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Old 2007-12-24, 11:40   Link #161
Blood_Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
He couldn't have gotten it from his mother unless she was a Vaizard. But he'd still be a Spirit baby. (Not mention...REALLY DEAD.)

When Hiyori made that statement...I believe she meant because she wasn't a part of any species. To me it was it was a statement born out of pain, frustration, isolation and loneliness. Vaizards are outcast...

So she may hate them because she is not wanted, when that's really what she wants...To be wanted.

Well-
The increase of 9 vizard so far [not including the main man himself] to me said:
1. That there was a certain event which brought them into to bleach unvierse
2. they havent beem known to actually xsist in recorded SS data, and the fact that Aizen wants to make them= that they were recent figures in history. naturally made Shinigami/ hollowfications are posssible

When Hiyori and Shinji had that short talk I thought it felt more like a motive and a grudge to me when he said 'be paitient' as in something will change their current status- problem being that we dont know anything valuable to Vizard Lore. Ichigo being the only sibling to inherit the shinigami/ vizard powers is explainable- the other two sisters either havent had their powers awaken or that they havent inherited it yet. Another thing to note is that HIchigo was the manifestation of the hollow side of Ichigo's soul [no different form because hollows dont have manifestations toward soul -lol because they are the soul itself]. and that zangetsu was the shinigami side and since both entities are now the same it shows the fusion of hollow and shinigami, also how I got the 'blame it on the parents idea'
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Old 2007-12-25, 21:59   Link #162
Iseikuneso
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My theory:

Originally, Ichigo's power lay dormant inside him, when Rukia gave him her power his power was still sealed, though the seal was weaker. When Ichigo was put in the Shattered Shaft his full power was awakening, that's why he was able to fight off becoming a hollow, but he couldn't completely push it off so part of the hollow latched on to him.
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Old 2007-12-25, 23:41   Link #163
Blood_Knight
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Originally Posted by Iseikuneso View Post
My theory:

Originally, Ichigo's power lay dormant inside him, when Rukia gave him her power his power was still sealed, though the seal was weaker. When Ichigo was put in the Shattered Shaft his full power was awakening, that's why he was able to fight off becoming a hollow, but he couldn't completely push it off so part of the hollow latched on to him.
lol- that works
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Old 2008-02-26, 07:51   Link #164
Intelus
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1. He got it from the pit when he almost died/turned in to a hollow.

I don't think so, remember his first fight with Renji. His facial expression, his choice of words... It didn't really sound like ichigo, it sounded more like his Hollow.

2. Rukia trasfered it to him when she gave him shinigami powers.

Well, I can't say that it's not possible, but it's not probable. I mean... transfer of spiritual beings? Besides, his Hollow said multiple times that he and Zangetsu are one, and he sure as hell didn't get Zangetsu from Rukia.

3. He is a reincarnation of Kaien which was turned in to a hollow before he died.

Aaroniero Arruruerie absorbed/ate/whatever Metastacia and Kaien so Ichigo can't be a reincarnation of Kaien, since Kaien didn't die normally.

4. His own shinigami were a hollow hybrid to begin with and got unlocked along with his shinigami powers in the pit.

See 1. --> fight with Renji.

5. He inherited it from his mother and/or father.

Well... possible, not likely.

6. Urahara advertedly put Ichigo in the pit knowing it would make him into a hybrid hollow.

See 1. --> fight with Renji.

7. The hougyoku affected Ichigo's own shinigami powers when he was around Rukia not when she transferred her powers.

I wouldn't really say so... Aizen states that the Hougyoku can be activated when temporarily fusing with someone who has twice the spirit force (reiatsu) of an average Shinigami Captain. Maybe it's only required to CONTROL the Hougyoku, so this might've happened, but I don't think that's what happened.

8. A combination of 3 and 5. One of Ichigo's ancestors is the reincarnation of Kaien.

See 3. --> Aaroniero Arruruerie

9. A modification of 1. The hollow Ichigo turned up to stop him from becoming a full hollow so he wouldn't lose his host.

