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Old 2009-08-18, 19:14   Link #1421
monster
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Originally Posted by nchan View Post
What I don't get is why he behave that way. How is his viewpoint of changing the world in anyway shape by his life experience, like witnessing the death of his parents and sister? How did he come to that conclusion?
Initially, it wasn't so much changing the world as it is actively doing something to defend one's country. Shinn saw his family's death as a result of what could happen when you let your country be invaded, that's why he joined ZAFT. The events in GSD only served to strengthen his belief that war is bad, so Shinn was ready to listen to Dullindal who has a plan of stopping wars, and thus, changing the world for the better.
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It seems like Shinn is just a blind sheep. In CCA, Chars decides to play the ultimate bad guy because of certain things happening to him in the past, and unable to convince earth people to migrate to space, led him to reach his final resolution. Even if they initiate try to develop Shinn's character into a villain, they should at least develop him into one. I felt that they didn't. That's why Shinn character pisses me off, like Katijana from V gundam.
Except I don't believe Shinn was ever meant to be a villain in GSD. What happened with Char is different, Char comes off more like Dullindal when you think about how much they were willing to sacrifice to get what they want.
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Old 2009-08-19, 00:03   Link #1422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nchan
What I don't get is why he behave that way. How is his viewpoint of changing the world in anyway shape by his life experience, like witnessing the death of his parents and sister? How did he come to that conclusion?
Adding a little bit more to what monstert has said, Shinn didn't just have that viewpoint because he witnessed the death of his family. He initially joined ZAFT because he wanted to protect what he couldn't before. Then in the process, he met and lost Stellar due to war. That, I believe pushes him to fight even more.

Not to mention he was influenced by Rey's words, and the fact that Rey was a clone makes him believe even more that following Durandal's ideals would be the best ways of attaining peace.
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Old 2009-08-19, 05:55   Link #1423
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Originally Posted by monstert View Post
Except I don't believe Shinn was ever meant to be a villain in GSD. What happened with Char is different, Char comes off more like Dullindal when you think about how much they were willing to sacrifice to get what they want.
Char IS Dullindal. Hahahahaha
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Old 2009-08-19, 08:12   Link #1424
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Originally Posted by Paladinoras View Post
Char IS Dullindal. Hahahahaha
Except with an interest in powerful young boys rather than powerful young girls.

Cha cha cha!
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Old 2010-03-02, 03:54   Link #1425
Roloko vi Britannia
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the plot itself was horrible I only watched it for the characters event though there was hardly any development hopefully that will change in the movie
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Old 2010-03-02, 20:20   Link #1426
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the plot itself was horrible I only watched it for the characters event though there was hardly any development hopefully that will change in the movie
A movie at this point never going to happen.
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Old 2010-03-02, 20:45   Link #1427
Roloko vi Britannia
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A movie at this point never going to happen.
Well I can hope. Last I heard it was going to be released after the Gundam 00 movie, but I highly doubt that.....
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Old 2010-03-02, 22:35   Link #1428
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as much as i want a movie, i doubt any will be release.
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Old 2010-03-03, 03:11   Link #1429
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as much as i want a movie, i doubt any will be release.
Me persoanlly with the current Gundam projects already planned unicorn, 00 movie and an SD movie or series... its gonna be tight if they do plan in bringing out a SEED movie even with todays bad economy...
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Old 2010-04-26, 21:40   Link #1430
zeroexia
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To be honest, I think that Gundam Seed is more popular in Japan than Gundam 00. It's probably one of the most popular if not the most popular among the general public

Shinn was a pretty bad character and had a sister complex. I thin.

I myself originally watched Gundam 00 Season 1 First before Seed and thought that Seed would be inferior. Then I watched Seed and thought it was better.....then I watched Destiny... Pretty bad, seemed like a repeat of Seed. Then I watched 00 S2 and it was kind of good. I rewatched Destiny again.... and actually liked it better this time and started to not like 00. I started to see flaws in 00 and better qualities in Destiny.

