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Old 2009-05-11, 20:38   Link #241
Chaos Zangetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyte View Post
the reason i think it may have something to do with the hogyokou is that ichigo's hollow powers seem to be alot stronger than the other vizards, most of which are captain class. and the arrancar that aizen created with the hogyokou are significantly stronger than the arrancar created with out the hogyokou
After Rukia had gone missing in the human world in the beginning of the series, SS couldn't detect her because of the gigai Urahara gave her. Rukia must've unknowingly had the Hongyoku implanted in her sometime after she tranferred her power to Ichigo because that would've been the only real time Urahara could get close to her because it was a convient way to hide the hongyoku so noone knows where it is and it would be hidden well whether she became human because of the gigai or if SS did retrieve her it wouldn't have been known still. Urahara probaly just thought making her human would be better to keep the Hongyoku safe from Aizen or anyone else alot more. Aizen himself explained this during the SS arc(though not word for word of course).
Because of this, there is a small chance that the Hongyoku had anything to do with Ichigo's hollow power.

I believe he got the hollow powers awakened after he almost turned into a hollow during Urahara's training. After they were awakened, as Ichigo got stronger, Hichigo got multitudes stronger as well, eventually on par with Ichigo's abilities and evetually surpassing Ichigo's power. That led to him challenging Ichigo for his body. That's also why when Ulquirrla(forget how to spell his name exactly) and Yammy were sent to Karakura town after Bount arc, Ulquirra felt Ichigo's reiatsu spiking when Ichigo was trying to stop Hichigo from taking over because Hichigo's power was making it through every so often as Ichigo was trying to contain him. Even when Ichigo defeated Hichigo when they were fighting over being "the king" and "the horse", Higchigo only backed down temporarily. I expect we'll see alot more conflict btween Ichigo and Hichigo as the series continues.
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Old 2009-05-11, 20:47   Link #242
Gin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Zangetsu View Post
After Rukia had gone missing in the human world in the beginning of the series, SS couldn't detect her because of the gigai Urahara gave her. Rukia must've unknowingly had the Hongyoku implanted in her sometime after she tranferred her power to Ichigo because that would've been the only real time Urahara could get close to her because it was a convient way to hide the hongyoku so noone knows where it is and it would be hidden well whether she became human because of the gigai or if SS did retrieve her it wouldn't have been known still. Urahara probaly just thought making her human would be better to keep the Hongyoku safe from Aizen or anyone else alot more. Aizen himself explained this during the SS arc(though not word for word of course).
Because of this, there is a small chance that the Hongyoku had anything to do with Ichigo's hollow power.

I believe he got the hollow powers awakened after he almost turned into a hollow during Urahara's training. After they were awakened, as Ichigo got stronger, Hichigo got multitudes stronger as well, eventually on par with Ichigo's abilities and evetually surpassing Ichigo's power. That led to him challenging Ichigo for his body. That's also why when Ulquirrla(forget how to spell his name exactly) and Yammy were sent to Karakura town after Bount arc, Ulquirra felt Ichigo's reiatsu spiking when Ichigo was trying to stop Hichigo from taking over because Hichigo's power was making it through every so often as Ichigo was trying to contain him. Even when Ichigo defeated Hichigo when they were fighting over being "the king" and "the horse", Higchigo only backed down temporarily. I expect we'll see alot more conflict btween Ichigo and Hichigo as the series continues.
aizen said that rukia had the hogyoku hidden inside of her and that by the time he discovered this fact, rukia had already gone missing in the real world
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Old 2009-05-11, 21:12   Link #243
Chaos Zangetsu
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There is a bit of complications with aizen's statement:

When could the Hongyoku have been implanted in her and by whom, especially if Urahara and Tessai were already gone and Aizen had no clue of the Hongyoku's existance. This was not explained fully as of yet, so Aizen could've been lying. The only thing is Urahara knew the Hongyoku was inside Rukia possibly but he couldn't have had the time when he was still in SS to hide it in her before he escaped so who else knew about the Hongyoku? Maybe Mayuri could've found out somwhow and somehow got ahold of it and ....experimented.... The only question now is did Urahara leave it behind when he left SS?
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Old 2009-05-11, 23:30   Link #244
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyte View Post
im not sure that this is relevant to what i was saying, but im sure im just misunderstanding what you are trying to say
What I'm saying is that Ichigo isn't the only vizard who's had contact with the hougyoku. All the vizards have had the hougyoku's power used on them by Urahara, but we don't know exactly what it did, if anything.

