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View Poll Results: Rate the series (final rating)
Perfect 10 54 17.14%
9 out of 10 64 20.32%
8 out of 10 101 32.06%
7 out of 10 54 17.14%
6 out of 10 17 5.40%
5 out of 10 11 3.49%
4 out of 10 8 2.54%
3 out of 10 3 0.95%
2 out of 10 1 0.32%
1 out of 10 2 0.63%
Voters: 315. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-04-07, 15:04   Link #101
Rin-Sama
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Thoes of you who vote below an 8 have no taste.

From all the herum anime's i have seen, only Tenchi Muyo left you gussing who the main male character would end up with in the end. Of course we still don't know who Tenchi ended up with... The way the writers and producers progressed the story was one of the best plots i have ever seen. They managed to fit all the girls' stories into 24 episodes with such great story telling, which with the average anime isn't normally enough time to do so.

With most animes that are 24-26 episodes it feels rushed to get in most of the stories. However this is one of the few animes where they managed to find a good balance between time restraints and story plot. The only other anime which had a good story plot and was told with good development is "Figure 17."

That's why i gave this anime a 10. (And having Rin end up with Asa was a plus!)
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Old 2006-04-09, 02:24   Link #102
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Ok, is it just me or does Rin from Shuffle! look dead up like Takayuki from KGNE (Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, one of the best anime's ever!)

Takayuki:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5.../bscap0001.jpg

Rin:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5.../bscap0000.jpg
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Old 2006-04-09, 03:38   Link #103
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikku
Ok, is it just me or does Rin from Shuffle! look dead up like Takayuki from KGNE (Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, one of the best anime's ever!)

Takayuki:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5.../bscap0001.jpg

Rin:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5.../bscap0000.jpg
Well, they are both retarded, they end up with the worst girl possible. Yes, I think they 're related
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Old 2006-04-09, 04:27   Link #104
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ man , i couldnt agree more
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Old 2006-04-09, 04:39   Link #105
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i think most of harem anime this have their male lead with a same style ~spiky hair thing~.....(with a different character) ...
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Old 2006-04-09, 05:08   Link #106
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Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
Thoes of you who vote below an 8 have no taste.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this comment.

Anyway, I gave it a 3 in my review. My biggest problem was the inanity of the first half... it was just so quintessentially harem-like and uninspired. Then the second half was overly melodramatic. Oh yeah, and I thought the characters were flat and horribly cliched. Particulary Sia and Nerine... I have no qualms with saying that this anime was at its best whenever they weren't on screen.

This is pretty much harem-staple, which is why I sorta understand why it's popular among harem fans. And the animation and fanservice are pretty good as well. But for us non-harem fans or people who want something with a little more intellectual weight, I strongly recommend against this.

And, no, I'm pretty sure I have taste... quite refined taste in anime, if I may boast... and I don't particularly appreciate posts implying that I don't.
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Old 2006-04-09, 05:39   Link #107
npal
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Originally Posted by Sorrow-K
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this comment.

Anyway, I gave it a 3 in my review. My biggest problem was the inanity of the first half... it was just so quintessentially harem-like and uninspired. Then the second half was overly melodramatic. Oh yeah, and I thought the characters were flat and horribly cliched. Particulary Sia and Nerine... I have no qualms with saying that this anime was at its best whenever they weren't on screen.

This is pretty much harem-staple, which is why I sorta understand why it's popular among harem fans. And the animation and fanservice are pretty good as well. But for us non-harem fans or people who want something with a little more intellectual weight, I strongly recommend against this.

And, no, I'm pretty sure I have taste... quite refined taste in anime, if I may boast... and I don't particularly appreciate posts implying that I don't.
Eh, if you aren't a harem fan, why were you watching it? I don't believe anyone was fooled into thinking that Shuffle is NOT a harem anime.
Shuffle has all the inherent weaknesses that harem anime have. But to say it sucks is like I'm saying Doom 3 sucks because I don't like FPS. Or like my father saying Lord of the Rings sucks because it has nothing to do with reality. Well, DUH, if you need something different, watch something different No need to waste time watching something you know you won't like and then writing a review about how it sucked, when you're not even a harem-fan to begin with.

