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Old 2012-05-27, 16:03   Link #3521
hinode
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Saber is getting mana from Kiritsugu, her master. Kayneth is the only one who found a way to cheat the system and let a different magus feed mana to the servant while retaining his rights as a master.

I want to say Saber's capable of using Excalibur twice a day under Kiritsugu without running out, but I can't find any backing for this right now so I could be way off here. She's definately capable of using it more than once a day at least, and she's had several days to recharge since the Caster fight.
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Old 2012-05-27, 16:45   Link #3522
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Myname View Post
How many times can Saber use Excalibur and how much mana does it cost her? I mean why would she just use right at the start of the fight if it's her ultimate weapon.
Keep in mind the strength of the attack is variable.
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Old 2012-05-27, 18:58   Link #3523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinode View Post
Saber is getting mana from Kiritsugu, her master. Kayneth is the only one who found a way to cheat the system and let a different magus feed mana to the servant while retaining his rights as a master.

I want to say Saber's capable of using Excalibur twice a day under Kiritsugu without running out, but I can't find any backing for this right now so I could be way off here. She's definately capable of using it more than once a day at least, and she's had several days to recharge since the Caster fight.
that is what Kayneth thinks, Iri is the one supplying prana to Saber.
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Old 2012-05-27, 19:25   Link #3524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
that is what Kayneth thinks, Iri is the one supplying prana to Saber.
This is not true. Where was this stated? Saber was only Iri's bodyguard and a way to fool the other masters in to thinking Iri was Sabers master. Giving Kiristugu the opportunity to kill the when they where preoccupied with Iri and Saber.

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2012-05-28 at 10:08.
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Old 2012-05-27, 23:48   Link #3525
Kimidori
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are Heroic Spririts enchanted with superhuman strength when they become Servant or they was that strong during their lifetime?
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Old 2012-05-28, 03:01   Link #3526
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Originally Posted by Kimidori View Post
are Heroic Spririts enchanted with superhuman strength when they become Servant or they was that strong during their lifetime?
Kind of both.
Proto Heroic Spirits AKA heroes in their lifetime were often demigods or people with special heritage. Even if not they lived in age when the magic was far more prosperous. As such heroic spirits are far above the modern magi in power.

On the other hand, yes. Most of them do get a considerable boost from becoming a Heroic Spirits. In the Nasuverse myths and legends have power. For example Iskander was believed to be the son of Zeus. As such he has some degree of Divinity. Or it was explained if Lancer(FSN) would've summoned in Ireland, he would gain a castle and chariot to use because he's very famous there.

So heroes of the old age are pretty strong but indeed. Becoming a Heroic Spirit usualy grants them some sort of boost.

Although Servants are a nerfed version of Heroic Spirits. Their scope of abilities are toned down according to their class (for example Cu Chunnlain didn't get his sword Fragarach because he's of Lancer class). Furthermore unless they have a very powerful Master, their abilities are also limited compared to their original selves.
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Old 2012-05-28, 03:03   Link #3527
LostHanyou
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Lol... Despite how Nasu tried to rationalize it, it seems like it's more 'whatever the author feels like'.

I mean, it's acknowledged that Heracles is one of the most famous heroes. Yet Berserker is nerfed to hell compared to the mythological hero. Meanwhile King Arthur has Excaliblast
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Old 2012-05-28, 03:10   Link #3528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostHanyou View Post
Lol... Despite how Nasu tried to rationalize it, it seems like it's more 'whatever the author feels like'.

I mean, it's acknowledged that Heracles is one of the most famous heroes. Yet Berserker is nerfed to hell compared to the mythological hero. Meanwhile King Arthur has Excaliblast
Probably because no matter how awesome master Illya was, she cannot supply enough magic energy to restore Heracles to his full power. As for his skills, those are restricted because of the Mad Enchantment.
Yes, in a way Heracles was nerfed to hell. He's still amongst the strongest Servants. Frankly, only Gilgamesh was above him.