Also, before the hougyoku was put inside Rukia its powers were sealed. The only way to activate it is for it to temporarily bond with someone who has twice the reiatsu of a shinigami captain. Whether Ichigo had that kind of power when absorbed Rukia's powers is iffy. His own shinigami powers hadn't been fully unlocked. But I guess it was possible


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Zangetsu View Post
There is a bit of complications with aizen's statement:

When could the Hongyoku have been implanted in her and by whom, especially if Urahara and Tessai were already gone and Aizen had no clue of the Hongyoku's existance. This was not explained fully as of yet, so Aizen could've been lying. The only thing is Urahara knew the Hongyoku was inside Rukia possibly but he couldn't have had the time when he was still in SS to hide it in her before he escaped so who else knew about the Hongyoku? Maybe Mayuri could've found out somwhow and somehow got ahold of it and ....experimented.... The only question now is did Urahara leave it behind when he left SS?
Urahara stayed in SS for at least 20 hours after escaping Central 46 with Yourichi to prepare gigai for himself, Tessai and the vizards. He has a secret lair underneath Souyoku Hill so it wasn't like he had nowhere to hideout for some time. He was acting quickly, but he had enough time to hide the hougyoku in Rukia.
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Old 2009-05-12, 03:13   Link #245
sakuraame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyte View Post
aizen said that rukia had the hogyoku hidden inside of her and that by the time he discovered this fact, rukia had already gone missing in the real world
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Zangetsu View Post
There is a bit of complications with aizen's statement:

When could the Hongyoku have been implanted in her and by whom, especially if Urahara and Tessai were already gone and Aizen had no clue of the Hongyoku's existance. This was not explained fully as of yet, so Aizen could've been lying. The only thing is Urahara knew the Hongyoku was inside Rukia possibly but he couldn't have had the time when he was still in SS to hide it in her before he escaped so who else knew about the Hongyoku? Maybe Mayuri could've found out somwhow and somehow got ahold of it and ....experimented.... The only question now is did Urahara leave it behind when he left SS?
I interpreted Aizen's statement about him discovering the method to hide the Hougyoku and its connection to Rukia as reference to the moment that she disappeared off Soul Society's radar, after she got into Urahara's gigai that would sap all her shinigami powers. I thought that Urahara implanted the Hougyoku into her soul when he gave her the gigai. Aizen is just crazy good at connecting dots and figured out that when SS couldn't trace Rukia it was because of the gigai and the use of that special gigai meant that Urahara would be trying to hide the Hougyoku. At that point, we assume that Urahara and Rukia first met the night she lost her powers, so it would make sense that the Hougyoku was implanted then. If it was implanted at an earlier time, then it should have been explained when Aizen was talking about it, or else his story wouldn't make sense. I'm pretty confident that Urahara would not have left it behind in SS when he left. If the Hougyoku is as dangerous as he thought it was and Aizen was as smart as Urahara knew he was, Urahara probably wouldn't risk leaving the Hougyoku in SS in a 50 year old Rukia (who probably looked like a 5 year old) that couldn't defend herself. It's not impossible, but as logic for the treatment of a potentially dangerous substance, it seems unlikely. Honestly, part of me just feels like Kubo just didn't explain things very well there and it ends up being vague and somewhat confusing when Aizen's explanation is supposed to be such an eureka moment. You end up reading it 30 times and asking 30 other people what they think before coming to some sort of conclusion.