@Rin-Sama About the taste thing, I could say "anyone who likes Asa has no taste" but that's not very objective, is it?

Edit: Unless of course, someone told you that you have to see Kaede's arc
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Old 2006-04-09, 06:02   Link #108
Sorrow-K
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Numerous reasons why I decided to watch Shuffle!, among them being the Kaede arc, but also because I like to keep reasonably up to date with as many popular anime as I can. Shuffle! was much talked about at the time, both by people who liked it and disliked it and I wanted to find out for myself where I stood. Unlike a lot of other people, I don't see 24 episodes as a huge time investment. I also have a passion for reviewing anime, bad or good, which gave me another reason to watch Shuffle! (and a lot of titles in the past that I didn't enjoy).

Anyway, objectivity is exactly the first priority when I reviewed Shuffle, and no matter how I looked at it, it was below mediocre. As a harem it didn't offer much. Most of the characters were unlikable (Kaede and Primula were about the only characters I liked, but even I can admit Kaede is totally unrealistic), the comedy is veeery poor and the drama in the second half was more melodrama than anything else. And as a story it was just too disjointed, formulaic and unoriginal to be considered highly. Like I said in the review, the Kaede arc was the absolute highlight of the series, but the rest was a chore.

But don't think for a moment I hate everything in the harem genre... there are a few rare titles I enjoy like Girls Bravo or Raimuiro Senkitan. But it's a genre that's offered inanity and a real lack of originality or initiative over and over again. Shuffle! very quickly found its equilibrium position within the harem genre and took up residence there... but it didn't offer much I hadn't seen before or I thought wasn't totally stupid.
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Old 2006-04-10, 00:01   Link #109
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^Wow I gave Shuffle a 4 and I came to almost all the same conclusions as you Sorrow-K, please read my review and see if you agree...I think what people who really like the show may find strange is how you like the fanservice or certain aspects of the show, yet as a whole find it totally as you said "disjointed, formulaic and unoriginal to be considered highly." I atleast thought the fanservice was really well done...For obvious reasons ofcourse, but also because unlike most harem shows it was done in a really natural way that was hardley ever forced...I mean some of the best fanservice comes in some of the most emotionally charaged moments, but as you said the series is so sporadic on the whole it's mind-numbing at times...If your gonna fail on story and//or characters atleast be funny...Which this show was not unless Itsuki and Mayumi was on the screen...The most entertaining episode to me was the one that was mostly about Mayumi getting that waitress job...The difference between Shuffle and harem like Love Hina and Ichigo 100% is that those shows atleast know what their core audience wants and has a good level of comedy despite the shows problems...I think the Shuffle writers tried so hard to make it a totally new and creative harem attempt that they made it worse...Taking risks is good, but when it fails your left with pie all over your face...Rabid, froth-mouthed fanclones (like the one that insists it's atleast an 8) are excluded because you can't kill those guys with just a mere fly-swatter...
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Old 2006-04-10, 00:36   Link #110
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Listen i know that several points of the anime was a bit Cliche, but as the saying goes, if it works don't fix it. Most harem animes share alot in common with SHUFFLE!, but that's no reason why to punish it with such low scores.