See 1. --> fight with Renji.

10. An extension of 4. The hollow couldn't take over because Rukia's powers where somehow surpressing him.

See 1. --> fight with Renji.
------------------------------------------------

I think we should think what happened to him BEFORE the fight with Renji (or during, but nothing special happened except that he was weakened to a point where his Hollow could partially take over).

Well, that's what I think.
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Old 2008-02-28, 05:45   Link #165
EarlyBlake
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Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
I wasn't going to say anything...but I am seriously bored. So here goes...

It's safe to say that Ichigo is a Vaizard. It's also safe to say he is he got his Hollow powers at the same time he discovered his own Shinigami powers; in the shattered shaft...aka Urahara’s pit...

I believe you have thought about this more than Kubo Tite.

Last edited by EarlyBlake; 2008-02-29 at 00:34.
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Old 2008-02-28, 22:55   Link #166
Aadi
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There are some interesting theories here, but I have to say, I haven't read them all...it's a little too overwhelming...so if I repeat something that's already been addressed or dismissed, please excuse it.

Let's see if this makes sense:

1) Ichigo is the son of a Captain, trained all of his life by a Captain, and as we've seen, is easily twice as powerful as an average Captain.

2) As we saw in the Bounto Arc, Rukia has some fairly latent powers of her own.

3) If we could pin it on the hougyoku "leaking" via proximity, then others would have also been affected, which is not the case.

Therefore, when the two powerful spirits combined, I believe it was enough to give Ichigo a little Espada style, hougyoku boost. Even though the effect was immediate, he was still using Rukia's powers, so his remained untapped, but still leaking (toward Chad and Inoue, both of whom had a very special bond with Ichigo...it could even be argued that Ichigo's dad got his powers back from Ichigo's leakage). Once Rukia's powers were removed, Ichigo was forced to tap into his own...which he did to a very small degree, and has been increasing ever since.

Zangetsu, Hichigo and the nine-tailed-fox...lol...sorry couldn't resist. There are similarities, and it seems like people are trying to draw a direct correlation. The problem is that the nine-tailed-fox is a completely seperate being that is sealed up inside of Naruto; whereas Zangetsu and Hichigo are an integral part of Ichigo's own core being...Ichigo's internal conflict with Hichigo is not a seperate being trying to take over, it's a darker side of Ichigo trying to gain control.

So, to sum up my premise...Ichigo got his incredible power from direct exposure to Hougyoku; Chad and Inuoe, then got their powers indirectly from Hougyoku through Ichigo's leakage (which sounds pretty nasty).
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Old 2008-03-01, 02:32   Link #167
War_Lord
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I assumed the hollow counterpart was something like the Id and it's apart of all human souls (In the bleach world). As Ichigo's high spiritual pressure affected Chad and Inue, it also impacted his hollow self. It got a taste of the power and slowly began to crave more of it. Eventually it materialized into a humanoid form within Ichi's subconscious and has become a direct threat. I guess the main difference between Ichigo and the Vizards is that Ichigo gained his hollow powers unintentionally and against his own will (but now he wants to use the power to his advantage), while the Vizards intentionally brought out their inner hollow counterparts in order to tame it (Still not sure why though).
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Old 2008-03-02, 11:55   Link #168
BleachOD
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We really don't know if it was intentionally or not...

We know nothing about them

@Blake thanks for the cookies...I have put a lot of thought into (Blame my fandom)
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Old 2008-03-02, 12:41   Link #169
War_Lord
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^ I was basing my statement on what was stated about them in the manga and anime. "They're Shinigami who choose to use taboo powers and was exiled from SS" or somewhere along those lines. That may be true or not, but since it's the only thing said about them I assume it's true until proven otherwise.
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Old 2008-03-07, 09:34   Link #170
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ichigo unlocked his shinigami and hollow but couldnt manifest it untill people that unlocked there hollows and controled them taught him how
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Old 2008-03-07, 10:02   Link #171
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by anime fan View Post
ichigo unlocked his shinigami and hollow but couldnt manifest it untill people that unlocked there hollows and controled them taught him how
What?!