As for Ichigo's hollow powers, I'm curious to find out
Spoiler for recent manga chapters:
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Old 2009-05-13, 18:25   Link #246
tensashinigami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakuraame View Post

As for Ichigo's hollow powers, I'm curious to find out
Spoiler for recent manga chapters:

Perhaps... \/
Spoiler for Ichigo bad dream?:
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Old 2009-05-14, 14:55   Link #247
kagato3
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Ugh not this again. The Hongyoku was hidden in Rukia before he left SS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
It was Day One as shown in chapter 0a&b and had been on duty for about 17 hours. She started to use said gigai right after she lost her powers as Urahara came to her as she was lieing in the street.
If he hid it in her in SS it would have been when she was a child in nearly the worst part of SS. her life expectincy would not have been very long and she would likely be reborn loseing the Hougyoku. You notice thats the same plan he tryed to use on earth. As for the gigai, Isshin was in one for 20 years and seems to know most, if not all, of Urahara's plans there was no reason to wait for Rukia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
You seem to forget, that on Rukia's first day in the human world she met Ichigo, lost her powers and got a Gigai from Urahara. This all happened on one day. There simply wasn't any time to implant the Hogyoku inside of her. She "immediately" went missing after coming to the human world.

Besides: I already said it: It doesn't make sense to keep the Hogyoku for 100 years, just to suddenly hide it inside of a weak newbie Shinigami. If he really had it with him, he had 100 years and probably thousands of Shinigami coming to the town to hide it.

Not to mention Isshin, who no one seems to be looking for.
and the below post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildenstern from Bleach Asylum

Bleach Chapter 175-- Or "How did Rukia get that darned Hougyoku, anyway?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whee! Time to ride the vomit rainbow! Another fun compare-and-contrast yay happy fun time translation post from me which I'm sure you're thoroughly sick of but I'm gonna do it anyway for the sake of accuracy. I blame Air because they got me started.

My subject is chapter 175-- Specifically, the concept of when Rukia got the Hougyoku-- before she came to the living world, or after? This has been a sticking point for a while among people and its gonna be tricky because it's less of a word issue than it is a grammar issue.

Let's line these babies up. Using M-R for the home team today because J-N didn't translate this back in the day.

JP Raw

M R

M7

Side-by-side text comparison--
JP Raw: Aizen: "Sono toki kare ga kakushibasho toshite eranta no ga/Kimi da Kuchiki Rukia"
Ichigo: "Nan....datte...?"
Aizen: "Boku ga sono koto wo tsuki tometa toki/Kimi wa suya ni gense de yukuefumei ni natta ato datta" <-- this is the important line, because it shows us what/when Aizen knew of where the Hougyoku was and why Rukia had gone missing. Also I need to get either better raws or better glasses, because I had to use a magnifying glass on that D:

M-R: Aizen: "The place he chose to hide it in/Was you, Kuchiki Rukia"
Ichigo: "Wh...What did you say...?"
Aizen: "By the time I discovered this/You had already gone missing in the real world"

M7:Aizen: "The location that he chose/Was within you, Kuchiki Rukia"
Ichigo: "What...did you say...?"
Aizen: "When I discovered that/Your whereabouts were still unknown"

I can't knock M7 too bad for this one-- even though their translation is a lot...more vague than the raw and M-R it's still a pretty good job. (/>___<)/ TAKE YOUR PRAISE, TAKE IT

If you read this page in context it's clear what the author is intending to convey:
1. Aizen searched for the Hougyoku's location
2. By the time he learned where it was hidden, Rukia (the 'place' he refers to where the Hougyoku was hidden) has already disappeared in the living world.
3. This leads him to state-- Aizen: "I knew intuitively/That this was all Urahara Kisuke's doing." -- namely, Aizen knew that Urahara was behind Rukia's disappearance in the living world. It merely confirmed to Aizen what he already knew-- That Rukia had it-- and that Urahara was going to attempt to hide it by concealing her in the power-draining gigai.

From these three statements it's easy to see what went down-- As per a recent blurb in the HM arc from Aizen, Urahara never used the Hougyoku. He sealed it almost immediately after its creation, and after many attempts to destroy it (all of which failed), he hid it in 'a place' (I.E. Rukia) in an attempt to conceal what he could not destroy.

What is unknown at this time is:
1. At what age Rukia exactly received the Hougyoku (could be any age between her babyhood when Hisana last saw her and the age where she met Renji, all of which are unaccounted for. Probably a young age, as she had no knowledge of it).
2. How Urahara was able to encounter Rukia in a timely enough fashion to shove her into a gigai to attempt to hide her. Did Urahara know of Aizen's nearness to the knowledge of the Hougyoku's location and pull some strings in order to get Rukia hidden?