If you actually sat down and took in the story line before making your mind up before hand about it becasue you don't like harem animes, then you would see that there is a really good story behind it all. I know that saying you try to keep up with the latest animes, and i can respect that, but you already had made up your mind about SHUFFLE! becasue it was another harem anime, and you said you don't like harem animes. So that just leads me to say that you had some sort of predudous against them. (not all since you seem to liek a couple). Yes i do like harem animes alot. But i can garantee that if i was nutral about animes and had just watched SHUFFLE! for the 1st time i know i would have liked it anyway. (8 maybe 9 out of 10)

Yes although i love the harem style animes even I wasn't expecting much from this anime either. I was expecting another typical harem anime where all the girls like the boy and want him, and although that was somewhat the case here there was alot more put into it to make the story REALLY GOOD! Not since the Love Hina Manga had that happend. But what really took me by surprize was that it had alot of plot twists and character development for a 24 episode series. This is one of the few harem animes that i have seen where there was really no main female character until near the end. I've been an anime fan since 1993 and i can tell you few harem animes can really surprize me anymore, but this one did. That's a main reason why i gave it such a high rateing.

Useually in most harem animes there is a single main female character that you know will be the one the main male character chooses. With SHUFFLE! however although it appeared that the was a single main female character it quickly showed that there wasn't. In fact the main male charcter (Rin) choose what seemed to be just a side character at 1st.

THAT'S What made SHUFFLE! stand out the most from other harem animes! The story didn't revolve around a single male and female character with many main-side characters, it chose to have ALL the female charcters in a main-side character role until near the end with Rin chose one of the girls. And it was the one that you probably least expected, Asa.

All in all yes SHUFFLE! used alot of the time tested values of the typical harem anime but they put many twists to them and even added a few plots of their own. (EX. Kaede seemingly a kind and caring girl actually turned out to be a psycotic violent person.) So to say that SHUFFLE! followes the typical mediocer harem anime plot is false. This harem anime had many of it's own unique plots and harem twists.

So i have to agree with npal on this one. And although he doesn't like Asa and I don't Like Kaede all that much, Im sure he agrees that this was a fun, unique, and very enjoyable anime to watch.
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Old 2006-04-10, 01:31   Link #111
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Originally Posted by Rin-sama
THAT'S What made SHUFFLE! stand out the most from other harem animes! The story didn't revolve around a single male and female character with many main-side characters, it chose to have ALL the female charcters in a main-side character role until near the end with Rin chose one of the girls

And also eating a whole pie (while it looks delicious) will actually make you sick...Being creative and trying to shift and pull plot twists outta nowhere and trying to cater different aspects of the show to every female character while it may seem innovative at the same time it can also hurt character development and wind up making a sporadic mess of things...Something has to give, you can't do all the creative things Shuffle tries to pull off in a 24 ep anime series and not have something suffer because of it...

First half of series light, second half of series serious...Characters like Nerine get fleshed out in the first half dissapear in the second half...Character development given to Sia in the first half is stripped away and her character nuetralized by lame plot device in the second half...Primula arc feeling like it was in a whole different series...Kaede being a zero-factor in the entire series accept for her arc...Asa giving great advice to everyone which makes her appear smart, but uses the dumbest logic ever for not using her powers...The whole Magic concept of the story being ridiculously episodic...on and on...Now everyone's entitled to like what they want, but if Shuffle was a pie you couldn't fit all that filling under one crust...As strange as this sounds I believe you have to have some sense of a coherent focus and not really depend on the audience to dumb themselves down on countless plot points and happenings...

Harem is a genre where you can't please every fan because people are gonna have their favorites, so trying to give everybody a resolution seems beyond pretentious and ultimatley has to betray characters...There's no getting around this...The people that don't seem to praise Shuffle seem to give similiar reasons that I have...Now if your just a fanboy alot of this isn't going to be considered because you may care about something superficial that's gonna make you love the series regardless...Hell Shuffle is extremely popular, most of that is guys and girls liking the characters not necessarily a ride on a coherent roller-coaster...