I thought Kira would be returning as the hero at first but then saw Shinn and Athrun. I thought it was going to be Zeta with Athrun as Quattro and Shinn as a Kamille. But then Shinn turned out to be a raging crazy teenager. I started to wish Kira would come back and teach him the suffering Kira learned in Seed. When Kira finally came back and became the main character, I was happy to be honest. k they made Stella into Shinn's replacement for his sister and that's why he was so crazy about her. It makes sense to me at least. Shinn needed somebody to beat him utterly and make realize he was an idiot. The fact that he followed "Char Dullindal" and Rey was just part of his character. From the beginning of Destiny, everybody knows he has problems and because he can't fix it by himself he relied on others. The fact that he believed he avenged Stella's death by killing Kira and Athrun just made him more psycho, and he was only corrected by getting his ass beat down by Athrun and made crying by Kira's awesome "Words of Light" which somehow has an effect to beat everybody.

Shinn was a messed up kid who got spinned around by everybody. To me it was pretty realistic that he would become a "bad guy". Athrun told him that war wasn't about being a hero but Shinn killed everybody because he didn't know what else to do and everybody encouraged him. Char Dullindal and Rey both manipulated him into doing their work.

Athrun was messed up because he can't decide what's the right thing to do. He's not sure whether or not Char Dullindal was good or bad. Eventually he realizes that Char Dullindal had some inner motives and returns but most of the series he is ZAFT to be a mentor character to Shinn and because he can't make up his mind.

Kira was somewhat hard to relate to because of his acclaimed "god mode". When I rewatched Destiny, I tried to figure out this new Kira. What I find is that Kira at first has no idea like Athrun what the right thing to do is. However he knows that he has to try to end the war. The only thing is whether or not Char Dullindal is bad or not and Archangel and Lacus and him all wait and see for a while. When ORB goes to war, he brings Cagalli to try to persuade them not to fight but that he fails so he goes and beats up everybody so that they won't fight. Eventually of course he makes Shinn angry by "killing" Stella who somehow had no injuries and gets Freedom destroyed. He comes back with S.Freedom and basically kicks everybody's ass with Athrun.

For me I like Kira but some criticize him as being Kira "Jesus" Yamato because of his ideals but I think that Kira himself sticks with his ideals because he's already seen war and had everybody die around him while Shinn just kills everybody and Athrun can't make up his mind. He doesn't have much to go back on anyway, if he didn't have his ideals then what would he do? Join ZAFT?, retire again?

Destiny itself had a bad way of telling the story. The reused animation, the popularity of Seed itself, and the replacement of Shinn by Kira are probably the biggest reasons. However upon reinspecting the story, it isn't that bad. Actually to me better than 00 S1 and S2. However I think some things could have been changed to better the plot. One could be Kira could be using a regular mobile suit for a while and fighting the war like a regular soldier and showing not only he still has skills but he sees even more how bad war was and then he returns in full hero with S. Freedom. (reminds me of Amuro in Zeta) Shinn should never have beaten Kira because it inflated his own character. For a character like Shinn, beating a moral-oriented character is negative to his own development. Another would be the return of Mwu, he should have stayed dead him returning from nowhere was bad. I think it may have been a better twist if Neo was actually a clone of Mwu and everybody has to come to terms that isn't Mwu would be a major character development and justification. Another would be to have included Kira's feelings more in the first half of Destiny since we originally mostly just see raging Shinn and conflicted Athrun but only "god returning" Kira.

In the end, after reinspecting Destiny and trying to actually understand the characters, I liked it more than 00. I watched 00 S1 + S2 after Destiny again and found some of the characters lacking, especially Setsuna who becomes even more of "god mode" than Kira and the useless princess from that country who did nothing. The fact that 00 Raiser became so powered up beyond even S.Freedom to the point of teleportation, making Setsuna a "newtype", and somehow crafting the future of man kind ridiculous. Gundam is about the characters and how they make the world from the fires of war not a ridiculous Gundam. Even S. Freedom only worked because the 3 Ship Alliance knew what they were fighting for, the freedom of humanity and that it was supported by everybody else. Celestial Being was trying to end war but in the end 00 Gundam becomes the only reason they can do anything.

