compare Naruto to Ichigo's fight, who people have agreed that the standard of "power-up" is pretty much the same between the 2 main male leads.
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Old 2006-01-09, 08:09   Link #69
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Originally Posted by acidflower
Ahhh, sorry for not making my point clear enough.

Here's what I meant to say

"In the beginning of PoT, it was very interesting for me, but as I kept watching, it became more repetitve".

"I feel there is no point of watching Prince of Tennis anymore"

Also, please let me repeat what you did with my post.

Wtf!? Why is FMA all of a sudden dragged in here!? Geez! =P
Wait, are you trying to say that a shounen anime ISNT repetitive?

Good guys fight bad guys. In most cases, the bad guy loses, and then turns good. (classic naruto example: Garaa and gang).

After that, more bad guys come. If they belong to the group of extreem evils that are not evil for the sake of "revenge" but "power", then the good guys would kill them.

Or, somehow they have a "fight to the death" but the good guys never die (example from Naruto again: the Sasuke rescue arc).

PoT is about tennis. Someone will Always be playing tennis. Be it in a competition, or friendly game, or some "revenge" issue. Dont tell me you didnt expect that when you started to follow the anime?

Quite frankly, of all the matches in PoT shown in the anime, non of 2 matches are Identical (except for 1 match where it was INTENDED to be identical). Now, if you say the tennis action is what makes it repetitive, the same can be said for all action animes then.

Gundam - gundam vs grunt, another gundam or against a battle ship
Naruto - ninja vs ninja, or ninja vs group of ninja
Bleach - shinigami vs shinigami, shinigami vs people with special powers, sinigami vs hollows, people with special powers vs hollow.
FMA - alchemists vs bad guys.

Unless you're telling me that the scenes are reused in PoT like in GSD, then I wont blame you for using that as a reason to say that PoT is repetitive.

But wait, there are no reused scenes. So whats the "repetitive" arguement about?
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Old 2006-01-09, 23:57   Link #70
acidflower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Wait, are you trying to say that a shounen anime ISNT repetitive?

Good guys fight bad guys. In most cases, the bad guy loses, and then turns good. (classic naruto example: Garaa and gang).

After that, more bad guys come. If they belong to the group of extreem evils that are not evil for the sake of "revenge" but "power", then the good guys would kill them.

Or, somehow they have a "fight to the death" but the good guys never die (example from Naruto again: the Sasuke rescue arc).

PoT is about tennis. Someone will Always be playing tennis. Be it in a competition, or friendly game, or some "revenge" issue. Dont tell me you didnt expect that when you started to follow the anime?

Quite frankly, of all the matches in PoT shown in the anime, non of 2 matches are Identical (except for 1 match where it was INTENDED to be identical). Now, if you say the tennis action is what makes it repetitive, the same can be said for all action animes then.

Gundam - gundam vs grunt, another gundam or against a battle ship
Naruto - ninja vs ninja, or ninja vs group of ninja
Bleach - shinigami vs shinigami, shinigami vs people with special powers, sinigami vs hollows, people with special powers vs hollow.
FMA - alchemists vs bad guys.

Unless you're telling me that the scenes are reused in PoT like in GSD, then I wont blame you for using that as a reason to say that PoT is repetitive.

But wait, there are no reused scenes. So whats the "repetitive" arguement about?
Why repetive, I mean watching a ball hit back and forth.

But anyways, I think this argument between you and me have gotten off topic.

Originally, I was just saying that the excitement of tennis only goes so far (for me).

Also, no, I believe shounen animes aren't always repetitive. Although its the same concept, the oppenents are different, therefore, making it more interesting. Which yes, also can be applied to tennis. But then, with tennis, you can't suddenly summon some random animals (well technically you could, but thats besides the point that any sane mangaka would do), so I'm just saying that Naruto does have more room to be creative than Bleach. I guess...

So, I'm just going to say, sure, PoT is exciting and fun to watch! Its a thrilling ride for me and I enjoy watching it!