No...He unlocked them during the fight with Byakuya. He could not manifest it on his own until the Vaizards taught him how...
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Old 2008-03-08, 11:21   Link #172
cloak_and_dagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aadi View Post

So, to sum up my premise...Ichigo got his incredible power from direct exposure to Hougyoku
If you watch episode 61, In Rukia's flashback she was in a white robe and it was obviously when she was in a weakened state, indicating that the hogyouku was infused in her AFTER her powers were taken by Ichigo, so the aprox. 1/3 of her original power that she had left was affected by the hogyouku, not the 2/3 in Ichigo.
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Old 2008-03-09, 18:37   Link #173
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger View Post
If you watch episode 61, In Rukia's flashback she was in a white robe and it was obviously when she was in a weakened state, indicating that the hogyouku was infused in her AFTER her powers were taken by Ichigo, so the aprox. 1/3 of her original power that she had left was affected by the hogyouku, not the 2/3 in Ichigo.
You are wrong.

That's just in the anime. In the manga it's only a doodle at the end of the chapter. Depicting Rukia and the robe. and Urahara's leg. That's when he gave her the gigai...to hide her. Not the Hougyoku. That's an anime boo boo.


Aizen says in the anime and manga. That by the time he found the out the the LOCATION and WHO it was hidden in Rukia had already left.
Since I know you won't take my word for it...I will prove (Hougyoku is a theory I kicked around and I have had my share of Aizen debates in other forums so I know it off gate)
He says this in the anime ep 61 at 20:27-:38

And chapter 175 volume Volume 20 pg 13 & 14

Spoiler for Chapter 175 pages 13 & 14:


Spoiler for Anime ep 61:


So you see the Urahara had already hid the Hougyoku in Rukia before she met Ichigo. And before he fled society. He got exiled for creating the Gigai he gave her. It was a preventative measure in case the location of the Hougyoku was discovered. It was a by chance that Rukia was delivered into his hands.

The Gigai's purpose was to conceal the location of the Hougyoku. It was not the means in which he gave it to her.

Aizens explains this..

Spoiler for Anime episode 61:


Spoiler for Chapter 175 pages 15 & 16:


It's a common mistake. Hoped that helped to clear it up for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aadi View Post

So, to sum up my premise...Ichigo got his incredible power from direct exposure to Hougyoku
No. he got in the pit. When he almost became a Hollow.
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Old 2008-03-09, 18:51   Link #174
Amirali
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This might be the wrong thread to bring this up....but it doesn't seem a bad place to start. Does anyone else think that Ichigo's character is evolving into someone who likes to fight more and more? Early on, fighting was a chore for Ichi, or a way to protect his friends.
But then there was that encounter with his hollow, where he learned from his inner Kenpachi that he also has the fighting instinct. Since then, there have been hints that he's starting to enjoy the fight for the sake of it. First in the anime filler arc (Forest of Menos) where Rukia has to admonish him that he should forget the adjuchas and retreat even though he wanted to kill them all. Then of course, against Ulquiorra, he attacked Ulqui first without waiting to be forced into it. (Contrast this to his fight against Byakuya in SS, when he engaged only when Kuchiki tried to attack him).
Spoiler for HM arc, upto chapter 313:
There are a few possible explanations for this change:

1) Ichigo wants to settle score for all the damage that's been done to his friends by Aizen and co.
2) He realizes that his friends will never be safe until his enemies are killed.
3) He's beginning to enjoy all the constant fighting and battles, even if he doesn't realize it yet. The Hichigo/Kenpachi side of his personality is manifesting more. I don't mean his inner hollow is taking over or anything. It's just that Hichigo is an aspect of his personality, not a completely alien invader. Now that Ichigo has accepted that part of himself, it's gaining more expression.