Destiny to me has 3 main characters. Shinn the raging kid who is troubled by his past and because of war becomes even more troubled and is only changed for the better by getting beat by Athrun his Quattro. Athrun who is conflicted on who's wrong and right until he realizes that Char Dullindal is not as a good as he originally thought and then returns to "good" and teaches Shinn the truth. Kira who vowed not fight anymore and returns because he can't stand leaving the world to hell again because he's been through it again. He stands firm on his beliefs after deciding that he needs to protect the world as best as he can and from him Athrun realizes what to do again and so Shinn is saved. Kira = > Athrun = > Shinn

My ranking of my Gundam Series that I've actually seen

MSG
CCA
SEED/DESTINY
Zeta
08th
X
00
G
Wing
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Old 2010-04-27, 00:02   Link #1431
Throne Zwei
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@zeroexia
Well first off, I'm just going to be blunt but there is no way in hell Destiny was better than 00 S2 or 00 in general. I mean really, Destiny was good in the beginning but after when Kira came back, it slowly came to the point where whenever Kira was there, he and the Archangel automatically became right no matter what was happening. The entire show became a mess and you are right, the ending was a complete SEED repeat.

Setsuna is not a "god" like entity because of 00-Raiser. The only reason why Kira earned his nickname "Jesus Yamato" was because he never ever got touched when he got Strike Freedom. That Gundam never lost an arm, a leg, any of its weapons, hell never even got his paint scratched. 00 got totally beaten by Reborns at the end of S2 and Reborns uses fake GN drives. Also, the quantizing ability only works if 00 is using Trans-Am but even after using it, he only speeds up its count down to its usage and remember, after Trans-Am the Gundam becomes 3 times weaker whereas Strike Freedom who uses a nuclear engine, can constantly spam beams for eternity. And the 00 is not the only reason why Celestial Being can fight. We see many times that the 00 is bested by other pilots. The way you say it makes it seem that CB's reasons for fighting is solely only because of the 00. No, their reasons for getting this far in the end was because they knew that the world is corrupted because of them and they're obligated to fix it. Everyone on the Ptolemaios had their own reasons to fight, like Lyle wanting to defeat the Innovators because he lost Anew, Allelujah wanted to fight so that super soldiers are no longer needed or created again and etc. Just having the 00 was an advantage for them but that doesn't make it totally invincible unlike the Strike Freedom.

Strike Freedom is still the most overpowered Gundam in existence and not 00-Raiser. And before people start saying, "oh what about God Gundam, or Wing Zero, or 00-Raiser" no they each had their own rivals that were on par to the point where the only reason why they won was because those were protagonist Gundams. God Gundam had to struggle against many fighters and especially Master Gundam, Wing Zero was on the same level as Epyon, 00-Raiser was totaled by Reborns and therefore lost, but Strike Freedom got off without even a scratch. When a powerful Gundam is beaten or say have at least a damaged arm, it's no longer considered overpowered because something else can beat it. Nothing can beat Strike Freedom as proven in all of his fights. When you have something that has a flawless victory, it no longer becomes interesting because it's utterly predictable that Strike Freedom or 3 Ships Alliance having completely flawless victories.

Shinn's character became a waste at the end because all the development he accumulated went nowhere especially since now Kira and his band of super friends now are the spotlight. This was Shinn's show from the beginning and it should have stayed that way.

Kira was ok in SEED but his character went no where in Destiny. Not a single thing that happens to him that changes his character. The only reason why he jumped back into the Freedom was because people were trying to kill Lacus and that he thinks that Durandal was behind it even though there was no real connection or proof that he was the culprit. And whenever he shared a show with Shinn, he automatically became the good guy and Shinn was shafted further and became the lowly barking dog at the end of the series.

Athrun completely regressed and became this person who didn't know what to do at all. Throughout the course of the show, he just spun his wheels and just went long with whatever was happening and when it was convenient, he switches back to the 3 Ship Alliance.