Both of these are continuity issues that Kubo will himself have to resolve in the course of the manga-- no answers for these questions are provided by canon at the present time, although if I had a few drinks down me I could probably guess. XD


Anyway...I hope that clears up the issue of 'When did Rukia get it and how'. If you want a better overall picture of what this chapter is trying to say but you can't read JP, I uploaded the M-R translation of Bleach 175 (courtesy of Miss Syn) to Sendspace-- please download it and give it a read.
*edited out*
It might help with your understanding of this chapter maybe just a little, and even if you already knew about this-- It's still a hell of a good read. (If you cannot use Sendspace and need a different link, PM me, OK?)

PS-- Please don't kick my ass for this. I don't write Bleach, I just tell people what Kubo wrote. (;____; )

Edit, really goddamn late:
http://bleachasylum.com/showpost.php...5&postcount=85 <--- is a link to MelodyMix's translation of the sourcebooks expounding further on the subject-- Rukia didn't get the orb from the gigai.

Edit further:
http://bleachasylum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=183 <---is a link to a page with the most recent excerpt to Jaina's interview with Kubo in...San Diego, I think? as to when Rukia got the Hougyoku. PROTIP: I get vindicated.
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Old 2009-05-14, 18:35   Link #248
Captain Zechs
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Hmmm. Do you guys ever think Hollow Ichigo will ever return? I always thought he was pretty awesome and his threat to Ichigo I think should be taken seriously. Perhaps he will end up being the final boss, with Ichigo having one large inner battle while those around him fight his hollow form?
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Old 2009-05-14, 20:47   Link #249
Chaos Zangetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
Ugh not this again. The Hongyoku was hidden in Rukia before he left SS.

and the below post
Well, if that's true then again there are some questions:
1. Why did he specifically choose Rukia, an insignificant weak little kid in SS at the time who just happened to lose her powers to Ichigo the son of Isshin(who Urahara knew) in the future and was found by Urahara by coincidence, thus giving him a grand oppurrunity to hide the hongyoku even better? You'd think he'd pick someone strong or with great potenial to protect it against Aizen, or even a random soul in SS that wouldn't even have been able to trace as easily as Rukia and wouldn't even have been a shinigami eventually would've been better. Urahara had to have chose her for a reason.
2. Unless Urahara got back to his Captain's quarters to retrieve the hongyoku, how did he get ahold of it again? When SS captured him and Tessai, Urahara had no time to grab it and Yoruichi didn't even know it existed when she got Urahara's gigais and the Vizards, so she couldn't have grabbed it and after she did that, I 'm pretty sure that SS would've put a heck of alot more security there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Zechs View Post
Hmmm. Do you guys ever think Hollow Ichigo will ever return? I always thought he was pretty awesome and his threat to Ichigo I think should be taken seriously. Perhaps he will end up being the final boss, with Ichigo having one large inner battle while those around him fight his hollow form?
Hichigo will most liekly return. He did promise to fuill gain control of Ichigo one day after all. I think that somehow, Hicigo and Ichigo will get separated and have a massive battle during the eventual fight with Aizen or after it. Personally, I think Hichigo is already more powerful than Aizen and will swat him like a fly if it happens during the battle.
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Old 2009-05-14, 21:00   Link #250
sayde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Zangetsu View Post
Personally, I think Hichigo is already more powerful than Aizen and will swat him like a fly if it happens during the battle.
I'd be so disappointed if that happened. Seriously, I'd scream. Then I'd probably walk around the rest of the day looking like this:
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Old 2009-05-15, 07:31   Link #251
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Zangetsu View Post
You'd think he'd pick someone strong or with great potenial to protect it against Aizen, or even a random soul in SS that wouldn't even have been able to trace as easily as Rukia and wouldn't even have been a shinigami eventually would've been better. Urahara had to have chose her for a reason.
Rukia would've been a random soul. She was just of the many, many orphans living in one of the poorest districts of the Rukongai at the time Urahara created the hougyoku. She only got adopted by the Kuchiki clan and became a shinigami after the fact by pure chance.

