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Old 2014-02-06, 20:29   Link #4821
Cherry_Lover
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Well, we can never actually say for certain no relic is used, but I do not think using a relic is a requirement to summon a servant.
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Old 2014-02-06, 20:41   Link #4822
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover View Post
Well, we can never actually say for certain no relic is used, but I do not think using a relic is a requirement to summon a servant.
A relic isn't need to be able to summon a servant. This is most explicitly shown with the summoning of Caster in Fate/Zero.
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Old 2014-02-06, 20:54   Link #4823
Cherry_Lover
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I've heard people claim that the blood of the children acts as the catalyst there. Personally I think that is stretching the idea to breaking point (especially since, if the blood of some children is a catalyst, then the master's personality surely can be too...), but it is always possible to find some excuse if you're really looking for one.
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Old 2014-02-06, 21:07   Link #4824
chaos_alfa
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I've heard people claim that the blood of the children acts as the catalyst there. Personally I think that is stretching the idea to breaking point (especially since, if the blood of some children is a catalyst, then the master's personality surely can be too...), but it is always possible to find some excuse if you're really looking for one.
I don't think the blood of some random children can act as a relic. A relic has to be an artifact or object which the servants has some attachment to. Caster has never met those children when he was alive or has any attachment to them.
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Old 2014-02-06, 21:36   Link #4825
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Yeah, if you could make that argument then Tokiomi could've gotten any snake skin to summon Gilgamesh, rather than the first snake's skin, or any slab of stone for Heracles rather than the one specific to him, etc.
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Old 2014-02-07, 09:38   Link #4826
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I think the argument probably stems from the fact that Tohsaka explicitly says in UBW that a relic is necessary, and her thinking that she could do it without one was just naive.

That being said, I think its something more like "if the ritual can find something to use as a relic, it will do so every time" rather than "if the ritual can't find a relic, the summoning fails." For example, I too am skeptical about the whole Caster summoning thing in Fate/Zero - even if there was some sort of catalyst involved, the pairing seems far to appropriate for it to have been decided by another means.

On that note, you can also use the summoning of Assassin in Fate as evidence for summoning without a relic being possible. After all, if he wasn't really an actual person, it would be pretty hard to find some physical object that was connected to him. I'm sure someone can argue the point, but it at least seems to me that the only deciding factor on his summoning was Caster's attributes.
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Old 2014-02-07, 09:46   Link #4827
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She was probably talking about specifically summoning Saber. That was the only real "failure" in her summoning.
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Old 2014-02-07, 09:56   Link #4828
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
I think the argument probably stems from the fact that Tohsaka explicitly says in UBW that a relic is necessary, and her thinking that she could do it without one was just naive.
I don't remember exactly when Tohsaka said that, but I think she was referring in that case to her own botched attempt to summon a Saber class servant, without the use of a relic.

Quote:
That being said, I think its something more like "if the ritual can find something to use as a relic, it will do so every time" rather than "if the ritual can't find a relic, the summoning fails." For example, I too am skeptical about the whole Caster summoning thing in Fate/Zero - even if there was some sort of catalyst involved, the pairing seems far to appropriate for it to have been decided by another means.
I also assume that's the way the summoning process works.

Quote:
On that note, you can also use the summoning of Assassin in Fate as evidence for summoning without a relic being possible. After all, if he wasn't really an actual person, it would be pretty hard to find some physical object that was connected to him. I'm sure someone can argue the point, but it at least seems to me that the only deciding factor on his summoning was Caster's attributes.
Fate Caster being a servant rather than a human probably heavily influenced the summoning process, but it could also be that she manipulated the summoning process through the use of her extensive knowledge of magic.

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2014-02-07 at 11:05.
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Old 2014-02-07, 10:21   Link #4829
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Yeah and similarly if your relic can apply to several heroic spirits you'll probably get the one that suits you the most.
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Old 2014-02-07, 15:01   Link #4830
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The quote I was talking about was when she was talking about (well, monologuing about) when she first found out Archer's true identity. The point was, she thought that she had done the summoning without a relic, but the ritual took her pendant and used it as a relic despite her not having that intention.
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Old 2014-02-08, 11:31   Link #4831
Gx Hero
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agreed Sorry for starting it any further disccusion should be done under a iffrent topic.
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Old 2014-02-11, 21:26   Link #4832
DaItalianFish
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So, uh, this is a somewhat odd question...

For those of you who have watched Code Geass, what do you think Kiritsugu's Geass would be? Every Geass manifests differently, and is usually related to their inner desires/personality. So what would Kiritsugu's Geass manifest as? Any thoughts?
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Old 2014-02-12, 21:16   Link #4833
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That is not a question related to the series itself, is just especulation. This will be better discuss in the crossover section I guess.
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Old 2014-02-18, 03:34   Link #4834
Stanfoo
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Would Kirei die if his contract with Gilgamesh came to an end OR if Gilgamesh dies? Since he was revived because of being connected to Gilgamesh through the contract.
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Old 2014-02-18, 03:38   Link #4835
Rising Dragon
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He was revived because of Angra Mainyu, not because of the contract with Gilgamesh, IIRC.
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Old 2014-02-18, 04:52   Link #4836
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by Stanfoo View Post
Would Kirei die if his contract with Gilgamesh came to an end OR if Gilgamesh dies? Since he was revived because of being connected to Gilgamesh through the contract.
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He was revived because of Angra Mainyu, not because of the contract with Gilgamesh, IIRC.
Being connected to Gilgamesh only made it possible for Angra Mainyu to effect him through the connection. If Gilgamesh dies, Kirei won't be effected by it.
Spoiler for Heaven's Feel:
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Old 2014-02-24, 20:17   Link #4837
bhl88
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So the reason why Iskandar wants to pair up with Gilgamesh is because the Ionion Hetairoi can't materialize Noble Phantasms despite summoning Heroic Spirits?
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Old 2014-02-25, 10:43   Link #4838
chaos_alfa
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So the reason why Iskandar wants to pair up with Gilgamesh is because the Ionion Hetairoi can't materialize Noble Phantasms despite summoning Heroic Spirits?
No, he just like to expand his army with remarkably and capable people. He rather has people be part of his army than having to fight them, if it can be helped.
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Old 2014-02-26, 15:27   Link #4839
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So the reason why Iskandar wants to pair up with Gilgamesh is because the Ionion Hetairoi can't materialize Noble Phantasms despite summoning Heroic Spirits?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
No, he just like to expand his army with remarkably and capable people. He rather has people be part of his army than having to fight them, if it can be helped.
Oh yeah, Iskandar had other kings in his army as well....
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Old 2014-03-05, 17:10   Link #4840
DaItalianFish
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Does anyone remember what day
Spoiler:


I know we don't see it happen, but what day is it mentioned? I've been looking through the scenes and I can't find when it happens. Is it in a specific route?
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