Quote:
And it was the one that you probably least expected, Asa.
Well I'm no genious, but I thought ASA would win early on because she was the only girl Rin seemed to be himself around (with the other girls at times he was just trying to be courteus and respectful of their feelings)..Then when the writers started to make characters drop off like asinine flies my only hope was that they didn't do the obvious thing, but they did (They even made Kaede and Sia sacrificial lambs)...
Sia: "Lets set Rin and Asa out on a date yet still secretly love him..." Kaede: "Asa has given me permission to still love Rin.." (Does it get anymore hurtful and unrealistic than that? I see why her fans want blood)... So I have a different take...
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Old 2006-04-10, 02:17   Link #112
Rin-Sama
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Well the one thing that this anime also tried to confy is it's potral of real life (excluding the demons and gods of course!) Life is rarely fair. So if it seemed unfair to Kade that's the way life goes!

And true that being inovative and putting a new spin on things could end up hurting you in the end, with SHUFFLE! it actually worked out for the better, it had GREAT character development even though it was only 24 episodes. "They even made Kaede and Sia sacrificial lambs." well buddy that's what happends in just about every harem anime series right? There is always some girl (or guy if it's a reverse harem ex. Fushigi Yuugi) that alwasy has to give up her chances to let the main male character to follow his heart. (Shinobu from Love Hina for example)

About Kaede, yes that was the point to have her seem phazed out until the end, how else were they going to show her psycotic side come back becasue of neglict? And the point of Primula's arc was so everyone could get the jist down of what Project Yadrisllie (spelling!) was really about so they could introduce it into Asa's arc later on to explain why she's so sick.

Asa had her reasons why she didn't want to use her powers. Mainly becasue she felt that she would betray her humanity if she used it and becasue it was after Ama showed her that she wasn't human and cried so hard when Asa was a child which made her not want to see her mother cry again. She beleive that if she did use her powers it would end up hurting her mother for some reason. Yes i know it doesn't make much since but who knows how someone thinks when something effects them so greatly when they are a child.

As for what Sia and Kaede said i think they are the ones being sneaky and ready to backstab Asa at a moments notice. They're just waiting for when one little spat or argument that would cause Asa and Rin to have a "crack" in their relationship and then they will just jump right in to fill it.

Asa and Rin's relationship developed naturually while Sia, Narine, and Kaede tried to force a relationship on him, (Well in Narine's defence she really never tried to force a relationship) that's why he chose Asa in the end.

I agree that an anime will never satisfy everyone. there is always someone who wants it to go different and will complain about it until the last dieing breath. (Kaede fans know what i mean) But that just becasue it didn't go the way you wanted it doesn't mean you still hate it. Most of the time people like, or at least understand, why an anime series went the way it did.

I guess what i am tring to convay is that most animes try to find a compromize between time, character development, plot, and story telling, (with other various values, like comedy, death, unexpected turns etc.) in order to reach the most fans possible and them liking it. No anime will ever get 100% of everyone to like it, but most try to reach the largest portion. SHUFFLE! in my opinion did a GREAT job in succeding to do this to the best of their ability. So in NOWAY will i concider this a bad anime.

And besides this anime was based off of an H-game in the 1st place. So most of the story line that the anime used came from there! If you didn't like how it ended then get the game and have Rin end up with the girl you wanted him to!
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Old 2006-04-10, 02:39   Link #113
npal
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Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
Well the one thing that this anime also tried to confy is it's potral of real life (excluding the demons and gods of course!) Life is rarely fair. So if it seemed unfair to Kade that's the way life goes!
Remind me why I have to watch life being unfair in entertainment media, too? If you exclude demons, gods, magic and a zombie who can't make any decisions most of the time, that's real life, but then, if we take all of this out, is it still Shuffle? Plus, there's a difference in HOW you tell the audience that life is unfair. It's one thing to make an adventure when someone gives his life so others can live and other to convey the message that backstabbing your friends is part of life.


