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Old 2005-12-30, 21:44   Link #21
Lackadaisical
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There are two types of kidou: one which is essentially defensive, bakudou, and the other which is offensive, hadou.

In the manga these are clearly marked in the names of the spells.

Tessai used a defensive spell which, as far as we know does not carry the degree of difficultly that the offensive spell type does. When Gin comments on the difficulty of above 90 spells, he only mentions the offensive spells.

Last edited by Lackadaisical; 2005-12-30 at 22:00.
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Old 2005-12-31, 02:08   Link #22
Blaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutima
Aizen didnt reached full power because he didnt had the time to casts the complete incantation for the spell, wich takes severals minutes
Agrees. Besides, if Aizen do the incantation, Komamura would have evaded the spells.
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Old 2005-12-31, 05:33   Link #23
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Komamura is just an overgrown weakling who got owned by Aizen and would have even got owned by Kenpachi (without shikai/bankai) if they have finished fighting. Aizen is clearly a class above all captains that were shown and yet Gin was surprise that Aizen could use class 90 spell demonstrating that the class 90 offensive hadou is clearly powerful enough to take down an overgrown weakling captain... fully powered or not
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Old 2005-12-31, 10:04   Link #24
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gghochu
Aizen is clearly a class above all captains that were shown and yet Gin was surprise that Aizen could use class 90 spell demonstrating that the class 90 offensive hadou is clearly powerful enough to take down an overgrown weakling captain... fully powered or not
Incorrect; Gin wasn't impressed that Aizen performed the spell, he was impressed that he did it without the incantation. Aizen responded that he didn't pull it off properly; he'd messed up.

I wouldn't go calling Aizen "a captain above the rest" simply because he pulled off a Level 90 spell (and without incantation), nor because he brought down a weakened captain. By that logic, Zaraki Kenpachi is a god, because he took down two captains who were at full strength, directly after being weakened by Ichigo - and he didn't even use spells or bankai.

Aizen's crafty. Clearly, he can also back it up. We don't know his raw power potential, though, and hence we can't really compare him to anyone without wild speculations.
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Old 2005-12-31, 10:46   Link #25
Anh_Minh
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He stopped Ichigo's ban kai with his bare hand. I don't think even Kenpachi could do that.
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Old 2005-12-31, 13:13   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem
By that logic, Zaraki Kenpachi is a god, because he took down two captains who were at full strength, directly after being weakened by Ichigo - and he didn't even use spells or bankai.
Who was weakened? After the figth with Ichigo, it took three days, until Kenpachi fought with the other captains... in the meantime, he rested and gathered Ichigo's friends.
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Old 2005-12-31, 15:59   Link #27
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
He stopped Ichigo's ban kai with his bare hand. I don't think even Kenpachi could do that.
One could argue that Ichigo was pretty beat up already, so it isn't that impressive. What I'll argue instead is that stopping his bankai with his bare hand (or was it? Perhaps it was just an illusion?), that alone doesn't mean he'd win a fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One
Who was weakened? After the figth with Ichigo, it took three days, until Kenpachi fought with the other captains... in the meantime, he rested and gathered Ichigo's friends.
Was it? I have no perception of time with Bleach. You're right, I think, but it doesn't detract much from my initial point: Kenpachi took on two captains one after the other and won. The fact that Aizen took out Komamura, who'd already received something of a beating from Kenpachi, doesn't automatically mean that Aizen is oh-so-cool.

I'm sure Aizen's strong, don't get me wrong. I think people are getting a bit too excited over his raw power potential. Though it's a moot point; the next time we see him, he probably won't be a full shinigami anymore. We'll never know what his full capabilities were.
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Old 2005-12-31, 16:34   Link #28
Sety
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Just wondering but is it possible to argue that Komamura was under the influences of Aizen's Shikai still?

Since it seems anyone whos ever seen it remains in the trance, it could very well be possible hes using his hypnosis to make himself seem more powerful than he is.
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Old 2005-12-31, 16:56   Link #29
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem
One could argue that Ichigo was pretty beat up already, so it isn't that impressive. What I'll argue instead is that stopping his bankai with his bare hand (or was it? Perhaps it was just an illusion?), that alone doesn't mean he'd win a fight.
Ban kai is ban kai. If Ichigo was so weakened he couldn't compress his spiritual force anymore, he'd just let his ban kai go. Sure, the acttack wasn't as strong as what he could manage in peak condition. But it was very probably stronger than anything he could do with the normal Zangetsu (which includes cutting Kenpachi.)