Quote:
2. Unless Urahara got back to his Captain's quarters to retrieve the hongyoku, how did he get ahold of it again? When SS captured him and Tessai, Urahara had no time to grab it and Yoruichi didn't even know it existed when she got Urahara's gigais and the Vizards, so she couldn't have grabbed it and after she did that, I 'm pretty sure that SS would've put a heck of alot more security there.
He did just that. It was already mentioned that Urahara stayed in SS for at least 20 hours after he escaped because he needed to make gigais. We can assume he went back to his lab for tools and materials and also to retrieve the hougyoku. Urahara's also more than skilled enough to move around SS undetected.

Whatever way you choose to explain how the hogyoku ended up in Rukia, it relies on a remarkable set of coincidences really.

Anyways, it's a digression...


Quote:
Hichigo will most liekly return. He did promise to fuill gain control of Ichigo one day after all. I think that somehow, Hicigo and Ichigo will get separated and have a massive battle during the eventual fight with Aizen or after it. Personally, I think Hichigo is already more powerful than Aizen and will swat him like a fly if it happens during the battle.
I would really like to see Hichigo manifest in the real world as a separate being, but it's implied they need each other's power to go full strength. I'm not sure how Hichigo would maintain his power if he were to actually separate from Ichigo.
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Old 2009-05-15, 14:05   Link #252
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Zangetsu View Post
Well, if that's true then again there are some questions:
1. Why did he specifically choose Rukia, an insignificant weak little kid in SS at the time who just happened to lose her powers to Ichigo the son of Isshin(who Urahara knew) in the future and was found by Urahara by coincidence, thus giving him a grand oppurrunity to hide the hongyoku even better? You'd think he'd pick someone strong or with great potenial to protect it against Aizen, or even a random soul in SS that wouldn't even have been able to trace as easily as Rukia and wouldn't even have been a shinigami eventually would've been better. Urahara had to have chose her for a reason.
Well as already pointed out Rukia was a random soul at the time. As for putting it in someone stronger if he had it with him that brings up a whole other mess of problems. First why wait so long to hide it. Second why hide it in a shinigami that someone will most likely come looking for and not say the captain level ex shinigami that aparently no one is looking for.
Quote:
2. Unless Urahara got back to his Captain's quarters to retrieve the hongyoku, how did he get ahold of it again? When SS captured him and Tessai, Urahara had no time to grab it and Yoruichi didn't even know it existed when she got Urahara's gigais and the Vizards, so she couldn't have grabbed it and after she did that, I 'm pretty sure that SS would've put a heck of alot more security there.
Well you run in to that problem reguardless of where he hid it. Although he may have had it on him when he was taken since he had just finished trying to restore Shinji.
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Old 2009-05-17, 11:39   Link #253
tensashinigami
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I still believe it was the direct result of Urahara form of training; perhaps, it was Urahara intentions to doing that to Ichigo and hoping the process would make him a Vaizard.

Spoiler for ? ?:
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Old 2009-05-17, 14:29   Link #254
Gin
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
he may have had it on him when he was taken since he had just finished trying to restore Shinji.
thats what i assume happened
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Old 2009-05-18, 19:30   Link #255
Chaos Zangetsu
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Quote:
Although he may have had it on him when he was taken since he had just finished trying to restore Shinji.
That can't be the case. In the anime especially, He was seen as putting the hongyoku back where it was after he tried to save the vizards with it. After day broke, Urahara went outside where he was captured. Urahara also had no reason to have it on him, whether he knew SS was coming to capture him or not, because then he would've risked SS getting hold of it and that would've ended badly if Aizen got hold of it.
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Old 2009-05-18, 22:57   Link #256
Gin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Zangetsu View Post
That can't be the case. In the anime especially, He was seen as putting the hongyoku back where it was after he tried to save the vizards with it. After day broke, Urahara went outside where he was captured. Urahara also had no reason to have it on him, whether he knew SS was coming to capture him or not, because then he would've risked SS getting hold of it and that would've ended badly if Aizen got hold of it.
he may have put it in his and yoruichi's secret training place, that seems like the one of the safest places to put it. that way, if anything happened to him, yoruichi could retrieve it
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Old 2009-06-08, 16:50   Link #257
UchihaSasuke14
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sorry peter2004 but rukia got the hougykou when she was given the gigai by urahara after she lost her powers to ichigo.
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Old 2009-06-08, 22:20   Link #258
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UchihaSasuke14 View Post
sorry peter2004 but rukia got the hougykou when she was given the gigai by urahara after she lost her powers to ichigo.
NO SHE DIDN'T. It looks like you didn't even bother to read the last page, because if you had you would have seen this
and the below post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildenstern from Bleach Asylum

