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Old 2013-08-26, 21:11   Link #4321
Rayneing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
Is it possible to Reinforce Noble Phantasms?
This is pretty much Archer's trademark, so yes.
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:38   Link #4322
bhl88
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Oh good... and I thought since they are already perfect, it's not really needed. I meant non-Traced Noble Phantasms...
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Old 2013-08-27, 02:54   Link #4323
Dengar
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Not all noble phantasms are perfect.

That being said, while using reinforcement on them is possible, it's just as possible (as it is with regular everyday objects) that a poor job of it could do more harm than good.
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Old 2013-08-27, 12:57   Link #4324
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So the magus CG must grasp the structure?
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Old 2013-09-03, 00:55   Link #4325
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Also keep in mind if the object already has any sort of mana inside it, it will be incredibly difficult - if its possible at all - to manipulate it with one's own magic. Since I imagine most Noble Phantasms have some degree of magicness to them, I would imagine it would be near impossible to reinforce most of them.

Archer's case is a bit different, since he is making the Noble Phantasms himself. For starters, he can just make them the way they need to be, he doesn't really need to reinforce them, but theoretically I suppose its possible he could reinforce them thanks to the fact they were made from his own mana. Since he can choose to make them that way in the first place, I don't see why he would bother with reinforcement though.
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Old 2013-09-03, 04:28   Link #4326
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Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
Also keep in mind if the object already has any sort of mana inside it, it will be incredibly difficult - if its possible at all - to manipulate it with one's own magic. Since I imagine most Noble Phantasms have some degree of magicness to them, I would imagine it would be near impossible to reinforce most of them.

Archer's case is a bit different, since he is making the Noble Phantasms himself. For starters, he can just make them the way they need to be, he doesn't really need to reinforce them, but theoretically I suppose its possible he could reinforce them thanks to the fact they were made from his own mana. Since he can choose to make them that way in the first place, I don't see why he would bother with reinforcement though.
Archer did reinforce his weapons a few time. Kanshou and Bakuya Overedge version is an example of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Gradation_Air#Projection_.28Trace_Version.29
The actual reproduction happens within Unlimited Blade Works, and is then brought into the real world at need via Projection. If the image of the projection is interrupted in any way, the item will be physically weak and shatter upon physical impact. It is also possible to apply Reinforcement to objects recorded within Unlimited Blade Works, as demonstrated with Caladbolg II or Kanshou and Bakuya.
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Old 2013-09-03, 23:13   Link #4327
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But only within the Unlimited Blade Works and those aren't real NP. I mean they are as far as effects are concern but they are not the real thing if you want to be precise.

So Archer can or can't reinforce the originals?
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Old 2013-09-03, 23:46   Link #4328
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I'm fairly certain that the nature of Reinforcement would allow him to Reinforce original Noble Phantasms. It's just unlikely he'll be able to get his hands on one, and unlikely that he'll need to given his abilities and combat style.
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Old 2013-09-04, 11:15   Link #4329
Cherry_Lover
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I'm fairly certain that the nature of Reinforcement would allow him to Reinforce original Noble Phantasms. It's just unlikely he'll be able to get his hands on one, and unlikely that he'll need to given his abilities and combat style.
Well, in general it is not possible to use someone else's Noble Phantasm at all, even if you get hold of it. That's why Lancelot's special ability is to allow him to take any weapon and make it his Noble Phantasm.

If Archer did somehow get a Noble Phantasm that was attributed to him, though, I would assume he could reinforce it.
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Old 2013-09-04, 15:26   Link #4330
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Provided he understand the structure of the Noble Phantasm, and figures out what needs enhancing and what doesn't. I don't think this needs saying, but reinforcement isn't just pouring mana into something and somehow magically end up with enhanced stats, it's precision work.
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Old 2013-09-05, 08:01   Link #4331
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Provided he understand the structure of the Noble Phantasm, and figures out what needs enhancing and what doesn't. I don't think this needs saying, but reinforcement isn't just pouring mana into something and somehow magically end up with enhanced stats, it's precision work.
Well, Shirou's abilities allow him to do exactly that, hence why he's able to copy Noble Phantasms in the first place.
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Old 2013-09-05, 10:28   Link #4332
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You mean the "understanding the structure" part. And that's not entirely correct. I refer once again to the Ea example.
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Old 2013-09-05, 15:13   Link #4333
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When did Archer save Shirou with Rho Aius? I can't seem to remember where...
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Old 2013-09-05, 15:25   Link #4334
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As I recall it was only used twice. Once to defend against Gae Bolg in UBW, and once to cushion Excalibur in HF.

EDIT: Oh wait didn't Archer also use it after Shirou defeated Gilgamesh who was trying to take Shirou down with him? Someone else needs to confirm this tho.
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Old 2013-09-05, 15:39   Link #4335
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All I knew is that he threw a dark dagger (the one that HF!Assassin uses)
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Old 2013-09-05, 16:19   Link #4336
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It was that fight, but before it began. Most initially think Shirou was the one using Rho Aias, but it was actually Archer (according to Nasu).
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Old 2013-09-05, 17:20   Link #4337
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You mean that Archer used Rho Aius (4 layered fortress) to block the swordspam?
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Old 2013-09-05, 18:56   Link #4338
chaos_alfa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
You mean that Archer used Rho Aius (4 layered fortress) to block the swordspam?
Here is a quote about what happened in that scene:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Rho_Aias
Complete Material III:
Q: In the end of the Rin route, was it Shirou that projected Rho Aias in the Shirou vs Gilgamesh fight? Or was it Archer? In Fate/side material, it's said that it was projection magic from Archer, but in the story, there was the depiction of Shirou "pulling the shield from the hill". Does this mean that this switched to Archer's scene?
A: This has been easy to misunderstand, but the part about Archer supporting Shirou was the time before Shirou pulled out Rho Aias, before Shirou came to his realization. After Shirou's monologue about his surprise that he was still alive after taking Gil's attack, "If I survived, there must have been a reason why I survived. But that was simply something I didn't have any control over." That was the "Rho Aias" that Archer made to help Shirou in a way that wouldn't let Gilgamesh know there was someone else waiting to ambush him.
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Old 2013-09-06, 03:08   Link #4339
Dengar
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Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
All I knew is that he threw a dark dagger (the one that HF!Assassin uses)
You mean a dirk?
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Old 2013-09-06, 03:46   Link #4340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
You mean a dirk?
That one. I pity the fact that the nonknight classes don't have names in their weapons...
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