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Old 2010-04-29, 22:33   Link #1481
zeroexia
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Originally Posted by Sanger Zonvolt View Post
I think Destiny was not only harmful to Kira's character growth, but also as a pilot, an experienced pilot who fought in an entire war, he didn't showcase this skill in Destiny.

He sprinkled PIS fairy dust on his enemies, so they would hold still for him.

Going from someone who would think for himself at the end SEED, then taking away this development and turning him once again into a puppet, an extension of his girlfriend's will.

Actually I may have been fooled in SEED, and thought Kira was changing, but infact was just going to someone else to give him a purpose, instead of ever choosing his own reason for fighting, just fighting for the sake someone telling him to.

When I first saw Kira in Destiny, I thought he had finally matured into a stoic and mature pilot, much like Amuro in CCA, instead he was a self-righteous zombie, who might as well of been an emotionless android created for Lacus........oh wait.
To be honest, he showed some skill but not enough. I could tell he had better skills but they just kept on using recycled animation so it made him look bad. To be honest they should just remake all of his battle scenes.


And to be honest, Kira did feel a bit like that....which i blame on focusing too much character development of Shinn and Athrun but not enough on Kira. They should have had more development on Kira and Lacus.
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:40   Link #1482
Throne Zwei
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Originally Posted by monstert View Post
Like I said before, if you think that makes GSD, taken as a whole, an automatic failure for you, then that's fine by me. Although, it's good that now you give reasons for what makes you think GX is better than GSD.
I never said that Destiny sucked completely. I said in a previous post I believe that it started good in the beginning from the fast paced Gundam-jack to er... probably before Kira came in and interfered with ZAFT operations. Things like Break the World was actually an interesting plot to explore on and I think that if Destiny touched up on that, it would have made things a lot better. I said Destiny sucked at the end because that it just copied SEED's ending from the Battle of Orb, again, and another Genesis doomsday weapon.
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:40   Link #1483
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Quote:
He sprinkled PIS fairy dust on his enemies, so they would hold still for him.
Not to mention sucking in Strike Rouge.

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Going from someone who would think for himself at the end SEED, then taking away this development and turning him once again into a puppet, an extension of his girlfriend's will
Oh I won't count on it, I'd think Lacus got away with mindraep here. You'd have to take into account that:
-Lacus gives Kira Freedom, which is his 'sword', the same way Alice got hers from guess who? the White Queen?
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:44   Link #1484
zeroexia
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Originally Posted by Throne Zwei View Post
I never said that Destiny sucked completely. I said in a previous post I believe that it started good in the beginning from the fast paced Gundam-jack to er... probably before Kira came in and interfered with ZAFT operations. Things like Break the World was actually an interesting plot to explore on and I think that if Destiny touched up on that, it would have made things a lot better. I said Destiny sucked at the end because that it just copied SEED's ending from the Battle of Orb, again, and another Genesis doomsday weapon.
I completely agree with that. For me i had no problem with Kira returning, actually I welcomed that. What made Destiny suck was that from the destruction of Freedom on, it was Seed Pt2 repeat. They should have done something else for the final battles. I'm good with the conclusion to what happens to all the characters but not how they reached that point. And for Break the World, that should be expanded on other media like manga and other ovas similar to stargazer similar to UC and its one year war.
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:47   Link #1485
Throne Zwei
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Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
I completely agree with that. For me i had no problem with Kira returning, actually I welcomed that. What made Destiny suck was that from the destruction of Freedom on, it was Seed Pt2 repeat. They should have done something else for the final battles. I'm good with the conclusion to what happens to all the characters but not how they reached that point. And for Break the World, that should be expanded on other media like manga and other ovas similar to stargazer similar to UC and its one year war.
Actually having Destiny have a Break the World arc would have improved the overall series. Because we already have like 7 pointless clip shows and at least those could have been used for Break the World. It's fine if that plot is explored in say a manga or in an existing case, Stargazer, the problem is, Stargazer only covered it for 15 minutes which is hardly enough.
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:49   Link #1486
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
But seriously this was what I wanted to compound on. You would think Kira would learn his lesson with Fllay back then, yet you see him making the same mistakes he has done so many times in SEED.
The way I see it, the two lessons Kira learned in SEED were that you don't always need to kill all of your enemies to protect your friends (desert arc of SEED) and you can't always protect everyone (various parts in SEED and even DESTINY).