If I had to choose one explanation, I personally find number 3 the most intriguing.
Does anyone else spot the same trend of increasing desire to fight in Ichi's actions? Or am I reading too much into recent events? And what could be the reasons behind this change?

Edit: By the way, that is what I would love to see in Bleach as an ending.......after Ichi has saved all his friends, and there's noone left who needs protecting. He gets a chance to leave behind the fighting and walk away.......only to be drawn by Kenpachi's challenge. I just don't think it's in Kenpachi's nature to give up all hopes of a rematch. Once the war ends, if he's still alive......he and Ichigo have a date to keep .

Last edited by Amirali; 2008-03-09 at 19:37. Reason: still slightly relevant to this thread because of the Hichigo reference
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Old 2008-03-09, 19:04   Link #175
BleachOD
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Originally Posted by amirali1985 View Post
This might be the wrong thread to bring this up....but it doesn't seem a bad place to start. Does anyone else think that Ichigo's character is evolving into someone who likes to fight more and more? Early on, fighting was a chore for Ichi, or a way to protect his friends.
But then there was that encounter with his hollow, where he learned from his inner Kenpachi that he also has the fighting instinct. Since then, there have been hints that he's starting to enjoy the fight for the sake of it. First in the anime filler arc (Forest of Menos) where Rukia has to admonish him that he should forget the adjuchas and retreat even though he wanted to kill them all. Then of course, against Ulquiorra, he attacked Ulqui first without waiting to be forced into it. (Contrast this to his fight against Byakuya in SS, when he engaged only when Kuchiki tried to attack him).
Spoiler for HM arc, upto chapter 313:
There are a few possible explanations for this change:

1) Ichigo wants to settle score for all the damage that's been done to his friends by Aizen and co.
2) He realizes that his friends will never be safe until his enemies are killed.
3) He's beginning to enjoy all the constant fighting and battles, even if he doesn't realize it yet. The Hichigo/Kenpachi side of his personality is manifesting more. I don't mean his inner hollow is taking over or anything. It's just that Hichigo is an aspect of his personality, not a completely alien invader. Now that Ichigo has accepted that part of himself, it's gaining more expression.

If I had to choose one explanation, I personally find number 3 the most intriguing.
Does anyone else spot the same trend of increasing desire to fight in Ichi's actions? Or am I reading too much into recent events? And what could be the reasons behind this change?
By the way, I hope we don't need to bring Ichi-Ruki vs Ichi-Ori into this debate too much?
Personally, I think it's the other way around. In the Manga Ichigo was always fighting and seemed to enjoy it. His wanting to prove his superiority over Ganju proves this. Kubo turned him into a bitch..for awhile. His shit-talking to Grimjow was much like his old self. Nothing to do with shipping.

Thats the cocky, grinning shit-talking, Ichigo I fell in love with. I like his niceness. But I much enjoyed his Gangsta... The shit he talks when first meets Renji...Is what put me on the path...You asked me and I could never tell you what. Thats mostly why I think he is a bad ass. I don't like the "I have no reason to fight you Ichigo" Who is that?! That hasn't been his character since the first chapter. The Ichigo I know and love...Loves to fight.