To defend 00, the story for that series was more on track and it HAD a purpose which it concluded well at least in my opinion. Yes, the ending could have been better and things here and there too, but execution wise, it was more enjoyable than Destiny towards the end where we had nothing but clip shows, excessive flash backs of Nicol getting killed, Cagalli's dad getting overly burned to death again and again, and a pointless Meer Cambell 60% clip show which absolutely no relevance to the story. In 00, we all knew that Ribbons was the ultimate bad guy as established at the end of S1 and the beginning of S2 where as Destiny's bad guy just switches because they needed someone. They killed off Djibril too early and then needed Durandal to play the villain at the last minute which was a forced issue. Durandal wasn't even evil to begin with because that Destiny Plan he introduced, everything he saying up until then was right because the majority of the world agreed with him. Durandal never wanted to rule the world unlike Ribbons who was the mastermind behind A-Laws and everything that was happening in S2.

00 isn't the greatest Gundam series produced but it certainly was executed a lot better than Destiny. Had Destiny stuck with Shinn from the beginning, didn't totally change gears halfway through the show, actually used that wasted potential it has, i.e. Break the World, it would have turned out differently and perhaps for the better but no it didn't happen.
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Old 2010-04-27, 00:54   Link #1432
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Hmm.. sounds like a lot of the stuff you said above was from the Gundamn podcast and MAHQ.
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Old 2010-04-27, 00:57   Link #1433
zeroexia
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Originally Posted by Throne Zwei View Post
@zeroexia
Well first off, I'm just going to be blunt but there is no way in hell Destiny was better than 00 S2 or 00 in general. I mean really, Destiny was good in the beginning but after when Kira came back, it slowly came to the point where whenever Kira was there, he and the Archangel automatically became right no matter what was happening. The entire show became a mess and you are right, the ending was a complete SEED repeat.

Setsuna is not a "god" like entity because of 00-Raiser. The only reason why Kira earned his nickname "Jesus Yamato" was because he never ever got touched when he got Strike Freedom. That Gundam never lost an arm, a leg, any of its weapons, hell never even got his paint scratched. 00 got totally beaten by Reborns at the end of S2 and Reborns uses fake GN drives. Also, the quantizing ability only works if 00 is using Trans-Am but even after using it, he only speeds up its count down to its usage and remember, after Trans-Am the Gundam becomes 3 times weaker whereas Strike Freedom who uses a nuclear engine, can constantly spam beams for eternity. And the 00 is not the only reason why Celestial Being can fight. We see many times that the 00 is bested by other pilots. The way you say it makes it seem that CB's reasons for fighting is solely only because of the 00. No, their reasons for getting this far in the end was because they knew that the world is corrupted because of them and they're obligated to fix it. Everyone on the Ptolemaios had their own reasons to fight, like Lyle wanting to defeat the Innovators because he lost Anew, Allelujah wanted to fight so that super soldiers are no longer needed or created again and etc. Just having the 00 was an advantage for them but that doesn't make it totally invincible unlike the Strike Freedom.

Strike Freedom is still the most overpowered Gundam in existence and not 00-Raiser. And before people start saying, "oh what about God Gundam, or Wing Zero, or 00-Raiser" no they each had their own rivals that were on par to the point where the only reason why they won was because those were protagonist Gundams. God Gundam had to struggle against many fighters and especially Master Gundam, Wing Zero was on the same level as Epyon, 00-Raiser was totaled by Reborns and therefore lost, but Strike Freedom got off without even a scratch. When a powerful Gundam is beaten or say have at least a damaged arm, it's no longer considered overpowered because something else can beat it. Nothing can beat Strike Freedom as proven in all of his fights. When you have something that has a flawless victory, it no longer becomes interesting because it's utterly predictable that Strike Freedom or 3 Ships Alliance having completely flawless victories.

Shinn's character became a waste at the end because all the development he accumulated went nowhere especially since now Kira and his band of super friends now are the spotlight. This was Shinn's show from the beginning and it should have stayed that way.

