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Old 2010-12-16, 09:56   Link #1901
CelestialNocturne
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Originally Posted by Thousand Mistress View Post
Agreeing in the third one. Well, seeing as it's based entirely from the previous series, we can't object to that one.
AND ONE MORE THING...Shinn is the main character! This is the sole reason GSD had failed! It would have been better if they didn't make a sequel...GSD ruined the entirety of Kira being a main character and SEED's original story.
No. The whole reason that Gundam SEED Destiny failed was because of the fact that Kira was remade into the main character. Shinn was to be the main character, and there weren't any problems with that until Kira reappeared. Only then did everything fall apart...
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Old 2010-12-16, 11:04   Link #1902
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Originally Posted by CelestialNocturne View Post
No. The whole reason that Gundam SEED Destiny failed was because of the fact that Kira was remade into the main character. Shinn was to be the main character, and there weren't any problems with that until Kira reappeared. Only then did everything fall apart...
And it's probably because, according to Japan's character polls, Shinn was popular, but not as high as Kira (who still is the most popular SEED character to this day), Athrun, Lacus, and Cagalli.
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Old 2010-12-16, 19:46   Link #1903
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Originally Posted by CelestialNocturne View Post
No. The whole reason that Gundam SEED Destiny failed was because of the fact that Kira was remade into the main character. Shinn was to be the main character, and there weren't any problems with that until Kira reappeared. Only then did everything fall apart...

The story started to fall apart around the time when Shinn went completely apeshit.. After Stella's arc and Freedom's destruction, Shinn stopped being the main character and Athrun, Lacus and Kira kinda took over and the focus shifted to there POV.

And kira never really became the main character, he wasn't all that important to the story (hence the absolute absence of any character development). Athuren and Lacus played a much bigger role than Kira.

Fukuda was simply trying to keep the ratings up by having Kira appear often since Shinn wasn't doing anything. So I wouldn't blame Kira for how Destiny turned out, It's like blaming Obama for the mess Bush left behind)
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Old 2010-12-16, 21:37   Link #1904
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Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
Fukuda was simply trying to keep the ratings up by having Kira appear often since Shinn wasn't doing anything. So I wouldn't blame Kira for how Destiny turned out, It's like blaming Obama for the mess Bush left behind)
Except Shinn isn't a real life character; he can't choose to do anything that appeases real life viewers or not. The fault does lie with Kira, in that Fukuda dumped Shinn's potential to focus on the character that fans liked more. Which is a bit contradictory; Kira is only popular because he was developed instead of left as some whiny character. Fukuda barely bothered to develop Shinn into a character that could draw in fans like he did with Kira in GSEED.
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Old 2010-12-16, 23:41   Link #1905
monster
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Except Shinn isn't a real life character; he can't choose to do anything that appeases real life viewers or not. The fault does lie with Kira, in that Fukuda dumped Shinn's potential to focus on the character that fans liked more.
The same thing with Kira, he can't choose whether or not to get any focus in Destiny. So the fault, if any, lies squarely on the makers of Destiny, not with some fictional character.

If you're not going to blame one fictional character because it's not a real life character, then don't blame any of them. Because they're all fictional characters.
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Old 2010-12-16, 23:46   Link #1906
blitz1/2
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Originally Posted by monstert View Post
The same thing with Kira, he can't choose whether or not to get any focus in Destiny. So the fault, if any, lies squarely on the makers of Destiny, not with some fictional character.

If you're not going to blame one fictional character because it's not a real life character, then don't blame any of them. Because they're all fictional characters.
That reminds me of the Hoshi Souchirou interview about how the other seiyuus criticise him about Kira and his response was, "what? It's not my fault!"
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Old 2010-12-17, 01:58   Link #1907
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Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
That reminds me of the Hoshi Souchirou interview about how the other seiyuus criticise him about Kira and his response was, "what? It's not my fault!"
Source, please?

If that was true, I guess that Fukuda/Morosawa really pissed off the VAs.

Speaking of Kira's VA, I read of a rumor that he cried when they were originally going to kill Kira off at the end of SEED. Just in case you forgot, according to a 2003 interview with Fukuda, Kira was originally going to be killed off, Athrun would lose one of his arms, and Flay was originally to be a human bomb and would destroy the Archangel.

Fukuda Interview report

Take it for what you will.

