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Old 2010-05-26, 08:27   Link #2601
orangejuicetang
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Perhaps his body wasn't big enough to block all the bullets, and his lance movements only deflected the ones that would have gone around him anyway? I mean, it's not like Zero Lancer was huge like Zero Rider. And plus, it's likely that some bullets did hit Zero Lancer, and did absolutely nothing, since there was this line.

Quote:
Lancer stared at Kiritsugu, who was mentally wavering, with a look as cold as ice. He shifted both spears into his right hand, emptying out his left hand to scoop up Kayneth’s body. Kiritsugu didn’t rashly attack this apparently defenceless move. He had just confirmed that bullets are useless to Servants.
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Old 2010-05-27, 14:01   Link #2602
Arbitres
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Quote:

This thread seems to be pretty active so let me just ask this...

For anyone that's watched/read/played Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai, what are the similarities and differences between Fate/Stay Night and the other two? I'm planning on watching Fate/Night Stay and i want to know....
Moved from Final Thoughts & Impressions to here.
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Old 2010-05-27, 14:02   Link #2603
Haak
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^ Dude, i was just about to do that. D=

Well I'm shit, I'm doing it anyway:

For anyone that's watched/read/played Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai, what are the similarities and differences between Fate/Stay Night and the other two? I'm planning on watching Fate/Night Stay and i want to know....
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Old 2010-05-27, 16:05   Link #2604
Cherry_Lover
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Well, they're set in the same multiverse, and written by the same writer, but in general they're entirely separate stories.
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Old 2010-05-30, 04:34   Link #2605
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Which method of mana transfer is actually canonical? The way described in FSN or the method in Fate Realta Nua?
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Old 2010-05-30, 05:30   Link #2606
orangejuicetang
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My guess? Both. There's probably more than one method of mana transfer.
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Old 2010-05-30, 10:19   Link #2607
Cherry_Lover
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If any method is more canonical, though, then it is almost certainly the Deus Sex Machina method, since it's the original one, and the other version is only there to appease the censors.

Incidentally, I'm not overly convinced that what Rin does in RN UBW is canonical, because if that were an option in the original game, surely Rin would have taken it (rather than the exceptionally uncomfortable sex scene that she clearly wasn't emotionally ready for). And, most likely, the same applies to Fate (although probably not to HF, since I'm pretty sure Sakura would have taken the sexual option quite happily even if there was another alternative...).
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Old 2010-05-30, 10:23   Link #2608
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
^ Dude, i was just about to do that. D=

Well I'm shit, I'm doing it anyway:

For anyone that's watched/read/played Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai, what are the similarities and differences between Fate/Stay Night and the other two? I'm planning on watching Fate/Night Stay and i want to know....
same source writer, but studio deen got amalgamation fever when they produced the anime so you get basically a butchered version of the games first two story lines with a splash of the third. If you want to dive in to the fate/stay night genre, pick up the game and play that, it's more satisfying and you don't have terrible CG dragons. Also from story telling point their probably different as KnK is like a procedural, probably it's closer to tuskihime, and the characters are somewhat related, but overall it's more about questioning fate kinda stuff.
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Old 2010-06-02, 01:46   Link #2609
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What exactly are Kotomine Kirei's abilities? As a combatant, does he fight like a Magus or more like an Executor?
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Old 2010-06-02, 07:50   Link #2610
orangejuicetang
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Executor

(lol 10 character minimum)
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Old 2010-06-03, 00:54   Link #2611
Polar_Lord
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How does an Executor fight?
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Old 2010-06-03, 01:24   Link #2612
orangejuicetang
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Like a weaker version of ciel.

Assassin, chucking black keys, holding black keys in his hands like wolverine, striking from the shadow, using some weird form of bai quan (or whatever Miyako uses in Melty Blood) which is apparently enough for him to uproot entire full grown trees with just his feet, ect.
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Old 2010-06-04, 09:45   Link #2613
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Does Kirei actually use thaumaturgy during battle? Or does he only use it for healing?

And what would be the difference between battle power and thaumaturgy power?
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Old 2010-06-08, 12:57   Link #2614
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Thaumaturgy? Well sure they'll use that but expect a holy version of one.