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Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
Asa had her reasons why she didn't want to use her powers. Mainly becasue she felt that she would betray her humanity if she used it and becasue it was after Ama showed her that she wasn't human and cried so hard when Asa was a child which made her not want to see her mother cry again. She beleive that if she did use her powers it would end up hurting her mother for some reason. Yes i know it doesn't make much since but who knows how someone thinks when something effects them so greatly when they are a child.
Strange how most Asa fans don't comment much about Asa's reasoning. Obviously they don't have much to say about irrationality in its glory. Plus, Asa was portrayed as a very logical and intelligent individual who had rationalized why she's not using magic. Eh, if that's the level of reason she can achieve, her whole character development is wrong. If something is unconscious, you either fail to describe it, or it comes up to the surface and you discard it because you see it for what it is. Asa was very kind to describe that she doesn't want to hurt Ama (duh..)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
As for what Sia and Kaede said i think they are the ones being sneaky and ready to backstab Asa at a moments notice. They're just waiting for when one little spat or argument that would cause Asa and Rin to have a "crack" in their relationship and then they will just jump right in to fill it.

Asa and Rin's relationship developed naturually while Sia, Narine, and Kaede tried to force a relationship on him, (Well in Narine's defence she really never tried to force a relationship) that's why he chose Asa in the end.
Sneaky and ready to backstab? That's called revenge against the treacherous friend (at least for Kaede). That's the only logical aftermath I can accept.

Sia's relationship didn't develop naturally? Why? Just because she appeared one day and said she's gonna marry him? Well, that could be an interesting pickup line But other than that, their relationship was proceeding ok, until Sia got wet feet and Kikyou thought she could do better. I thought the kiss scene in the beach was pretty natural. The only unnatural thing I saw is how Rin neglects Kaede all the time but still loves her as a sister (yeah yeah, love my *ss). RinxAsa relationship is natural, sure, as a product of betrayal from both parties. And yes, I'll say that until my last breath .
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Old 2006-04-10, 02:51   Link #114
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Originally Posted by Rin-sama
And true that being inovative and putting a new spin on things could end up hurting you in the end, with SHUFFLE! it actually worked out for the better, it had GREAT character development even though it was only 24 episodes. "They even made Kaede and Sia sacrificial lambs." well buddy that's what happends in just about every harem anime series right? There is always some girl (or guy if it's a reverse harem ex. Fushigi Yuugi) that alwasy has to give up her chances to let the main male character to follow his heart. (Shinobu from Love Hina for example)
But that's the thing, they weren't sacrificial lambs in the sense that they acted rationally and what happened is "Just life"...They were lambs in the sense their character development was betrayed to some extent to resolve their part of the story...It's like, "Oh $hit we only have 5 episodes left so lets kill off Kaede and Sia..." (Based on their actual character development the way they went out seemd forced by the powers that be, not natural progression as seemed to be the case with Shinobu and company)
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Old 2006-04-10, 03:01   Link #115
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npal ... if you in fact read what we wrote and not what you want to read to fit your cognitive dissonance ... you can acturally pretty clearly read that everyone agree that the reasoning have a large degree of cognitive dissonance (she thinks that Ama hate the fact that she is a demon and would therefore rather die than remind her about her heritage)...

And yeah ... both Sia and Keade (and to a lesser degree Nerine) was rather pushy and trying to get Rin to chose before he was ready to do it ... yeah, he might be a slowpoke there but thats not the point ... the point is that they are pushy and is pushing him towards Asa who eventhough she let him know that she likes him, just keep nugding him when he reach a standstill and get him moving again (and not pushing him in a certain direction)

and i can no matter how good i look see how Rin retray Keade (i may see the slight point when talking about Sia but that was just a simple turndown)... he sees her only as a sister and nothing more ... thats a basic level of understanding i never think Keade-fans have reached ... would you (theoraticly) think of a girl you lived with since you were 5-6 years old as anything other than a sister?? ... no ... if then you should first find out with yourself if it was incest between brother and sister (and that might be a problem because incest is not just bloodrelated but also socially configured)

