AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Fate/ Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-06-28, 07:35   Link #3741
Polar_Lord
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
If Zero Berserker had been summoned as a sane Servant, would he still hate Saber enough to doggedly attack her at every chance?
Polar_Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 09:41   Link #3742
Touko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
What did Nasu say exactly regarding the subject?
Ryougi Shiki can only fight average Servants defensively, i.e. not getting killed.

Tohno Shiki was not mentioned in the list as one that can fight Servants, so he is assumed to be incapable to do so.
Touko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 10:53   Link #3743
Doria
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touko View Post
There are different versions. There are versions where she was a Faerie, and there are versions where she was blood-kin of Arthur.

They picked the specific one where incest was involved, made it purposeful instead of accidental, and further exploited it to make it more wtf. And that "making Sabre a futa" part just adds to the wtf.

It's lol Japan. Quit white-knighting. Even the production team and Type Moon felt it was wtf.
Except you make it sound like all these versions are equally well known and/or influential in British literature (originally) and later culture. This is not the case. What is the case, as even a lazy wikipedia search will reveal, is that for at least 700-800 years, Mordred has been widely and usually associated with incest in relation to Arthur (albeit with different women).

It is not that they happened to pick the single version where this is true. Most of the literary treatments of Arthur, which shape our modern understanding of the myth and legend, use a variant on this relationship.

(Now, the gender swapping... I have nothing really to say on that matter, if you're discussing that specifically. Clearly, that is taking some poetic license as the constraints of their particular story demanded. As far as that goes, I guess you're right if you're just saying it's lol fiction.)
Doria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 12:22   Link #3744
Touko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doria View Post
Except you make it sound like all these versions are equally well known and/or influential in British literature (originally) and later culture. This is not the case. What is the case, as even a lazy wikipedia search will reveal, is that for at least 700-800 years, Mordred has been widely and usually associated with incest in relation to Arthur (albeit with different women).

It is not that they happened to pick the single version where this is true. Most of the literary treatments of Arthur, which shape our modern understanding of the myth and legend, use a variant on this relationship.
If you are going to all Wikipedia on this, lol, then Wikipedia says the most prevalent version is that the incest was accidental.

Type Moon had to pick the version where the incest was committed intentionally and specifically by Morgan(if there was indeed such a version), with further malicious plans, and then throw in the futa.

I don't see how your "popular version" argument works. It's still "lol Japan".
Touko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 12:30   Link #3745
Haak
Watching Ookami Shoujo...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar_Lord View Post
If Zero Berserker had been summoned as a sane Servant, would he still hate Saber enough to doggedly attack her at every chance?
I think Berserker dogged Saber in spite of the Mad Enhancement, not because of it. So if Zero Berserker had been sane, he probably would've attacked her even sooner and reveal himself even sooner too.
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 12:50   Link #3746
Touko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I think Berserker dogged Saber in spite of the Mad Enhancement, not because of it. So if Zero Berserker had been sane, he probably would've attacked her even sooner and reveal himself even sooner too.
No, Lancelot activated Mad Enhancement himself because he recognized Sabre and did not want to face her as himself. Lancelot is kind of a shy (not sure if it's the right word, maybe introverted) and hardworking guy.

The rabid Lancelot you saw was a mixture of Lancelot's regret and insanity at work.

If he had no Mad Enhancement, it might actually force him to confront Sabre about all their issues eventually. It is very likely that it would have turned out differently.
Touko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 12:53   Link #3747
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 28
I thought Mad Enhancement was activated when he was summoned via Zouken's two extra lines? I didn't think it was something that could be turned on/off like a light switch, outside of when they were on the brink of death (apparently...).
GDB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 12:55   Link #3748
Touko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I thought Mad Enhancement was activated when he was summoned via Zouken's two extra lines? I didn't think it was something that could be turned on/off like a light switch, outside of when they were on the brink of death (apparently...).
The verses were to place him into the Class.

Lancelot activated Mad Enhancement himself. And I don't think it was turned off ever after that.

EDIT:
Some more info.
Spoiler:
Touko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 15:46   Link #3749
Doria
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I thought Mad Enhancement was activated when he was summoned via Zouken's two extra lines? I didn't think it was something that could be turned on/off like a light switch, outside of when they were on the brink of death (apparently...).
I realize it's inconsistent with the quotation from FSN above, but I think this description is more accurate per Lancelot for FZ, at least based on the novels. It may be an inconsistency in the novels versus the game mechanics, but GDB's description is certainly how they at least ostensibly explain the way it works.

