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Old 2014-01-14, 18:32   Link #4781
Cherry_Lover
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Yeah, I don't think we're ever told how any of the stuff in FSN is covered-up, just that it is somehow.
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Old 2014-01-14, 18:38   Link #4782
Brother Coa
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As I figured it out the Mage Association and Holy Church have their ways of covering up things...
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Old 2014-01-14, 18:43   Link #4783
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I'd assume the standard gas leak explanation, and for the damage, perhaps a minor fire.
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Old 2014-01-20, 20:13   Link #4784
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Thinking about it might as well be Kirei’s power to make everyone forget stuff. I mean if he can make everyone forget he took a bunch of orphans with him on the Church then I guess making everyone believe that incident at the school was a fail science project or something, isn’t stretching that much. Hey if you really want to stretch it might explain why Zouken doesn’t appear in Fate or Unlimited Blade Works, Kirei made him forget he wanted the Grail.
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Old 2014-01-20, 21:58   Link #4785
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Wat. This is the first time I've heard of Kirei having said ability. Care to elaborate?
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Old 2014-01-21, 11:04   Link #4786
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I don't think they explain it well actually. I just remember that he use some kind of magic that made everyone forget about the orphans. Otherwise I wonder how nobody notice that the priest who took them in live all alone in the church.
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Old 2014-01-21, 18:06   Link #4787
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Its never suggested that Kirei has such a power. The Church as a whole (remember Kirei wasn't even the church's priest at the time) offered to take in the orphans, and Kirei used that to his advantage. If a large group of orphans went to a church and were never heard about again, most people would be happy. The first thing that would come to mind isn't that something bad happened to them.

The Church and the Magic Association using memory tricks isn't that far-fetched though. And since Kirei has experience with both organizations, its not altogether unlikely that he could manage such a thing.

Memory tricks definitely wouldn't work on Zouken though. Honestly the abnormality in his behaviour is that he participated in Heaven's Feel, not that he skipped out on Fate and UBW.
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Old 2014-01-22, 07:33   Link #4788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I'd assume the standard gas leak explanation, and for the damage, perhaps a minor fire.
Wouldn't make much sense that they could reasonably cover up the 4th war, given the huge amount of deaths (over 400 deaths in a huge inferno that took out a good part of the city, as opposed to say, the 50 disappearances in HF).

The Einzberns fund repairing the damage caused in the wars, but with the way mind altering magic works, it couldn't feasibly work after the 4th war's events. There would be too many things to remind people of the gaps in their memories.
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Old 2014-01-22, 08:17   Link #4789
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I was just talking about the school incident during the 5th war. The 4th war's inferno was very clearly not covered up, considering the site of the incident was made a landmark and memorial.
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Old 2014-01-22, 13:19   Link #4790
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
Its never suggested that Kirei has such a power. The Church as a whole (remember Kirei wasn't even the church's priest at the time) offered to take in the orphans, and Kirei used that to his advantage. If a large group of orphans went to a church and were never heard about again, most people would be happy. The first thing that would come to mind isn't that something bad happened to them.

The Church and the Magic Association using memory tricks isn't that far-fetched though. And since Kirei has experience with both organizations, its not altogether unlikely that he could manage such a thing.

Memory tricks definitely wouldn't work on Zouken though. Honestly the abnormality in his behaviour is that he participated in Heaven's Feel, not that he skipped out on Fate and UBW.
They definitely wouldn't work on Zouken. The only reason he didn't get involved in the Fate and UBW routes was just because Sakura, the key to his plans, never got involved like she did in HF.
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Old 2014-01-22, 16:35   Link #4791
Cherry_Lover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
Memory tricks definitely wouldn't work on Zouken though. Honestly the abnormality in his behaviour is that he participated in Heaven's Feel, not that he skipped out on Fate and UBW.
It's not an abnormality, he participated because he thought it was worth it (and, really, he was entirely right, judging by how close he got to achieving his goal relative to the other two routes, where the Grail gets dismantled 10 years later). And, honestly, the difference between HF and the other routes is precisely that Zouken participated in HF. Without that HF would not have happened, and once he gets involved something like HF is inevitable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
Wouldn't make much sense that they could reasonably cover up the 4th war, given the huge amount of deaths (over 400 deaths in a huge inferno that took out a good part of the city, as opposed to say, the 50 disappearances in HF).