Wing: now your talking about failure from the producers about cutting the wire to late
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Old 2006-04-10, 03:49   Link #116
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^I'm not sure if it was production or if it had been entirely planned the way I described (Who knows? The results would have been much the same either way)...all I do know is, that's the impression it made on me while watching it...A progression that seemed forced and not one that seemed natural or honest to the prior character dynamics established...But even if that isn't true, something like Kaede's resolution (relationship with Asa included) seemed illogical even if it didn't betray the character (which it still seemed to do)...
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Old 2006-04-10, 08:35   Link #117
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Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
That's why i gave this anime a 10. (And having Rin end up with Asa was a plus!)
I'm sorry but I have to point this out, like stated in my review, harem/bishojo animes have to hanker down and actually pick a character pairing, which the end result isn't always agreeable for some. I think you give this such a high rating is because you got the ending you wanted to see, others didn't but also thankfully alot of people are not letting their fan-club feelings sway their review (by controlling it, no such feeling, or like me: my girl not even being in the math ) personaly I don't think I'll ever see a harem anime get a perfect 10. too many ways there can be mistakes.
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Old 2006-04-10, 10:28   Link #118
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I think if many of the posters had prefaced their reviews over the last few pages with the important phrase, "IN MY OPINION" there'd be a lot less flack. Asserting your opinion as if it were fact usually reduces its credibility to any thinking person.

The following is therefore my opinion and based on my experience with literature and drama in general:
Wingdarkness seems to share some of my thoughts about the nature of the progression. I often use the marionette/puppet show metaphor. Really well acted, you forget the strings are there. In Shuffle!'s case, not only do we notice the strings, they damn near rip the puppets apart they are jerked so hard.

From my observation of the series, the "Asa-win" was pretty much a given almost from episode 1, though I hoped the series would stay light-hearted and we'd end up with a polygamous solution for a nice fluffy ending. Nerine had already spotted the Asa submarine by ep 4 and confirmed it to herself just before they went to rescue Primula.

As far as Shuffle! being "mediocre" as a harem series as defined by people who also profess not to like harem genre shows.... <shrug> I think we can sort of discount those. I don't like magical girl shows or "catch the monster" shows so I don't pretend to be expert in which ones are best of their category. I can only provide an opinion of which ones I think are well written or piqued my interest.

Certain arcs of Shuffle! I consider very well written, but the "disjointed" critique I tend to side with. I also believe that a fair amount of the other writing was a serious disservice to the characters, especially Asa. Kaede and Sia got some of the best writing for their arcs (though both got abysmally written cutoffs at the end of their stories). Nerine got incrementally left out and never really got to "play". Asa's character was developed as mature and wise and then they blew it up by making her sound abysmally stupid in her rationale for not using magic (though I have to say her undercutting Kaede made for some good tragedy and flawed character work, it was also violation of the type of character they had made her out to be earlier since she never expressed a bit of concern for Kaede's feelings until Kaede was completely shattered)

I guess I'll never really understand this "root for a girl to win no matter how lame the story was in getting there" mentality. I'd rather see my favorite girl go down in well-written flames and I be able to understand the motivations and rationale for the characters for the decisions they make. In LOTR, I love Boromir and Gollum --- they fail and you understand why. In Paradise Lost, you understand why Lucifer makes his choices. In Shakespeare.. well you get the idea I hope. Anime has great potential for telling really interesting stories.
Shuffle! could have been great light romance comedy, it could have been really good dramatic tragedy... great premise, good character design. It just misfired and a lot of the antagonism about it was because of the potential it had.
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Old 2006-04-10, 11:48   Link #119
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That's interesting, in my opinion, the Kaede arc was the transition from "kind of mediocre, occasionally funny" to "trainwreck bad, can't keep my eyes off of it".

Sort of like Mai Otome when Nagi finally unleashes his "plan".
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Old 2006-04-10, 13:41   Link #120
Rin-Sama
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Where did it misfire? I really think the producers of SHUFFLE did an exsallent job witht he anime.

I have been an anime fon for 13 years now (off an on for more than 16) and i have watched more than 170 animes so i have seen my share of good and bad animes, and i can say for certian that SHUFFLE! was a VERY good anime series.
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