From those two things, I can understand Kira's actions in DESTINY. Of course, I don't agree with all of his actions. But Kira's not perfect, and that's fine with me.
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Originally Posted by Throne Zwei View Post
I never said that Destiny sucked completely. I said in a previous post I believe that it started good in the beginning from the fast paced Gundam-jack to er... probably before Kira came in and interfered with ZAFT operations. Things like Break the World was actually an interesting plot to explore on and I think that if Destiny touched up on that, it would have made things a lot better. I said Destiny sucked at the end because that it just copied SEED's ending from the Battle of Orb, again, and another Genesis doomsday weapon.
But you did say DESTINY was a failure. There's no other way around it. It either failed or it didn't, and different people have different answers for that.
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Not to mention sucking in Strike Rouge.
Strike Rouge sucking would be more accurate.
Quote:
Oh I won't count on it, I'd think Lacus got away with mindraep here. You'd have to take into account that:
-Lacus gives Kira Freedom, which is his 'sword', the same way Alice got hers from guess who? the White Queen?
So agreeing with someone and accepting their help means you're their slave now?
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:52   Link #1487
zeroexia
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Not to mention sucking in Strike Rouge.


Oh I won't count on it, I'd think Lacus got away with mindraep here. You'd have to take into account that:
-Lacus gives Kira Freedom, which is his 'sword', the same way Alice got hers from guess who? the White Queen?
To be honest i don't think he sucked in Strike Rouge at all. Here he is in a really old gundam from 2 years ago which in CE terms is like 20 years of UC technology development (maybe not some much but still huge tech gap).Like A GM vs A Jeagan He is able to disable a good number of mobile suits with better weapons and the Strike Rouge is only disabled when his own shield doesn't even stand up to a stronger grunt beam from a ZAKU when he's blocking the shot from hitting the Eternal. Besides being in a Gundam much inferior to what you've been using and where your piloting skills have already evolved to the point that it's hard to use, i can't say he did bad. It's like Newtype Amuro becoming better than his gundam so he has to improve the Gundam to match his reaction type otherwise he dies since he can't make it function probably for him.

Once you go up, it's hard to use a lesser suit not because you suck but because you're too good.
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:54   Link #1488
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Originally Posted by Throne Zwei View Post
Actually having Destiny have a Break the World arc would have improved the overall series. Because we already have like 7 pointless clip shows and at least those could have been used for Break the World. It's fine if that plot is explored in say a manga or in an existing case, Stargazer, the problem is, Stargazer only covered it for 15 minutes which is hardly enough.
That's true, should have shown how Break the World affected all the main characters. and for side stories, how it affected the general people and soldiers like in UC 1 year war side stories.
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:55   Link #1489
Sanger Zonvolt
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Originally Posted by zeroexia
To be honest, he showed some skill but not enough. I could tell he had better skills but they just kept on using recycled animation so it made him look bad. To be honest they should just remake all of his battle scenes.
All I ask is they retcon the entire last 10 episodes or so of Destiny, with a new movie that changes everything to something that was actually plausible with the characters they were presenting.

Final Plus did nothing other then showcase the 3 ships alliance as the completely justified side, and Shinn forgave Kira just like that. (Yeah sure....)

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Strike Rouge sucking would be more accurate.
Cause Strike Rogue is totally not a Gundam.
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:55   Link #1490
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Actually having Destiny have a Break the World arc would have improved the overall series. Because we already have like 7 pointless clip shows and at least those could have been used for Break the World. It's fine if that plot is explored in say a manga or in an existing case, Stargazer, the problem is, Stargazer only covered it for 15 minutes which is hardly enough.
I would've had Kira join during episode 30. and just having the assassination scenes against Lacus as flashbacks. Also, I would have Kira try to kill every one person who comes between him and Durandal.
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:59   Link #1491
zeroexia
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Originally Posted by Sanger Zonvolt View Post
All I ask is they retcon the entire last 10 episodes or so of Destiny, with a new movie that changes everything to something that was actually plausible with the characters they were presenting.

