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Old 2011-10-31, 12:19   Link #2101
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winter45 View Post
@wm4

Kira is fortunate that his faction has won the war... with his sister leader of orb and his girlfriend with political influence with zaft this will help kira position with those respective nations. Which really is his real saving grace.

As to Blue cosmos and their pet countries doesn't matter, kira will still be hated by the fact that he is a co-ordinator.
Not to mention just simple ire for him screwing with their plans in one way or another which only makes him look like, in their eyes, any other enemy Coordinator.

Kira may not have been a "normal" civilian in SEED Destiny for most of the time, but he was still a civilian nonetheless in the eyes of military law and such. As mentioned, he really will just gets special treatment due to his (future) connections through Cagalli and Lacus.
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Old 2011-10-31, 18:43   Link #2102
kaito-kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winter45 View Post
then kira causes secondary explosion
?? I just re watched that episode.(God! Destiny has awesome music!) Kira didn't cause that explosion inside Dstroy's cockpit that made Stella go nuts.. it just happed. (it's kind of funny, cos that little explosion caused pretty much everything what happened in Destiny afterwards.. talk about a plot device)

I don't really understand how you can blame everything on Kira.

Edit: WOWW.. I'm getting bombarded with bad rap's for this comment. Hate fact's much!?
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Old 2011-10-31, 20:58   Link #2103
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
?? I just re watched that episode.(God! Destiny has awesome music!) Kira didn't cause that explosion inside Dstroy's cockpit that made Stella go nuts.. it just happed. (it's kind of funny, cos that little explosion caused pretty much everything what happened in Destiny afterwards.. talk about a plot device)

I don't really understand how you can blame everything on Kira.

Edit: WOWW.. I'm getting bombarded with bad rap's for this comment. Hate fact's much!?
Getting bad rep for defending Kira...Hmmm, interesting turn of events..Only took 6 years...
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Old 2011-10-31, 21:14   Link #2104
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@ kaito kid.. are you serious??? Did you blatantly missed the scene when kira shoves a beam sabre into DESTROY chest and then a 2nd one a second later into the charging up chest weapon? Which caused an explosion that caused a chain reaction that ultimately destroys the DESTROY????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0qR0iac1m8

Fast forward to 7:20 and watch the rest.

I doubt very much if kira didnt shove both his beam sabres that the DESTROY was going to blow itself up.


How am i blaming kira when in FACT he did lay the final blow which resulted in stellas death? Im just throwing in the facts that is supported by onscreen footage nothing more


As for neg reps.. i feel for ya man.... ive been receiving neg reps from my 2 previous posts. Must been doing my usual p***ing off alot of kira cultists...

Last edited by winter45; 2011-11-01 at 00:42. Reason: done with editing
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Old 2011-11-01, 03:56   Link #2105
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Yes Kira killed Stella, the whole point was that her death was a tragic event. Kira has to kill Stella because she's rampaging, and completely mentally unstable. It's actually a really well done scene, and that doesn't make Kira some monster.

Kira's status is a soldier within Terminal, when Cagalli became head of Orb the Archangel was re-instated into Orb, and Orb joined Terminal.

I turned off reps for a reason.
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Old 2011-11-01, 07:11   Link #2106
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Sorry for butting in but, I believe Kira didn't killed Stellar intentionally or even have plans to kill her... Kira's aim was to disable the pilot, to knock the pilot out. I also want to emphaze the fact (in my observation) Stellar in already in the edge of mental collapse. Kira did what must be done.

In Shins well, he fought as act of revenge against orb. He has blinded himself of hatred for orb which later ends up hurting the people who really cares for him, like Lunamaria, her sister and Athrun.
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Old 2011-11-01, 07:25   Link #2107
winter45
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Just reading back a few pages and found no one has heavily suggested that kira is a monster/a$$hole etc....

So there isnt really any need to try to defend his actions. Or are peeps here afraid that kira rep is going to be tarnished or something? (given my neg reps here over a youtube video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by genjichan View Post
which later ends up hurting the people who really cares for him, like Lunamaria, her sister and Athrun.
You got a point with lunamaria, but with Athrun and sister.. well not sure if your aware but they were classified as traitors. Military law in most countries if traitors cannot be captured (which would be highly generous during war), kill on sight unless ordered otherwise. So which comes down to that shinns actions are justified given that he serves ZAFT military. So pls refrain that shinn is obligated to bend rules and orders when dealing with traitors, it just doesnt work like that.