The Einzberns fund repairing the damage caused in the wars, but with the way mind altering magic works, it couldn't feasibly work after the 4th war's events. There would be too many things to remind people of the gaps in their memories.
Except that it's canon that they did cover it up. It might be absurd, but it is still canon. I know you think highly of yourself and don't think you can possibly be wrong about anything, but your opinion still doesn't supercede Nasu's.

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I was just talking about the school incident during the 5th war. The 4th war's inferno was very clearly not covered up, considering the site of the incident was made a landmark and memorial.
The fact that something happened wasn't. The exact nature of that something clearly was. The same applies to the school incident. People know that something happened, but not that it was magical in nature.
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Last edited by Cherry_Lover; 2014-01-22 at 20:11.
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Old 2014-01-26, 00:48   Link #4792
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Could Saber have destroyed the grail on her own will without Shirou's command spell?
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Old 2014-01-26, 04:51   Link #4793
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Could Saber have destroyed the grail on her own will without Shirou's command spell?
I got the impression she could.
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Old 2014-01-26, 10:07   Link #4794
Cherry_Lover
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I'm not so sure. Certainly she wanted to destroy it (unlike with Kiritsugu), so why would she ask Shirou to use a command spell if she could have done it without?
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Old 2014-01-26, 10:24   Link #4795
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Saber says at first that Shirou "must give the order" for her to destroy the grail, but follows it up a few pages later by pretty much saying she just wants to hear him say it himself. It's not made explicitly clear, but I feel like she just wanted to make sure Shirou was as resolved as she was.

There's also the fact that destroying the Grail was effectively suicide for her, one for giving up entirely on her wish once and for all, and two because (as far as they knew) destroying the grail would destroy the mechanism that held Saber's contract, meaning she would finally actually go back to her proper time and die for real, never being summoned as a Heroic Spirit again. She may have not trusted herself not to hesitate, and with so much on the line, didn't want to risk it. That's just a theory though.

Edit: It could have also just been Saber attempting for some sense of closure in her relationship with Shirou. It was his last command spell, so she could have asked for it as a symbolic way of saying that their time together, and their contract, was coming to a definite end.
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Old 2014-01-26, 13:21   Link #4796
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
I got the impression she could.
She could but there would likely always be that part of her heart that desires it which would probably make her unconsciously hold back and not be able to destroy it completely.
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Old 2014-01-26, 13:24   Link #4797
GDB
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That or she was truly worried she wouldn't have enough power without backup from a command seal. When she destroyed it before, she had a superior magus who used two Command Seals on the command, and she hadn't really exhausted her energy previously (whereas here she had Excaliblasted Gil, if I'm not mistaken).

Without further support, any or all of these various explanations could be reasons.
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Old 2014-01-27, 07:41   Link #4798
Cherry_Lover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
Edit: It could have also just been Saber attempting for some sense of closure in her relationship with Shirou. It was his last command spell, so she could have asked for it as a symbolic way of saying that their time together, and their contract, was coming to a definite end.
Well, using the last command spell doesn't seem to break the contract, judging from what happens with Rider in HF. But, yeah, I guess it could still be a symbolic thing.

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That or she was truly worried she wouldn't have enough power without backup from a command seal. When she destroyed it before, she had a superior magus who used two Command Seals on the command, and she hadn't really exhausted her energy previously (whereas here she had Excaliblasted Gil, if I'm not mistaken).

Without further support, any or all of these various explanations could be reasons.
Yeah, that's possible. Using a command spell would make sure she had the power to do it (because using a command spell draws on the grail's power to enforce the order), whereas if she didn't then she probably wouldn't have enough prana to use another Excaliblast.
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Old 2014-01-31, 03:25   Link #4799
Brother Coa
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I think Shirou's true attitude is more "people who aren't me shouldn't fight" than "women shouldn't fight". It's just that pretty much everyone he knows who aren't him are female....
I agree, Shirou is type of person who put's the lives of others before his own life ( regardless of gender ).
I just don't know what was people's problem with him having this attitude?
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Old 2014-01-31, 05:37   Link #4800
Usami_Haru
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Because it's fucking sexist and doesn't add anything to his character since he doesn't act that way in the other routes (and it's never really adressed in Fate either) and lastly because even Nasu has said that it was bad writing and only added to make Saber's romance less threathening since Nasu didn't even see Saber as a girl when writing Fate.
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