As for Excaliblast, that's something Saber supposedly had in her lifetime. Maybe it got enhanced somewhat by Excalibur being the symbol of chivalry.
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Old 2012-05-28, 06:22   Link #3529
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it is said on type-moon wiki
Quote:
Those that shouldn’t be within the Heroic Spirits group, but are nevertheless due to a loophole in the rules. Villains whose atrocious acts were ultimately beneficial to mankind and then became Heroic Spirits due to their great reputation. Naturally, these pure Anti-Heroes are few and the great majority of those who fall into this category are simply “accidental heroes” who performed good deeds despite having an evil nature. There are also the unwilling saviors, whose own demises served to save those around them. They are that which was born from humans but developed without the interference of humans, the contradiction created from that becomes something exempt of the pressure of the Counter Force: an enemy of the world.
then i don't understand how Caster (Gilles de Rais) become a Heroic Spirit, he is a normal military commander that don't really stand out and committed child murders in some of his last year before got hanged. i don't see how those crimes are "ultimately beneficial to mankind" or it somehow made him an “accidental heroes”
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Old 2012-05-28, 06:44   Link #3530
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^You can ask the same about Rider.
She was the dreadful Gorgon that killed everything that set foot on the island. Her actions didn't lead to ultimately good...like at all.

Although they may have led to good in a different way. By their tales. These "evil heroic spirits" were kind of similar to Avenger, aka they became icons to be hated and feared. Thus ultimately making people actively try to not become like them and leading a better life.

Perhaps if we use this as a justification then any famous villain from myths and legends have the potential to become a Heroic Spirit. Really, I believe that was Nasu's intention. He just explained it in a roundabout way.
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Old 2012-05-28, 10:15   Link #3531
chaos_alfa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimidori View Post
it is said on type-moon wiki


then i don't understand how Caster (Gilles de Rais) become a Heroic Spirit, he is a normal military commander that don't really stand out and committed child murders in some of his last year before got hanged. i don't see how those crimes are "ultimately beneficial to mankind" or it somehow made him an “accidental heroes”
This is because the Holy Grail become corrupted in the third Holy Grail War if I'm correct.

If someone wants to use Fate/Hollow Ataraxia spoilers to elaborate on this than please put them under spoiler tags.
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Old 2012-05-28, 12:01   Link #3532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimidori View Post
it is said on type-moon wiki


then i don't understand how Caster (Gilles de Rais) become a Heroic Spirit, he is a normal military commander that don't really stand out and committed child murders in some of his last year before got hanged. i don't see how those crimes are "ultimately beneficial to mankind" or it somehow made him an “accidental heroes”
1. the definition of Heroic is somewhat different between East and the Modern West. The term Heroic has more of emphasis on "deeds" then the person itself. Think Theseus, he killed the Minotaur and rescue a whole bunch of people but he was a kidnapper and a rapist.

2. as for Gilles, Zouken actually had something to say about that with his conservation with Kirei but it got cut out. It is a huge spoiler.
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Old 2012-05-28, 14:47   Link #3533
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
1. the definition of Heroic is somewhat different between East and the Modern West. The term Heroic has more of emphasis on "deeds" then the person itself. Think Theseus, he killed the Minotaur and rescue a whole bunch of people but he was a kidnapper and a rapist.

2. as for Gilles, Zouken actually had something to say about that with his conservation with Kirei but it got cut out. It is a huge spoiler.
If it got cut, can you post the spoiler?
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Old 2012-05-28, 15:01   Link #3534
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If it got cut, can you post the spoiler?
Major Spoilers, you have been warn

Spoiler:
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Old 2012-05-28, 15:02   Link #3535
mAc Chaos
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dat lack of working spoiler button
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Old 2012-05-28, 17:37   Link #3536
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Major Spoilers, you have been warn
Spoilers for Fate/Zero, or Fate/Stay?
As in, will this be shown in future episodes?
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Old 2012-05-28, 17:42   Link #3537
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Originally Posted by Witch of Uncertainty View Post
Spoilers for Fate/Zero, or Fate/Stay?
As in, will this be shown in future episodes?
Both, most likely.
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Old 2012-05-28, 17:43   Link #3538
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Originally Posted by Witch of Uncertainty View Post
Spoilers for Fate/Zero, or Fate/Stay?
As in, will this be shown in future episodes?
Both, and yes (maybe not the conversation, but the topic of it).
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Old 2012-05-28, 19:14   Link #3539
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This episode was perfect for me. The flashbacks episodes, Caster Battle perfection too. I love this anime. The saber/bike vs rider/chariot fight was excellent. Animation was top notch and it reminded me of Advent Children's bike sequences only with our lovely Saber and Broskander. Only Rider goes head first into Excalbur. Its why he is so great lol.
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Old 2012-05-31, 06:03   Link #3540
Kimidori
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I read everywhere that Master cannot defeat Servant no mater how skilled they are. but why in Fate/Stay Night and UBW, there a buch of master succeed defeating Servant? some of them even seem to fight equally with Servant (Kuzuki beat Saber, Rin beat Caster and Berserker one time, Shirou beat Archer and Gilgamesh)
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