Very possible there is a clearer explanation in FSN itself, as quoted, but it does not seem to apply to Lancelot. Novel 4 clearly says that he's only able to revert to sanity after Kariya's death because the contract that forces the Mad Enhancement is then nullified. Hence, after Kariya dies, Lancelot starts to fade, but he's sane (or at least not Mad Enhanced) as he does.

It's in Act 16 of volume 4. I apologize for not having a specific page handy for you, but the book isn't nearby. Anyhow, they seem to state that he's released from the spell because the contract he was summoned under is gone.
Doria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 18:18   Link #3750
Touko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Zero Material described that Lancelot chose to go into Mad Enhancement.

The part you quoted only talked about cancelling of Mad Enhancement, it did not talk about how it was activated. Mad Enhancement always cancels before the Servant poofs. See Hercules.
Touko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 18:37   Link #3751
chaos_alfa
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touko View Post
Zero Material described that Lancelot chose to go into Mad Enhancement.

The part you quoted only talked about cancelling of Mad Enhancement, it did not talk about how it was activated. Mad Enhancement always cancels before the Servant poofs. See Hercules.
He didn't activate it himself, when he was being called he welcomed the madness. Becoming a beast was the only way to be released from the shackles of being the ideal knight and express his hatred.

Spoiler for Light Novel Excerpt:
chaos_alfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-28, 19:01   Link #3752
Touko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
He didn't activate it himself, when he was being called he welcomed the madness. Becoming a beast was the only way to be released from the shackles of being the ideal knight and express his hatred.

Spoiler for Light Novel Excerpt:
It was his rationale for answering the call. Embracing the summon does not mean instant activation of Mad Enhancement.

Spoiler:


Both Fate/Stay Night and Zero Materials suggested that someone, be it Master or Servant, activates Mad Enhancement. The Fate/Zero novel is ambiguous.
Touko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-29, 02:30   Link #3753
chaos_alfa
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touko View Post
It was his rationale for answering the call. Embracing the summon does not mean instant activation of Mad Enhancement.

Spoiler:


Both Fate/Stay Night and Zero Materials suggested that someone, be it Master or Servant, activates Mad Enhancement. The Fate/Zero novel is ambiguous.

What do you mean with Zero Material the light novel or some other source?
chaos_alfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-29, 02:33   Link #3754
mAc Chaos
King of Heroes
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 28
There's some supplementary materials for both FSN and Fate/Zero called the Materials Collection.
mAc Chaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-29, 05:42   Link #3755
demino_hellsin
That one guy
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
so mad enhancement is self-doping by the servant? And they have a choice in the matter?
demino_hellsin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-29, 15:18   Link #3756
Touko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by demino_hellsin View Post
so mad enhancement is self-doping by the servant? And they have a choice in the matter?
Either by Master or Servant.

Although it seems like you can't turn it off once you turn it on.
Touko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-29, 19:16   Link #3757
chaos_alfa
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touko View Post
Either by Master or Servant.

Although it seems like you can't turn it off once you turn it on.
Has there ever been a Berserker without Mad Enhancement?
chaos_alfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-30, 01:33   Link #3758
Touko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Berserkers always get Mad Enhancement, because it is a skill that comes with the Container.

You are guaranteed to get it, as long as you are Berserker.
Touko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-30, 04:15   Link #3759
demino_hellsin
That one guy
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
so it's not confirmed that mad enhancement can't be turned off?
demino_hellsin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-30, 05:26   Link #3760
chaos_alfa
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Touko View Post
Berserkers always get Mad Enhancement, because it is a skill that comes with the Container.

You are guaranteed to get it, as long as you are Berserker.
Your contradicting yourself. How is Mad Enhancement a choice if every Berserk gets it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Touko View Post
Zero Material described that Lancelot chose to go into Mad Enhancement.

The part you quoted only talked about cancelling of Mad Enhancement, it did not talk about how it was activated. Mad Enhancement always cancels before the Servant poofs. See Hercules.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Touko View Post
Spoiler:
But this part is strange, it suggest Mad Enhancement is a choice.

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2012-06-30 at 06:29.
chaos_alfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.