But on a side note, (this happened in real tennis btw), during a tennis match between two players, apparently one of the tennis players was serving, but at the same time, a bird was flying nearby, which resulted in the ball hitting the bird. After, some guy walked over to see if the bird was ok, but then I guess it wasn't becauase the guy made the crossy motion when someone dies.
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Old 2006-01-10, 10:50   Link #71
Eclipze
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Originally Posted by acidflower
Why repetive, I mean watching a ball hit back and forth.

But anyways, I think this argument between you and me have gotten off topic.

Originally, I was just saying that the excitement of tennis only goes so far (for me).

Also, no, I believe shounen animes aren't always repetitive. Although its the same concept, the oppenents are different, therefore, making it more interesting. Which yes, also can be applied to tennis. But then, with tennis, you can't suddenly summon some random animals (well technically you could, but thats besides the point that any sane mangaka would do), so I'm just saying that Naruto does have more room to be creative than Bleach. I guess...

So, I'm just going to say, sure, PoT is exciting and fun to watch! Its a thrilling ride for me and I enjoy watching it!

But on a side note, (this happened in real tennis btw), during a tennis match between two players, apparently one of the tennis players was serving, but at the same time, a bird was flying nearby, which resulted in the ball hitting the bird. After, some guy walked over to see if the bird was ok, but then I guess it wasn't becauase the guy made the crossy motion when someone dies.
It was off-topic to begin with

Its a good point (finally) that its repetitive because the tennis ball is hit back and forth. But isnt it applicable to Bleach/Naruto as well?

Bleach - I cut you, you cut me! (or reworded to cutting each other back and forth)
Naruto - exchange of jutsus back and forth (I shall do rasengan, you shall return the favour with another jutsu, which just so happens to be chidori)

I would think its also because of the fact that tennis is something thats not as imaginative (In terms on how much a person would be able to imagine with it) compared to jutsus or sword-fights With Skills And Power-Ups.

Since both jutsus and sword fights WSAPU dont exist in real life, it would make for a more appealing factor for people who watch shounen animes. Also, there is no bounds as to how jutsus or sword fights WSAPU are suppose to be, compared to tennis (a sports that involves a ball, 2 rackets, 2 players and a court on most occasions excluding doubles) that has a set "example" of how it works. A Mangaka can only be this imaginative with something that exists in real life.
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Old 2006-01-11, 01:25   Link #72
ILoveGin_Jia
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I think bleach's Cartoonist 久保带人not very creative.
anyway..This kind of plot in Chinese, Japanese unusual common
But we cannot help but like Bleach actually
ぁぁ...说也奇怪呢ÖÖ
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Old 2006-01-11, 14:08   Link #73
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i would say that Bleach is not yet able to be compared to Naruto,

okay Naruto is much further in Episode, that also means that more things that happen over time has come to surface

if you compare Bleach manga to the anime series of Naruto i would say Bleach is much more creative, for the next season thats becomming animated is verry interesting and makes things more thrilled

the only thing that bothers me sometimes is collor use, but that doesnt mean things arent creative in story

Bleach still needs to develope in story so that the things that are already at work in Naruto such as character development etc. can also happen in Bleach
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Old 2006-01-11, 14:21   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -KarumA-
i would say that Bleach is not yet able to be compared to Naruto,

okay Naruto is much further in Episode, that also means that more things that happen over time has come to surface

if you compare Bleach manga to the anime series of Naruto i would say Bleach is much more creative, for the next season thats becomming animated is verry interesting and makes things more thrilled

the only thing that bothers me sometimes is collor use, but that doesnt mean things arent creative in story

Bleach still needs to develope in story so that the things that are already at work in Naruto such as character development etc. can also happen in Bleach
I would say there were a few things that are comparable in naruto and bleach, e.g. ichigo's fierce determination to become strong similarily naruto's dream to become hokage....unless i am wrong?
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Old 2006-01-11, 15:52   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Hiko Seijuro
I would say there were a few things that are comparable in naruto and bleach, e.g. ichigo's fierce determination to become strong similarily naruto's dream to become hokage....unless i am wrong?
I think you are pretty right... It could even be similar to Rock Lee.. Never give up no matter what .

Anyway, For sure when you watch many anime you always end up seeing similar character or story.
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Old 2006-01-11, 16:37   Link #76
Mr. DJ
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Originally Posted by Eclipze
You should had realised by now that using only Naruto's (the character) fight as a comparision to Bleach (title of anime) fights is a stupid thing to do.