Kira was ok in SEED but his character went no where in Destiny. Not a single thing that happens to him that changes his character. The only reason why he jumped back into the Freedom was because people were trying to kill Lacus and that he thinks that Durandal was behind it even though there was no real connection or proof that he was the culprit. And whenever he shared a show with Shinn, he automatically became the good guy and Shinn was shafted further and became the lowly barking dog at the end of the series.

Athrun completely regressed and became this person who didn't know what to do at all. Throughout the course of the show, he just spun his wheels and just went long with whatever was happening and when it was convenient, he switches back to the 3 Ship Alliance.

To defend 00, the story for that series was more on track and it HAD a purpose which it concluded well at least in my opinion. Yes, the ending could have been better and things here and there too, but execution wise, it was more enjoyable than Destiny towards the end where we had nothing but clip shows, excessive flash backs of Nicol getting killed, Cagalli's dad getting overly burned to death again and again, and a pointless Meer Cambell 60% clip show which absolutely no relevance to the story. In 00, we all knew that Ribbons was the ultimate bad guy as established at the end of S1 and the beginning of S2 where as Destiny's bad guy just switches because they needed someone. They killed off Djibril too early and then needed Durandal to play the villain at the last minute which was a forced issue. Durandal wasn't even evil to begin with because that Destiny Plan he introduced, everything he saying up until then was right because the majority of the world agreed with him. Durandal never wanted to rule the world unlike Ribbons who was the mastermind behind A-Laws and everything that was happening in S2.

00 isn't the greatest Gundam series produced but it certainly was executed a lot better than Destiny. Had Destiny stuck with Shinn from the beginning, didn't totally change gears halfway through the show, actually used that wasted potential it has, i.e. Break the World, it would have turned out differently and perhaps for the better but no it didn't happen.
Of Course, preference of series is based on opinion. I respect your opinion.
Well in general for me, the biggest flaws in Destiny was horrible repeating animation and horrible script.

The reasons Kira "Jesus" Yamato is called such are ability to not die even though aegis blew up in his face, got freedom stabbed by impulse, etc., not getting scratched in S.Freedom, and supposed absolute moral correctness.

For S. Freedom, the fact that the machine never got damaged was due to cheap animation they simply didn't want to depict any battle damage on S.Freedom or I.Justice or Akatsuki either because too lazy to have some battle damage look on it. In general in seed/destiny, mobile suits only look damaged when severely damaged. It makes some sense you if take with faith that Kira is supposed to be good enough not to get hit, so the arm, leg thing not get destroyed is somewhat justified. I mostly blame that fault on bad animation.

And i'm not saying CB was fighting only because of 00 gundam but they were only able to fight evenly because they had 00 gundam. Without 00 gundam their gundams would eventually be overpowered by the innovators increasingly better suits. I mostly attribute Ribbons able to damage 00 gundam due to Ribbons being a really good pilot perhaps better than setsuna( not sure about that) and Reborns gundam had trans-am twin drive too. And for Strike Freedom beam spam, i blame that entirely on cheap animation, they kept on using beam spam again and again. S. Freedom had more than enough weapons and power to not use beam spam or at least use the same animation again and again.

I say the reason S.Freedom seems overpowered is because Kira is overpowered. The machine itself is not at fault but the pilot. S.Freedom by itself does not have any abilities that would make it invincible but its S.Freedom piloted by Kira that does. Overpowered pilot true, but then again even Amuro was overpowering too.

And for Shinn, when i first saw Destiny and saw Shinn as a character i already knew he was going to get his ass kicked. He was so emotional unstable that he would do anything anybody told him and he did. Dullindal and Rey played on his feelings of wanting to end war and his own ego to make him "bad". Of course even before, he turned "bad", his violent tendencies were already showing with his angry rage and all when fought. When you have a character who fights angry all the time, you know he isn't going to be an inspiring figure, not that great a lead character. It's just that Destiny made Shinn go to the dark side and then get his ass kicked to wake him up.