That and he makes me laugh my ass off. (IchiRuki has nothing to do with this)
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Old 2008-03-09, 19:28   Link #176
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If we stick by the theory that Hichigo only shows traits that Ichigo himself possesses.......then he's one cocky, proud, bloodthirsty bastard deep down .
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Old 2008-03-09, 19:33   Link #177
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Am trying to see if that intent links to his hollow side, Hichigo which falls under the purview of the thread. I admit, the connection is not a very strong one. Anyway, I trust your judgment on this one Geta......so I will move on now and cease posting about this.
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Old 2008-06-09, 21:18   Link #178
sonygamer2010
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dealing with the Hougyoku, i think it has a part in ichigo's hollow powers, but not a huge role. the Hougyoku's ability is to destroy or fade the line between shinigami and hollow. the Hougyoku was in Rukia when ichigo got his first shinigami powers. alot of people think that this is why ichigo is strong and other stuff. i think the some of the power of the Hougyoku was passed on to ichigo, but not all of it. all it did was thin the line between his shinigami powers and his soon to be hollow powers. when he was in the pit, the Hougyoku's power gave him resistance to the hollowfication process and allowed him to gain his shinigami powers as well as his hollow powers. other than that, the Hougyoku is nothing, as its only purpose is to thin, fade, destroy the line between the 2 types, however u want to put it. it did not give him an extra power boost or anything else.

and one more thing, i know this doesnt belong in this thread, but how cool would it be if ichigo used his getsuga tenshoin(i know its spelled wrong) in a twister form in his Bankai state? i think it would look awsome.
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Old 2008-06-16, 23:30   Link #179
AnimeFreak1981
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Originally Posted by sonygamer2010 View Post
dealing with the Hougyoku, i think it has a part in ichigo's hollow powers, but not a huge role. the Hougyoku's ability is to destroy or fade the line between shinigami and hollow. the Hougyoku was in Rukia when ichigo got his first shinigami powers. alot of people think that this is why ichigo is strong and other stuff. i think the some of the power of the Hougyoku was passed on to ichigo, but not all of it. all it did was thin the line between his shinigami powers and his soon to be hollow powers. when he was in the pit, the Hougyoku's power gave him resistance to the hollowfication process and allowed him to gain his shinigami powers as well as his hollow powers. other than that, the Hougyoku is nothing, as its only purpose is to thin, fade, destroy the line between the 2 types, however u want to put it. it did not give him an extra power boost or anything else.

and one more thing, i know this doesnt belong in this thread, but how cool would it be if ichigo used his getsuga tenshoin(i know its spelled wrong) in a twister form in his Bankai state? i think it would look awsome.
The Hougyoku was in Rukia but was protected so really it never released any line between a shinigami and hollow. You need to read the current manga arc and i'm not spoiling anything. But Hougyoku doesn't make him resistance the hollowfication because ichigo is fighting with pure will and strength. So the Hougyoku never did anything to Ichigo at all. Well that is what I think.
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Old 2008-06-17, 07:15   Link #180
cloak_and_dagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
You are wrong.

That's just in the anime. In the manga it's only a doodle at the end of the chapter. Depicting Rukia and the robe. and Urahara's leg. That's when he gave her the gigai...to hide her. Not the Hougyoku. That's an anime boo boo.


Aizen says in the anime and manga. That by the time he found the out the the LOCATION and WHO it was hidden in Rukia had already left.
Since I know you won't take my word for it...I will prove (Hougyoku is a theory I kicked around and I have had my share of Aizen debates in other forums so I know it off gate)
He says this in the anime ep 61 at 20:27-:38

And chapter 175 volume Volume 20 pg 13 & 14

Spoiler for Chapter 175 pages 13 & 14:


Spoiler for Anime ep 61:


So you see the Urahara had already hid the Hougyoku in Rukia before she met Ichigo. And before he fled society. He got exiled for creating the Gigai he gave her. It was a preventative measure in case the location of the Hougyoku was discovered. It was a by chance that Rukia was delivered into his hands.

The Gigai's purpose was to conceal the location of the Hougyoku. It was not the means in which he gave it to her.

Aizens explains this..

Spoiler for Anime episode 61:


Spoiler for Chapter 175 pages 15 & 16:


It's a common mistake. Hoped that helped to clear it up for you.
I can't believe I'm now reading this thanks for clearing that up. I now have to ask this: why in the world did Urahara choose Rukia? We son't even know when he hid the hogyouku in her...Byakuya must not have been happy when he found out..
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