Last edited by winter45; 2011-11-01 at 08:03.
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Old 2011-11-01, 07:28   Link #2108
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I'm a fan of Kira... he's actually second for me after Heero. They are both noble in their actions at the mid and later parts.
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Old 2011-11-01, 09:22   Link #2109
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I'm gonna go ahead and throw in my 2 cents about Kira I think he did intend to kill Stella because he didn't see any other way of stopping that thing and it was killing entire cities. Also guys this isn't the first person Kira has killed since he supposedly stopped killing he killed Rau Le Creuset at the end of Seed although now I suppose we will get the rather lame justiification from the Kirs fanboys that clones don't really count as people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by winter45 View Post
You got a point with lunamaria, but with Athrun and sister.. well not sure if your aware but they were classified as traitors. Military law in most countries if traitors cannot be captured (which would be highly generous during war), kill on sight unless ordered otherwise. So which comes down to that shinns actions are justified given that he serves ZAFT military. So pls refrain that shinn is obligated to bend rules and orders when dealing with traitors, it just doesnt work like that.
Well Winter you're right about the military law thing but they were also given direct orders to shoot them down. Also I think we need to look at who Meyrin hawke was she was the communications controller, an intelligence expert and a decent a hacker in other words Meyrin going rogue would pose a big security risk.
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Old 2011-11-01, 10:07   Link #2110
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Im being very careful how i tread.... to prevent fanboy Delusional remarks.


I can go so much deeper with protocol and law that can easily relate to said party's, but wont do much justice when i can safely say most people wont see where im coming from and will lead to another endless cycle of useless debate.

Last edited by winter45; 2011-11-01 at 10:23.
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Old 2011-11-01, 10:45   Link #2111
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Imo, Kira killed Stella. BUT, his intention was stopping the Destroy. Killing the pilot was definitely not his goal, but it happened. I know he didn't wan't to kill people again, but he did. He even would had killed Gilbert with a pistol if it wasn't for Rey. I guess he's more trying to kill as few people as possible opposed to never killing again, just to stop the fighting.

My english is not the best, so I usually try to stay away from discussions as these, but I wan't to contribute to this topic.
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Old 2011-11-01, 12:19   Link #2112
GundamFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winter45 View Post
Im being very careful how i tread.... to prevent fanboy Delusional remarks.


I can go so much deeper with protocol and law that can easily relate to said party's, but wont do much justice when i can safely say most people wont see where im coming from and will lead to another endless cycle of useless debate.
Fair enough I'm just trying to point out this wasn't just some crazed reaction by Shinn and also he was conflicted over how to handle it and he did try to get them to surrender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrikeFreedomV2 View Post
Imo, Kira killed Stella. BUT, his intention was stopping the Destroy. Killing the pilot was definitely not his goal, but it happened. I know he didn't wan't to kill people again, but he did. He even would had killed Gilbert with a pistol if it wasn't for Rey. I guess he's more trying to kill as few people as possible opposed to never killing again, just to stop the fighting.
At the very least Kira had to realize the only probable outcome was Stella's death from that move he did cause to large energy cannons overload that were located right above her. Plus there was the look on his face right afterwards he was sad but it's not like he was shocked or anything to indicate the explosion was larger then expected.
I agree that Kira was resolved to kill as few as possible rather then never to kill again.
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Old 2011-11-01, 12:26   Link #2113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan View Post
At the very least Kira had to realize the only probable outcome was Stella's death from that move he did cause to large energy cannons overload that were located right above her. Plus there was the look on his face right afterwards he was sad but it's not like he was shocked or anything to indicate the explosion was larger then expected.
I agree that Kira was resolved to kill as few as possible rather then never to kill again.
That's what I was getting at. He didn't had another option to stop it.
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Old 2011-11-01, 19:21   Link #2114
kaito-kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winter45 View Post
@ kaito kid.. are you serious??? Did you blatantly missed the scene when kira shoves a beam sabre into DESTROY chest and then a 2nd one a second later into the charging up chest weapon? Which caused an explosion that caused a chain reaction that ultimately destroys the DESTROY????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0qR0iac1m8

Fast forward to 7:20 and watch the rest.

I doubt very much if kira didnt shove both his beam sabres that the DESTROY was going to blow itself up.


How am i blaming kira when in FACT he did lay the final blow which resulted in stellas death? Im just throwing in the facts that is supported by onscreen footage nothing more


As for neg reps.. i feel for ya man.... ive been receiving neg reps from my 2 previous posts. Must been doing my usual p***ing off alot of kira cultists...
I'm talking about 6:47, it looked like things were going to end peacefully (Stella was still going to die tho) until that little random explosion. from there she loses total control.