And for Kira returning, well in the vast context of the story it makes sense that he would come back with his beliefs. Kira doesn't change because his beliefs stayed the same the entire time. Shinn and especially Athrun always had their beliefs flip-flop and were always confused, Kira wasn't so it seemed nothing happened to him but compare Kira of GSD and GS. In GS, Kira had emotional problems but wanted to protect the world after deciding to do so after being conflicted between protecting his friends in the EA and Athrun in ZAFT. In GSD he already knows what to do so he just keeps with it so he never changes but he is very different than GS Kira.

And Dullindal is the culprit, regardless of whether or not he tried to kill Lacus i believed he did since it would benefit him the most he is still the villain. From the very beginning, he was a fishy guy. A leader who talks of peace and yet has his military forces running around everywhere along with building new high tech gundams, etc He has a Meer, secret Gundams with nuclear powered, requiem, destiny plan which puts coordinators on top, etc the list goes on.
Regardless of whether or not Dullindal wanted to rule the world, he would destroy anybody who didn't agree with his plan. He swayed public opinion to him because he made it so with Meer and also because of the stupid EA persecution of people.

I agree that 00 had a better execution of its story and purpose because people knew what it was.

In Destiny, people had no idea at all and thought Shinn would be the main character. If Shinn was kept as the main character, perhaps it may be better but it would become a Zeta copy.

Destiny had originality in concept but horrible in script, animation and
execution.

The only reason i like Destiny better than 00 was because of story itself and the characters. Actually i think it would have been better as a novel.

When viewing Destiny, i think it would be better to think of the characters like this:

Shinn was never going to be the absolute only main character because he had too many faults for a hero and throughout the time you see him you see he has problems, other people make his problems worse and he is reduced to a dog of Char Dullindal. It makes sense if you think of Shinn as not a regular hero character but as character who is manipulated into becoming "evil" but get himself defeated by the wiser characters and resolves his problems.

Athrun was the mentor character to Shinn but conflicted on whether or not he should actually stay with ZAFT. He went because he wanted to protect the world just like what he and Kira decided in Seed but he eventually sees the horrors of war again and then suspects Dullindal of not being that great a good leader. When he discovers that Dullindal tried to kill Lacus and had a convenient Meer to replace her, he decides that Dullindal was not right and so tries to escape and join Kira and the others.

Kira was originally conflicted on whether or not he should fight. When people try to kill Lacus, he thinks something is wrong and tries to see what happens. He goes and tries to prevent battles because he didn't know what else to do. He couldn't just sit and wait for the world to continue in war. His belief in not siding with either EA or ZAFT made him the 3rd party and so he fought against both. He got reassured that he chose the right course when Dullindal turns out to be a leader who would oppress everybody to follow his own plan.

I think it would be better for people to not see Destiny as Shinn being the only main character and Kira coming in and stealing the spotlight but instead that Kira was supposed to come in like that. If there was no Kira, Destiny would just be Zeta remake because Shinn eventually would need to correct his ways and problems just the method would differ.

In destiny, getting defeated by his mentor athrun and kira after falling to evil did that.
In Zeta, Kamille got schooled by Quattro and the war itself but he wasn't himself a crazy character like Shinn to begin with.
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Old 2010-04-27, 01:46   Link #1434
Throne Zwei
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Originally Posted by Flame-X View Post
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Hmm.. sounds like a lot of the stuff you said above was from the Gundamn podcast and MAHQ.
A lot? Please. I'll admit I did listen to their podcast and they said things that I never thought of before but I agreed. Take for example, Break the World was actually a good story to expand on. I mean Stargazer used it but still it's opportunity was wasted as a whole. You can easily throw out those annoying clip shows with Break the World material.

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Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
For S. Freedom, the fact that the machine never got damaged was due to cheap animation they simply didn't want to depict any battle damage on S.Freedom or I.Justice or Akatsuki either because too lazy to have some battle damage look on it. In general in seed/destiny, mobile suits only look damaged when severely damaged. It makes some sense you if take with faith that Kira is supposed to be good enough not to get hit, so the arm, leg thing not get destroyed is somewhat justified. I mostly blame that fault on bad animation.
If it's due to laziness then that's just stupid but do you have proof that they were lazy to do so? Keeping the hero Gundams untouchable just because of laziness doesn't really dismiss the fact that Strike Freedom is still overpowered.