Bleach Chapter 175-- Or "How did Rukia get that darned Hougyoku, anyway?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whee! Time to ride the vomit rainbow! Another fun compare-and-contrast yay happy fun time translation post from me which I'm sure you're thoroughly sick of but I'm gonna do it anyway for the sake of accuracy. I blame Air because they got me started.

My subject is chapter 175-- Specifically, the concept of when Rukia got the Hougyoku-- before she came to the living world, or after? This has been a sticking point for a while among people and its gonna be tricky because it's less of a word issue than it is a grammar issue.

Let's line these babies up. Using M-R for the home team today because J-N didn't translate this back in the day.

JP Raw

M R

M7

Side-by-side text comparison--
JP Raw: Aizen: "Sono toki kare ga kakushibasho toshite eranta no ga/Kimi da Kuchiki Rukia"
Ichigo: "Nan....datte...?"
Aizen: "Boku ga sono koto wo tsuki tometa toki/Kimi wa suya ni gense de yukuefumei ni natta ato datta" <-- this is the important line, because it shows us what/when Aizen knew of where the Hougyoku was and why Rukia had gone missing. Also I need to get either better raws or better glasses, because I had to use a magnifying glass on that D:

M-R: Aizen: "The place he chose to hide it in/Was you, Kuchiki Rukia"
Ichigo: "Wh...What did you say...?"
Aizen: "By the time I discovered this/You had already gone missing in the real world"

M7:Aizen: "The location that he chose/Was within you, Kuchiki Rukia"
Ichigo: "What...did you say...?"
Aizen: "When I discovered that/Your whereabouts were still unknown"

I can't knock M7 too bad for this one-- even though their translation is a lot...more vague than the raw and M-R it's still a pretty good job. (/>___<)/ TAKE YOUR PRAISE, TAKE IT

If you read this page in context it's clear what the author is intending to convey:
1. Aizen searched for the Hougyoku's location
2. By the time he learned where it was hidden, Rukia (the 'place' he refers to where the Hougyoku was hidden) has already disappeared in the living world.
3. This leads him to state-- Aizen: "I knew intuitively/That this was all Urahara Kisuke's doing." -- namely, Aizen knew that Urahara was behind Rukia's disappearance in the living world. It merely confirmed to Aizen what he already knew-- That Rukia had it-- and that Urahara was going to attempt to hide it by concealing her in the power-draining gigai.

From these three statements it's easy to see what went down-- As per a recent blurb in the HM arc from Aizen, Urahara never used the Hougyoku. He sealed it almost immediately after its creation, and after many attempts to destroy it (all of which failed), he hid it in 'a place' (I.E. Rukia) in an attempt to conceal what he could not destroy.

What is unknown at this time is:
1. At what age Rukia exactly received the Hougyoku (could be any age between her babyhood when Hisana last saw her and the age where she met Renji, all of which are unaccounted for. Probably a young age, as she had no knowledge of it).
2. How Urahara was able to encounter Rukia in a timely enough fashion to shove her into a gigai to attempt to hide her. Did Urahara know of Aizen's nearness to the knowledge of the Hougyoku's location and pull some strings in order to get Rukia hidden?