Kira definitely give her the final blow. I'm not denying that, if that's what you thought. In fact, I think he had all the right to ruthlessly kill her and Neo.(and kill Shinn for trying to stop him) should have killed her much earlier. When she started the mass killing, her fate was already decided.

what I meant with that last part of my post was that apparently you are blaming Kira for the things that happened after the Berlin massacre by the direct result of Stella's death.. or at least that's what I'm getting from your posts..


Quote:
Getting bad rep for defending Kira...Hmmm, interesting turn of events..Only took 6 years...
how things have changed.


Quote:
I turned off reps for a reason.
You can turn that Sh*t off!?!? HOW?! The rap system is just childish.. If you have something to say then just say it here or PM me.
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Old 2011-11-01, 19:45   Link #2115
Om Nerabdator
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wow i cant beleive everyone thinks GSD sucks?? its one of my all time fav series and Shin was awesome for laying the smackdown on that crybaby Kira from GS.

The best part about this series is freedom vs Impluse that was an epic fight

That ShinxLuna romance just came out of nowhere after he killed her sister, still i dont mind that since i love the couple
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Old 2011-11-01, 20:02   Link #2116
winter45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
what I meant with that last part of my post was that apparently you are blaming Kira for the things that happened after the Berlin massacre by the direct result of Stella's death.. or at least that's what I'm getting from your posts..
I understand now... im not blaming kira for his actions after stellas death at all. I do have probs with fakuda and team how they handled 2nd half of destiny that also reflected on kiras character (and main cast) but thats a different story altogether.

Most of my posts recently in regards in the topic of kira have been in a factual stance. But i had no intention of saying kira is monster/a$$hole... etc ive said my piece of him many years ago and I let it be.

Lastly ill say i do have probs with BOTH kira and shinn (more so with kira) on how they handled that situation with berlin battle but understandably kira fans will take it that im specifically trying to single kira out.

Hope this clears this up.


@matty543
Yes definitely kira vs shinn fight was certainly one of the best highlights in Destiny, and in SEED verse.
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Old 2011-11-01, 20:46   Link #2117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matty543 View Post
wow i cant beleive everyone thinks GSD sucks?? its one of my all time fav series and Shin was awesome for laying the smackdown on that crybaby Kira from GS.

The best part about this series is freedom vs Impluse that was an epic fight

That ShinxLuna romance just came out of nowhere after he killed her sister, still i dont mind that since i love the couple
For a lot of people, not that this applies to every one of those people, but a lot of them is because Wing is how they first started out becoming fans of the "Gundam" franchise, being the first one to air on regular television on Toonami, so end up believing that that is the "standard" Gundam formula while not thinking a whole lot of the older series' because of "bad animation" in comparison or the MS don't seem as powerful or flashy and so on, being so used to Wing's "true" super-robot standards, which SEED and SEED Destiny took with modern animation plus being more "with the times" by making it far more shonen-based more so than "Gundam"-based, which 00 also did (but at least improved a bit on plot/character development, if only slightly).

Shonen-based (and "true" super robot for some) usually involving making the characters (usually the boys) very "pretty" (or the girls busty and such, lol), quite a bit of plot armor for the main character(s), pretty one-sided battles in the main character(s) favor outside of an excuse to give a character(s) a better Gundam, not so much focus on plot/character development over flashy MS battles, regardless of any impracticalities the MS may have, and so on. It's much more based on cool factor than "realism".

For those who grew up with, or at least are more interested in the Universal Century (like me, but not to the point of fanaticism and such), it's no surprise that Wing, SEED, SEED Destiny, and a bit of 00 (not all of it) were actually low points in the Gundam franchise BECAUSE of such things. Universal Century was much more on fleshed out characters, plot/character development, good, but still balanced MS and MS battles, even when the main character(s) were involved, the horrors of war, and so on.

Yes, there were some "true" super robot elements at various points (bio-sensor, psyco-frame, etc), but overall, it was a lot more about the "realism" of it that made it so enjoyable. A main character(s), even those that were liked, actually died "randomly" simply because that's how war is, there were very real consequences for a character(s) actions, things didn't work out so often for a main character(s), and so on.