And it can't have been an illusion: Ichigo's never seen Aizen's release.
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Old 2005-12-31, 17:26   Link #30
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Aizen is a hax0r. He can make up his own rules. Maybe he released his shikai and then used it to make it look like he didn't release it, or something... I wasn't expecting Ichigo to be affected by the hypnosis, either, but I refuse to believe that Aizen can really stop Ichigo's bankai with ONE FINGER, Ichigo being greatly weakened or not.

Right?
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Old 2005-12-31, 19:20   Link #31
Anh_Minh
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I think he really did. Now, it may be that he has a special technique to concentrate his spirit force in one point or something (as opposed to Kenpachi who just releases automatically, without conscious will.)
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Old 2006-01-01, 02:18   Link #32
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Yea .. Aizen's Spiritual Energy has to be insanely high. Higher than Kenpachi's or at least equal to it. Which makes sense really ... considering the lvl90 spell he cast on Konumaru. And the fact that he stopped Ichigo's BanKai means the spiritual energy floating around and in the finger is higher than the one concentrated in Ichigo's Black Zangetsu. The Bankai doesnt seem to be much more of an increase from his Shikai ... just an extension of his speed. So his strength / spiritual energy in his Bankai is pretty much the same in his Shikai. And if someone who is untalented in controlling spiritual energy (Kenpachi) can stop the blade ... someone with mastery of spiritual energy such as Aizen should stop it easily. Whats a bigger suprise is why Byakuya was not able to stop Ichigo the same way.
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Old 2006-01-01, 06:37   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem

.............. Kenpachi took on two captains one after the other and won. The fact that Aizen took out Komamura, who'd already received something of a beating from Kenpachi, doesn't automatically mean that Aizen is oh-so-cool...........


Komamura ran away from the fight with Kenpachi if I recall correctly.................one thing thats kinda bugging me is why was he surprised that he (Aizen) didnt cut Ichigo in half as he had intended...

I think that Urahara did Orchestrate this whole Rukia thing but was not in it with Aizen.....he probably was just tryin to keep anyone away from that thing that was inside Rukia so that it didnt fall into the wrong hands....
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-01-01, 15:00   Link #34
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I have no doubt that Urahara rank up with the more powerfull death gods out there, still hes a damn weakling when it comes to seizing opportunities, he actually want to destroy his own groundbreaking research, the man has no stomach, now the evil yet bishi Aizen took the credit.
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Old 2006-01-01, 15:25   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eLcHaKeTeRo
Komamura ran away from the fight with Kenpachi if I recall correctly.................
I believe you're correct, because I don't remember that fight concluding. Komamura did use his bankai against Kenpachi, though. So, whether he was beaten or not, they had to have fought a bit.

Quote:
Spoiler:
Not sure why that's in spoiler marks, since it's already been discussed in the anime as well, and even before episode 62 if I recall correctly. I'll respond in a spoiler tag anyway:

Spoiler for Why Urahara left Soul Society:
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Old 2006-01-01, 15:39   Link #36
gghochu
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ledgem
I wouldn't go calling Aizen "a captain above the rest" simply because he pulled off a Level 90 spell (and without incantation), nor because he brought down a weakened captain. By that logic, Zaraki Kenpachi is a god, because he took down two captains who were at full strength, directly after being weakened by Ichigo - and he didn't even use spells or bankai.

Aizen's crafty. Clearly, he can also back it up. We don't know his raw power potential, though, and hence we can't really compare him to anyone without wild speculations.
um i dont know how to do the spoiler tag so i wont go in detail but AIZEN is class above all the captains if u have read the manga
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Old 2006-01-01, 18:16   Link #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem
Spoiler for Why Urahara left Soul Society:
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-01-02, 01:28   Link #38
ichigo fans
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why cant people dodge spells?
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Old 2006-01-02, 05:27   Link #39
The Small One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ichigo fans
why cant people dodge spells?
Because they are usually held in place by the caster. At the time Baykuya used a spell against Ichigo, he rammed a sword through Ichigo's foot to prevent him from evading.
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Old 2006-01-02, 12:03   Link #40
ichigo fans
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One
Because they are usually held in place by the caster. At the time Baykuya used a spell against Ichigo, he rammed a sword through Ichigo's foot to prevent him from evading.

but renji can run right..
And that wolf captain also can run..


but when they cast spell , opponent just stunned there and wait for the spell to reach them -.-
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