Both of these are continuity issues that Kubo will himself have to resolve in the course of the manga-- no answers for these questions are provided by canon at the present time, although if I had a few drinks down me I could probably guess. XD


Anyway...I hope that clears up the issue of 'When did Rukia get it and how'. If you want a better overall picture of what this chapter is trying to say but you can't read JP, I uploaded the M-R translation of Bleach 175 (courtesy of Miss Syn) to Sendspace-- please download it and give it a read.
*edited out*
It might help with your understanding of this chapter maybe just a little, and even if you already knew about this-- It's still a hell of a good read. (If you cannot use Sendspace and need a different link, PM me, OK?)

PS-- Please don't kick my ass for this. I don't write Bleach, I just tell people what Kubo wrote. (;____; )

Edit, really goddamn late:
http://bleachasylum.com/showpost.php...5&postcount=85 <--- is a link to MelodyMix's translation of the sourcebooks expounding further on the subject-- Rukia didn't get the orb from the gigai.

Edit further:
http://bleachasylum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=183 <---is a link to a page with the most recent excerpt to Jaina's interview with Kubo in...San Diego, I think? as to when Rukia got the Hougyoku. PROTIP: I get vindicated.
and the 2 importent parts of the links in the above post.
Quote:
すべては彼の掌の上に

死神の限界を破らんとする努力。その唯一の方法とされるのが“死神のホロウ化”だ。愛染を含め 多くの物が実 験を重ねたが、成功に至った者は唯一、浦原喜介のみ。浦原は死神とホロウの境界を消す“宝玉” を作りだすが 、その危険性を悟り存在自体を隠蔽した。選ばれし隠し場所は朽木ルキアの魂魄。歳月が経ち、任務だ現世は降 り たルキアは、一護に死神の力を奪われる。これを機に浦原は、特性義骸に霊力 拡散作用だルキア快復を阻害。時と共に霊力を奪われてルキアが人間ぬなってしまえば宝玉は完全 に隠されるは ずだった。


Quote:
MelodyMix: But what it basically says is, because the Hougyoku was a dangerous substance Kisuke decided to hide it somewhere, and that somewhere was in Rukia’s soul. And after a few years when Rukia came to the human world and gave Ichigo her power Kisuke took that opportunity to destroy the Hougyoku for good by giving Rukia a “special gigai” and turning her into a human. Because the Hougyoku was hid inside Rukia’s soul, as her Shinigami powers disappeared at the same time the Hougyoku will disappear as well, turning her into a human.

Nothing written about when Kisuke hid the Hougyoku inside Rukia or why he chose her. But VIBEs just proved the Hougyoku was inside Rukia before she met Ichigo and gave her power to him.

Now that that's settled, let's not discuss this ever again. >__>b
Quote:
Courtesy of Jaina, who has a anime related grown-up job and Debbie's Bleach forum, an excerpt from an interview with Kubo Jaina did. Jaina is hereby honorarily offered a special heaping helping of the G-love as a reward for being so freaking awesome as to ask this question:


Quote:
AI: When did Rukia have the Hogyoku put inside her?
Kubo: It’s a secret!

So much for "It's not important", huh?
:3

Catface edit-- for when you can't get enough of that lovin' feelin':
I was kind of spinning my wheels trying to think of what exactly I wanted to say about this most recent development in my saga of fail, and it's kind of manifold.

First, it brings to light that there's more to the issue than simply "It's obvious she got it from the gigai, w", which is what I was kind of trying to say to begin with, so it's nice to be vindicated on that respect.

Secondly, it bids well for a future futher fleshing-out of Rukia's backstory. Considering that it's so full of huge gaping holes, I was hoping for that. It also throws some light on the idea that how she got it and in what fashion it was given will have some impact on the story in future, and that's why it's secret now.

Thirdly, I KNEW that Kubo ended our flashback into pre-Bleach SS at exactly that moment for a reason. He couldn't show what happened with Urahara, the Vizored and the Hougyoku because it would be SPOILERS.
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Old 2009-06-23, 00:45   Link #259
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i just had a thought, since ichigo hollowfied before regaining his shinigami powers, could he be considered an arrancar? because that would explain why ulquiorra said his rieatsu was like the espadas'
sorry if this has been brought up before
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Old 2009-06-23, 16:18   Link #260
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We can expect him to get an arrancar form or something like that later and he'll be more stronger (like always well its the main character its obvious )
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