The biggest mistake SEED Destiny did was shifting the spotlight off of Shinn and back onto Kira because of, from what I've read, SEED Destiny's lower popularity because of Shinn being the new main character, so rather than getting a new protagonist that actually looked like he'd be one to grow and develop based off a terrible past tragedy, we get a criss-crossing, psychologically-breaking, pro/antagonist lapdog in the end while SEED recycles itself...the series had a lot of potential that was utterly ruined by horrid execution and choices by writers and the director...

I'm hoping Gundam AGE doesn't end up going down the same route as, with just 4 episodes in, I'm already enjoying it far more than Wing, SEED, and SEED Destiny COMBINED. If it keeps going the way it is, I'll end up adding it to my list of liked AUs alongside G Gundam, Gundam X, and Turn A Gundam.
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Old 2011-11-01, 21:03   Link #2118
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Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
The biggest mistake SEED Destiny did was shifting the spotlight off of Shinn and back onto Kira because of, from what I've read, SEED Destiny's lower popularity because of Shinn being the new main character, so rather than getting a new protagonist that actually looked like he'd be one to grow and develop based off a terrible past tragedy, we get a criss-crossing, psychologically-breaking, pro/antagonist lapdog in the end while SEED recycles itself...the series had a lot of potential that was utterly ruined by horrid execution and choices by writers and the director...
Actually, if you go back to the spoiler threads for Destiny (though I think they might have gotten wiped in that great Animesuki hack of 2005), the spotlight shift was always intended... It was leaked early on via the usual spoilers that the series would be divided into thirds, first focusing on Athrun, second Shinn, third Kira. That came out IIRC around the time Ep 15-20 was airing, so its not like they could have changed much. (and heck that would make GSD a precursor to AGE's three main character thing too!)

Based on various leaked spoilers, as well as Fukuda/Morosawa's interviews after the show ended, Shinn was always intended to be a tragic character of sorts (keep in mind the show came out around the same time as Star Wars Ep 3). And quite frankly they could have grown and develop him into a "good" guy, but that would make him like every other foe-turned-friend character in Gundam, heck, in anime in general. So I don't think him being in the good side would change opinion of the show much.

What they could have done was to do a better job with making him a sympathetic character (and they really did try - but Stella was just too crappy of a character to make most people care about her and Shinn's plotline). The show was plague by poor execution in general and I think that was its biggest downfall.
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Old 2011-11-01, 21:51   Link #2119
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Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
For a lot of people, not that this applies to every one of those people, but a lot of them is because Wing is how they first started out becoming fans of the "Gundam" franchise, being the first one to air on regular television on Toonami, so end up believing that that is the "standard" Gundam formula while not thinking a whole lot of the older series' because of "bad animation" in comparison or the MS don't seem as powerful or flashy and so on, being so used to Wing's "true" super-robot standards, which SEED and SEED Destiny took with modern animation plus being more "with the times" by making it far more shonen-based more so than "Gundam"-based, which 00 also did (but at least improved a bit on plot/character development, if only slightly).
I don't believe there is any standard Gundam formula, nor should there be. If there was, we would be stuck with UC MSG. (And yes, I'm saying that Zeta was a very different series to MSG.) And let's try not to confuse what shonen is. Every gundam series is shonen. I know you're not trying to be elitist about this, but it's that kind of attitude that are usually shared by such people.

The simple fact is that, in trying to always capture a wider (and often times younger) audience, it is the company that makes Gundam that tells us that Gundam cannot remain the same. Wether it be UC or CE or any other timelines, there would always be people who may want something else out of Gundam. And as long as the company tries to draw those audience in, they'll be the ones who indirectly decide what a true Gundam show is.
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Old 2011-11-01, 22:28   Link #2120
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I'm not saying the others AREN'T shonen to some degree (Judau definitely had it going on, lol), but just that Wing, SEED, SEED Destiny, and 00 definitely take it up a few notches...seeing Tieria dress as a totally convincing female sealed that deal, lol. And having things, for the most part, turn out nice and well for the main characters is up there too compared to other Gundam series'. As said, 00 fixed it a bit in that regard.

And as I said in other places, I don't "hate" everything about them. I still enjoyed a bunch of the MS/MA designs at least (a stretch for SEED Destiny though, given some of the less-original copycats/rehashes and all with the ZAKU, GOUF, DOM, Destroy, Murasame, Infinite Justice, Strike Freedom, Legend, etc) and the music is quite enjoyable too. Of course, like girls with the pretty boys, I also enjoyed watching some of the pretty girls too. lol

I will forever accept that they are still part of the Gundam franchise though. I've seen fanatics on the UC side pretty much declare that, in their minds, those series are not in their eyes x_x;;
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