Trying using a better example with Rock Lee, Neji, Garaa, Kakashi, NOT Naruto.

Hell, If you want to compare using Naruto (the character), then compare Naruto to Ichigo's fight, who people have agreed that the standard of "power-up" is pretty much the same between the 2 main male leads.
okay okay, stop yelling at me! *cries in corner*

Neji...everytime it's pretty much the same thing, Byakugan and Gentle(Heavenly?) Fist, only in two of his big fights he has had he used his 360 defense move, which is still cool to see...

Rock Lee...he's actually a good fighter w/ various fighting Taijutsu, Drunk Lee is better ;D

Garaa...various sand techniques, so he's not very linear

Kakashi...various techniques as well, though he doesn't get as much screen time anymore *dammit all...* Chidori is always cool to see...but dammit I want to see him win using a different move sometimes, and yes...I know it's his finisher, I know it's the same w/ Naruto, but dammit, he's reduntant and rarely learns new moves or uses different fighting techniques -_-

Naruto is just the most linear character ever...almost as much as the entire series of YuGiOh/GX o_O

Quote:
I would say there were a few things that are comparable in naruto and bleach, e.g. ichigo's fierce determination to become strong similarily naruto's dream to become hokage....unless i am wrong?
well...Naruto wants to become the strongest and be acknowledged by the whole village by becoming Hokage

Ichigo wants to just protect his friends and family, he doesn't really have any other motivation. If becoming stronger is part of the process, then so be it, but his objective still remains. (Kenpachi is the one who wants to become stronger than he currently is)

similar motives, but different objectives.

the motive and objective is subject to change but will eventually fall back to what the original was...as far as I know, Naruto's objective still hasn't changed, but he has a new objective to get Sasuke back, his motive is partly Sakura and the other is that he doesn't want Sasuke to become consumed by evil like Itachi or something like that.... Ichigo's current objective was to save Rukia, his motive was that he had a debt to repay to her, he has a new objective coming...not to sure how to say it yet cause I don't read the manga and haven't watched the new episode yet.

Last edited by Mr. DJ; 2006-01-11 at 16:56.
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Old 2006-01-11, 17:52   Link #77
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So? Isn't that just a standard convention of the genre? The hero always has a burning desire for "something" which he will use to overcome all odds. If you watch mahoushoujo, you expect to see little girls with sexy transformations and if you watch shounen you expect to see boys fight with their determination.

Examples: Bleach, Naruto, Saint Seiya, Flame of Recca, Hunter x Hunter...

Heck, all of them do this. It is certainly uncreative, but if you don't like it then why are you watching a genre that is built on this simple uncreative hook? If you don't like watching little girls transform to fight evil, don't watch anymore magical girl anime. And if you don't like watching bullheaded boys fight for their dreams, don't watch shounen fighting anime.
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Old 2006-01-11, 18:24   Link #78
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Whenever i watch an anime or read manga i always find myself thinking about how that particular episode or even certain words and sentences spoken reflects the certain artists intention ... or whomever was involved with the artpiece. In the case of bleach e.g. is it trying to tell us family plays a very important role in life? I think this is creative, however it does not get creative but rather tiring having to watch 20+ episodes of ichigo trying to save rukia.
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Old 2006-01-11, 20:53   Link #79
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Bleach is definitely stretching it length wise lately though.
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Old 2006-01-11, 22:50   Link #80
Eclipze
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Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
So? Isn't that just a standard convention of the genre? The hero always has a burning desire for "something" which he will use to overcome all odds. If you watch mahoushoujo, you expect to see little girls with sexy transformations and if you watch shounen you expect to see boys fight with their determination.

Examples: Bleach, Naruto, Saint Seiya, Flame of Recca, Hunter x Hunter...

Heck, all of them do this. It is certainly uncreative, but if you don't like it then why are you watching a genre that is built on this simple uncreative hook? If you don't like watching little girls transform to fight evil, don't watch anymore magical girl anime. And if you don't like watching bullheaded boys fight for their dreams, don't watch shounen fighting anime.
Quoted for truth. (*gives a cookie*)
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