Their elemental affinities would be this:

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Ether

エーテル

The Fifth Imaginary Element according to the teachings of the Mage’s Association, it combines itself with any of the other four Elements in order to actualize the mysteries of Thaumaturgy. Although amorphous and incapable of materializing by its own power, it is what allows shapeless bodies to take a material form. Before the advent of Kurokiri Satsuki’s theory on the United Language, it was believed that the reason why mankind was capable of performing powerful mysteries during the Age of Gods was because the positioning of the others' celestial bodies in relation to Earth made the world rich with Ether. Purest, raw form of Grain, its domains are among the lines of composition, dissolution, modification, separation, unification, spiritual bodies, conceptual weapons and others. Known sub-elements: Life, Holy and Eastern Divinations.
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Old 2010-06-09, 21:47   Link #2615
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Quote:
Nasu: Rin really is a genius. Given time, she'll enter within the top 100 magi of the Association throughout its entire history. Shirou won't move out from being an magus apprentice, but as a spell-user, he'll be among one of the big specialists. Ultimately, he'll receive an evaluation on the same level as "Magus Killer" Emiya Kiritsugu had in his peak, maybe. If I were to put into simple numbers, Ciel: 100, Rin: 70-100, Shirou: 10 (under particular limited conditions, then 40).

(Note that the Association has been around since the Middle Ages and is also going to include Atlas and Sea of Estray; also note that this isn't battle power but thaumaturgy power.)

With regards to this quote by Nasu, how is it that Shirou can have a Top 10 ranking (on his best days) when Rin is only in the 70-100 range, considering the fact that Rin is a much more accomplished magus than Shirou?

Last edited by Polar_Lord; 2010-06-09 at 21:47. Reason: Grammar
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Old 2010-06-09, 22:20   Link #2616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar_Lord View Post
With regards to this quote by Nasu, how is it that Shirou can have a Top 10 ranking (on his best days) when Rin is only in the 70-100 range, considering the fact that Rin is a much more accomplished magus than Shirou?
Simply because he's truly that ridiculous. Shirou will never be a good mage and he'll have very little variety in the thaumaturgy he can do, but his skill in tracing/gradation air is one-of-a-kind. There will, likely, never be another mage as skilled at that as Shirou while Rin, as good as she is, won't develop any particular skill to that extreme. As a whole, Rin is certainly the better mage, but she lacks any big spells (until she masters the 2nd anyways).
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Old 2010-06-10, 08:47   Link #2617
Cherry_Lover
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Err, no, you've got it the wrong way around.

The 10 isn't a ranking, it's his power level. In other words, Nasu is saying that Shirou is 10 times weaker than Ciel/Rin, or (under certain circumstances) about half as strong as Rin.

What he's saying is that Shirou << Rin, except if it a situation which involves tracing, and then he's not too far behind her....
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Old 2010-06-10, 10:13   Link #2618
Polar_Lord
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Ohh, thanks for that Cherry Lover. Now that comment about the numbers being thaumaturgy power and not battle power make a lot more sense.

I would guess that if it were battle power, Shirou would be significantly higher especially with regards to Servant combat?
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Old 2010-06-10, 11:23   Link #2619
Cherry_Lover
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Yeah, probably. Although, it depends on the servant and Rin's jewel supply.

The reason Rin fails so badly at fighting servants is because she fights ones who are best suited to fighting against her, like Saber (because of her magic resistance) and Caster (because she's a better magus than Rin). Against a servant with no magic resistance, she would probably be pretty good.
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Old 2010-06-17, 08:18   Link #2620
willyvereb
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I doubt. Almost every Servant has magic resistance and even if she succeeds breaking that(aka she uses up one of her jewels or more) first she needs to hit the target. Also there are few Servants with so ridiculously high durability that even if she succeeds hitting them it wouldn't do much damage(examples are Gilgamesh in his armor and Berserker...the later through couldn't handle the combined power of 3-4 jewels...the same may apply to Gil).

Generally the Servants are much more stronger than any mage(except the magicians...and even they do have difficulties dealing with them. Aoko for example can't beat Caster in a full-on battle)

Regarding Kotomine:
He's an Executor who specialized fighting mages. He possesses near inhuman physique with grand experience. As others stated he can chop trees in two without any assistance of magic. He can run at 70km/h for example...a monster in the appearance of human. Plus he learned a few magics shortly before the Grail War and has quite a skill too at exorcism. And yes, he uses Black Keys. 1kg heavy throwing swords which he could throw as easily as shurikens. It's no surprise that Rin would lose against him in 8 fights out of 10(stated by Nasu). To repeat myself: he's a monster.
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