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Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
I say the reason S.Freedom seems overpowered is because Kira is overpowered. The machine itself is not at fault but the pilot. S.Freedom by itself does not have any abilities that would make it invincible but its S.Freedom piloted by Kira that does. Overpowered pilot true, but then again even Amuro was overpowering too.
Kira is not overpowered. If he was, Strike Rouge wouldn't be the pile of junk it is now. And Amuro isn't overpowered either. He was a trained soldier and a veteran of the OYW, Gryps Conflict, and now he fought against Char's Neo Zeon.

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Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
And Dullindal is the culprit, regardless of whether or not he tried to kill Lacus i believed he did since it would benefit him the most he is still the villain. From the very beginning, he was a fishy guy. A leader who talks of peace and yet has his military forces running around everywhere along with building new high tech gundams, etc He has a Meer, secret Gundams with nuclear powered, requiem, destiny plan which puts coordinators on top, etc the list goes on.
Regardless of whether or not Dullindal wanted to rule the world, he would destroy anybody who didn't agree with his plan. He swayed public opinion to him because he made it so with Meer and also because of the stupid EA persecution of people.
While it may seem he is by the point of view it was being portrayed, there was still never really any real proof he was behind the assassination attempt. And so what if he's building new MS and new Gundams, no nation would stop or halt developing new MS. It's just stupid to just stop because what if the other nation has better tech while you're still stuck with old crap? Take F91 for example, the Federation was doing terrible because they lacked better MS. Big and overhauled Jegans from 30 years ago just can't match the Crossbone Vanguard's smaller MS. Just because a leader is ordering production of new suits doesn't make them evil. At the end of Destiny, the only reason why Durandal was killing people was because like I said before, they needed a new villain because Djibril is dead. I mean when Djibril died, there were still about 5 episodes left.

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Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
Destiny had originality in concept but horrible in script, animation and
execution.
Actually SEED and SEED Destiny had elements from previous Gundam series. The first few SEED episodes were copied from the original Gundam, and Destiny pretty much copied SEED's beginning kinda went it's own way, then copied SEED's ending and it's starting feel was like Zeta. So Destiny doesn't have much originality to begin with.

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Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
Shinn was never going to be the absolute only main character because he had too many faults for a hero and throughout the time you see him you see he has problems, other people make his problems worse and he is reduced to a dog of Char Dullindal. It makes sense if you think of Shinn as not a regular hero character but as character who is manipulated into becoming "evil" but get himself defeated by the wiser characters and resolves his problems.
The only reason why Shinn's character sucks at the end was because the focus was taken away from him and given to Kira. Had the series stuck with Shinn throughout, we would have something like Kamille's character where he started angry and immature, to a well developed Newtype.

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Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
Kira was originally conflicted on whether or not he should fight. When people try to kill Lacus, he thinks something is wrong and tries to see what happens. He goes and tries to prevent battles because he didn't know what else to do. He couldn't just sit and wait for the world to continue in war. His belief in not siding with either EA or ZAFT made him the 3rd party and so he fought against both. He got reassured that he chose the right course when Dullindal turns out to be a leader who would oppress everybody to follow his own plan.
Again Durandal did not oppress anyone. Like I said before, everything he said up to the revealing of the Destiny plan, everyone agreed with him and liked his idea. Of course again since they needed a new villain to replace Djibril, it was just convenient to have Durandal as the villain because you're not gonna have Kira be the bad guy, or Orb, and the EA is pretty much dead. The way things work is, if people agree with you, you're right. Since Kira was already portrayed as the super hero, they're not gonna turn around and say otherwise.
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Old 2010-04-27, 05:22   Link #1435
Sanger Zonvolt
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Just to point out a fun fact, SEED actually had more flashbacks and recycled animation then Destiny.

Destiny was cheap in pulling animation from SEED though for DRAGOONS, METEOR, and Freedom saber slash for Strike Freedom.