IMO, it's because of his popularity with the Japanese audience that Kira was kept alive.
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Old 2010-12-17, 02:46   Link #1908
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by monstert View Post
The same thing with Kira, he can't choose whether or not to get any focus in Destiny. So the fault, if any, lies squarely on the makers of Destiny, not with some fictional character.

If you're not going to blame one fictional character because it's not a real life character, then don't blame any of them. Because they're all fictional characters.
And you just totally and blatantly tried to warp my point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
The fault does lie with Kira, in that Fukuda dumped Shinn's potential to focus on the character that fans liked more.
You also cut out all of my post that talked about how Fukuda, not Kira, was to blame because he dumped Shinn's character development in favor of Kira.
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Which is a bit contradictory; Kira is only popular because he was developed instead of left as some whiny character. Fukuda barely bothered to develop Shinn into a character that could draw in fans like he did with Kira in GSEED.
Please don't do that.
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Old 2010-12-17, 02:54   Link #1909
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i'm pretty sure i've said it somewhere in the last 96 pages, but it was because Shinn was such an unlikeable character who the audience could not connect with. there was nothing redeeming about his character, and not only was he childish and annoying, he had the mental age of a 4 year old who had something he liked taken away from him. had they turned him into someone tastefully annoying and obsessed (like Setsuna, maybe) then his ratings might have been better.

and the story was also written so in the end, Shinn was technically standing for the "bad" side.
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Old 2010-12-17, 03:45   Link #1910
monster
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
And you just totally and blatantly tried to warp my point:You also cut out all of my post that talked about how Fukuda, not Kira, was to blame because he dumped Shinn's character development in favor of Kira.

Please don't do that.
I didn't warp anything. You still clearly said that "the fault does lie with Kira." The reason why I didn't bother quoting your whole post was because I had nothing to say about the rest of your post.

If you really meant not to place any blame on Kira, then just take my reply as simply to point out that you should choose your words carefully so as not to be misunderstod.
Quote:
The fault does lie with Kira Fukuda, in that he (Fukuda) dumped Shinn's potential to focus on the character (Kira) that fans liked more.
That would've been a more appropriate sentence if you really meant to place the blame solely on Fukuda, and not have some of it fall on Kira.
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Old 2010-12-17, 04:27   Link #1911
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by monstert View Post
I didn't warp anything. You still clearly said that "the fault does lie with Kira."
And you warped it by leaving out how it was Fukuda's fault, through Kira. It's not Kira's fault; it's Fukuda's because he kicked Shinn to the curb and replaced him with Kira to score popularity through fan-catering instead of storytelling.

Quote:
The reason why I didn't bother quoting your whole post was because I had nothing to say about the rest of your post.
Conveniently the rest of my post was all the part that showed I wasn't talking about the fault lying with a fictional character.

Quote:
If you really meant not to place any blame on Kira, then just take my reply as simply to point out that you should choose your words carefully so as not to be misunderstod. That would've been a more appropriate sentence if you really meant to place the blame solely on Fukuda, and not have some of it fall on Kira.
I did chose my words carefully: "Kira's fault, in that Fukuda etc etc." Then the rest of my post went on to say how it was Fukuda and his lack of effort to develop Shinn's character. Not my fault if you didn't see that my post blamed Fukuda when it was loaded with it.
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Old 2010-12-17, 04:53   Link #1912
monster
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
And you warped it by leaving out how it was Fukuda's fault, through Kira. It's not Kira's fault; it's Fukuda's because he kicked Shinn to the curb and replaced him with Kira to score popularity through fan-catering instead of storytelling.

Conveniently the rest of my post was all the part that showed I wasn't talking about the fault lying with a fictional character.
Let me quote you again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
The fault does lie with Kira
The rest of your post talked about Fukuda but never explicitly retracted the above claim.
Quote:
I did chose my words carefully
Obviously you could've done better. I've even provided you with a clearer statement that conveys the message you seemingly intended.

Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say. It's good that you realize that Kira is not at fault any more than other characters are. We disagree on the clarity of your original post, but hey, that's life.
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Old 2010-12-17, 05:35   Link #1913
kaito-kid
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Except Shinn isn't a real life character; he can't choose to do anything that appeases real life viewers or not. The fault does lie with Kira, in that Fukuda dumped Shinn's potential to focus on the character that fans liked more. Which is a bit contradictory; Kira is only popular because he was developed instead of left as some whiny character. Fukuda barely bothered to develop Shinn into a character that could draw in fans like he did with Kira in GSEED.
I'm lost here.. What are you talking about?
It's not shins fault that he wasn't able to carry his own damn series because he is not real.
But it IS Kira's fault because he is.... also not real?


anyways, I'll stop here. It seems Mr.Monster does understand what your talking about..
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Old 2010-12-17, 05:48   Link #1914
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The main reason of this failure i guess is the mismanaged of handling financial system that maybe the reason they took huge of budget to the music groups to make the music so awesome than Seed.

Or perhaps they concern of the popularity viewer rate into decent crash after ep.34 is non other to please the audience is the Kira fans. No wonder why the staff made Shinn like a poor development and Kira made him like a God.
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Old 2010-12-17, 07:41   Link #1915
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by monstert View Post
Let me quote you again:
Exactly. You selectively quoted my sentence, leaving out the "in that Fukuda etc etc." Of course when you do that it makes it look unclear. You won't understand what's going on if you only read the 5th page of the chapter. Context matters.

Quote:
The rest of your post talked about Fukuda but never explicitly retracted the above claim. Obviously you could've done better. I've even provided you with a clearer statement that conveys the message you seemingly intended.
Because it didn't need to retract anything; Fukuda ignored Shinn's development in favor of using Kira to draw in fans. So Fukuda used Kira's fanbase, in a way making it Kira's fault in that he was a popular character used by Fukuda which ended up screwing Shinn. It doesn't get any more crystal clear than that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
I'm lost here.. What are you talking about?
It's not shins fault that he wasn't able to carry his own damn series because he is not real.
But it IS Kira's fault because he is.... also not real?
*sigh* Does nobody see the several times I say Fukuda's name and state it's his fault for giving up on developing Shinn's character in favor of catering to fans by putting Kira back in the spotlight? I've seen selective reading before on these forums, but this is ridiculous.

Lesson learned; some people are oblivious to less-than-black-and-white wording, even when the main meat of the post is in black and white.
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Old 2010-12-17, 07:57   Link #1916
blitz1/2
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Originally Posted by Washu-Chan View Post
Source, please?

If that was true, I guess that Fukuda/Morosawa really pissed off the VAs.

Speaking of Kira's VA, I read of a rumor that he cried when they were originally going to kill Kira off at the end of SEED. Just in case you forgot, according to a 2003 interview with Fukuda, Kira was originally going to be killed off, Athrun would lose one of his arms, and Flay was originally to be a human bomb and would destroy the Archangel.

Fukuda Interview report

Take it for what you will.

IMO, it's because of his popularity with the Japanese audience that Kira was kept alive.
It was in a old Newtype magazine, I forgot which issue because a translated interview with Akira Ishida and Hoshi was there.
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Old 2010-12-17, 07:57   Link #1917
monster
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
So Fukuda used Kira's fanbase, in a way making it Kira's fault in that he was a character used by Fukuda and ended up screwin Shinn. it doesn't get any more crystal clear than that.
Wow, so the fact that Kira has an existing fanbase means it's now Kira's fault that Fukuda would try to cater to that fanbase? I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt up to this point. But, yeah, it's crystal clear to me now that you'll find any means to somehow say it's Kira's fault, even if it's just "in a way."

I could just as easily say that Fukuda used Shinn's lack of fanbase as an excuse to use Kira. So, in a way, it's Shinn's fault all along.
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Old 2010-12-17, 19:26   Link #1918
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
I've seen selective reading before on these forums, but this is ridiculous.
awwww~ Poor you, it must suck to be you


ow and just a fun reminder to everyone:
Destiny didn't fail! In fact it's the 2nd most successful Gundam series to date~ In terms of, popularity, ratings, sailes, revenue, ect Destiny was HUGE in the country where it matters the most... Fun facts, just putting it out there..
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Old 2010-12-18, 07:49   Link #1919
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Honestly the fact that people are still arguing over this series is testament to the power of Destiny. I mean Code Geass didn't have this type of staying power with people arguing.
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Old 2010-12-18, 10:08   Link #1920
GundamFan
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Honestly the fact that people are still arguing over this series is testament to the power of Destiny. I mean Code Geass didn't have this type of staying power with people arguing.
Well Charred Knight I gotta disagree the staying power comes more from the franchise of Gundam then Destiny itself.
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