Final Plus did nothing other then showcase the 3 ships alliance as the completely justified side, and Shinn forgave Kira just like that. (Yeah sure....)
I agree. They should remake the last 10 episodes or so of destiny and better develop their characters. For the last episode, maybe Shinn should have just tried to beat up Kira at first when he saw him and then he cries and breaks down and asks what to do and everybody tells him to fight for the world and that replant flowers line from kira and this our fight line from Athrun.

I like the fates of the characters but not the way they reached the conclusion.

And Strike Rouge is a a gundam- thing made from spare parts. inferior in the first seed to begin with. And vastly inferior in Destiny. Like a a bi-plane vs a jetplane.
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Old 2010-04-29, 22:59   Link #1492
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Originally Posted by monstert View Post
But you did say DESTINY was a failure. There's no other way around it. It either failed or it didn't, and different people have different answers for that.
You claimed that I said everything about Destiny sucked. In the previous post, I mentioned what was good about it in general. Buy yeah my overall verdict is that it failed because of it's second half.
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Old 2010-04-29, 23:00   Link #1493
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So agreeing with someone and accepting their help means you're their slave now?
No, but doing things without thinking about its implications is proof that you've not learned anything. Kira doesn't think about how he can affect people's lives. He's helplessly lead to believe that what he's doing is right, without anyone disagreeing.
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Old 2010-04-29, 23:02   Link #1494
monster
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Originally Posted by Throne Zwei View Post
You claimed that I said everything about Destiny sucked.
No, I never claimed that.
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Buy yeah my overall verdict is that it failed ...
Yes, that's what I claimed.
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Old 2010-04-29, 23:02   Link #1495
zeroexia
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
I would've had Kira join during episode 30. and just having the assassination scenes against Lacus as flashbacks. Also, I would have Kira try to kill every one person who comes between him and Durandal.
Kira trying to kill everyone? pretty out of character. That would make him totally out of character and hated. And he probably would kill everybody considering how good they made him when he's angry in seed, imagine how good he is when angry in destiny along with his godly powers of RAGE.
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Old 2010-04-29, 23:04   Link #1496
zeroexia
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
No, but doing things without thinking about its implications is proof that you've not learned anything. Kira doesn't think about how he can affect people's lives. He's helplessly lead to believe that what he's doing is right, without anyone disagreeing.
actually i believe he's decided that what he's doing is right. he's gone through a war and wrecked his entire mind over what to do. that was the entire point of SEED. so he just carries that belief and resolve in DESTINY. His friends just share the same belief as him because they went through the same thing. Just that Athrun got lost abit.

He knows that he kills people but still tries not to. He's trying his best with what he can do.
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Old 2010-04-29, 23:05   Link #1497
monster
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
No, but doing things without thinking about its implications is proof that you've not learned anything. Kira doesn't think about how he can affect people's lives. He's helplessly lead to believe that what he's doing is right, without anyone disagreeing.
No, he actually questioned what he's doing. But because of what he learned in SEED, he knows now not to expect to have everything go his way. So he chose what he thinks is the lesser of two evils. His choice might not be right, but again, he's not perfect.
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Old 2010-04-29, 23:06   Link #1498
zeroexia
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No, he actually questioned what he's doing. But because of what he learned in SEED, he knows now not to have evrything go his way. So he chose what he thinks is the lesser of two evils. His choice might not be right, but again, he's not perfect.
I agree. He just follows what he learned in SEED. He can't leave the world alone and the only thing he can do is his interventions. To be honest, that's the best choice. Go with EA, kill ZAFT, go with ZAFT kill EA, go with nobody, DESTINY PLAN AND DEATH FOR ALL UNDER CHAR DULLINDAL'S RULE
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Old 2010-04-29, 23:10   Link #1499
Throne Zwei
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Why are you calling Durandal, Char Durandal? They two completely different characters with the only similarity being is the voice actor.
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Old 2010-04-29, 23:13   Link #1500
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So he chose what he thinks is the lesser of two evils. His choice might not be right, but again, he's not perfect.
So why doesn't Kira actually be responsible and be the chairman? Why isn't he the chairman, since you say he's the one who actually chose to defy Durandal?
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