Quote:
To be honest, I think that Gundam Seed is more popular in Japan than Gundam 00. It's probably one of the most popular if not the most popular among the general public
UC Gundam is actually the most popular in Japan.
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Old 2010-04-27, 05:31   Link #1436
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Originally Posted by Sanger Zonvolt View Post
Just to point out a fun fact, SEED actually had more flashbacks and recycled animation then Destiny.

Destiny was cheap in pulling animation from SEED though for DRAGOONS, METEOR, and Freedom saber slash for Strike Freedom.
wow that is a fun fact

Seeing the same moves done in the same way sure makes 4 boring fights for obvious reasons. Since we always knew what move kira was going to do next and how exactly he was going to pull it off. I like my gundam fights to have more variety when it comes to pulling off moves. It sure made him predictable, I even skipped the fight scenes so I can get to the romantic ones( no repeated scenes there haha).
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Old 2010-04-27, 05:49   Link #1437
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by Sanger Zonvolt View Post


UC Gundam is actually the most popular in Japan.
Uh you're sure about that ? No because all the poll on the magzine said the absolute contrary.

Anyway about the whole Kira "Jesus" Yamato, most of the time it's just bad faith from people who don't like him to begin with. People said that's Kira's fault for Shin bad development but in teh end the one who really stole development to Shin is Athrun not Kira. Actually, Athrun stole screentime for nothing when this screentime could be use for Shin.

Now, I don' t see the problem with Kira piloting Strike Freedom or whather ver you want. It's exactly the same for Athrun when he recieve the Infinte Justice (no for him, it's really bad because magically, he bceame good again ) but no one said anything about him.

And no Kira is not overpowered, he is just the best pilot of the CE univers as Amuro is the best for the UC. But I really wish that Kira pilot a Mobuilt Suit such as the Strike instead of one such as Strike Freedom.
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Old 2010-04-27, 05:59   Link #1438
Sanger Zonvolt
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Quote:
Uh you're sure about that ? No because all the poll on the magzine said the absolute contrary.
You do know Char is quite possibly the most popular fictional character in Japan right?

Char always ranks number 1 or in the top 3 popularity polls, rivaled by his own self, Quattro, who makes it into the list as well as a seperate character, in magazines like Gundam Ace, and Animage he was up there before.

UC also sells the most models of all Gundam series.

*cough*


That ain't no Strike Freedom.
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Old 2010-04-27, 06:06   Link #1439
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanger Zonvolt View Post

Char always ranks number 1 or in the top 3, rivaled by his own self, Quattro, who makes it into the list as well as a seperate character, in magazines like Gundam Ace and Animage.

UC also sells the most models of all Gundam series.
Please show me this because I know Gundam Ace poll and I know than Char Rank was under Kira's not a long time ago ?


Quote:


That ain't no Strike Freedom.
Yes and ?

UC Gundam is popular yes and the fact that's the first Gundam universe explain for example, why there is big gundam from this universe but it doesen't mean it's more popular than GS and GSD.

GS is a gundam which touched a larger fan base than the UC series so I think it's quite realistic to say that the CE universe is more popular than the UC one. By popularity, I mean people who like the serie and watch it.
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Old 2010-04-27, 06:30   Link #1440
Sanger Zonvolt
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Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Please show me this because I know Gundam Ace poll and I know than Char Rank was under Kira's not a long time ago ?
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...=26941&page=35

Here is the newest one I could find that someone posted here for Gundam Ace, Char is ranked 1# in 2008, and if I can find the 2009 one I recall he was 1# there as well.

and while Kira and Lacus are the passing fad, characters from over 30 years ago, Lalah Sune, Sayla Mass, Amuro Ray are still up there.



Quote:
UC Gundam is popular yes and the fact that's the first Gundam universe explain for example, why there is big gundam from this universe but it doesen't mean it's more popular than GS and GSD.

GS is a gundam which touched a larger fan base than the UC series so I think it's quite realistic to say that the CE universe is more popular than the UC one. By popularity, I mean people who like the serie and watch it.
So people don't like and watch UC now eh? You crazy.

Poor UC with it's 4 shows and 5 OVAs, and movies.
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