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Old 2014-03-10, 20:27   Link #4881
ukulelembo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
A relic is supposed to be directly linked to the hero. It isn't supposed to be some obscure nonsense.
The whole purpose of the catalyst is narrow the selection of heroic spirits. So using relic directly linked to the hero is just insurance that you summon exactly that servant which you want. But as catalyst generally can serve anything. Even blood and corpses. It just don't narrow down the selection so much as something directly related to hero.
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Old 2014-03-10, 20:30   Link #4882
Touko
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The RyuunosukeXCaster ship transcends time and space.

All you need is the love between two men.
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Old 2014-03-10, 20:47   Link #4883
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukulelembo View Post
The whole purpose of the catalyst is narrow the selection of heroic spirits. So using relic directly linked to the hero is just insurance that you summon exactly that servant which you want. But as catalyst generally can serve anything. Even blood and corpses. It just don't narrow down the selection so much as something directly related to hero.
I'm sorry, but... this is just nonsense. If any common shit could've been used as a catalyst and have a perfect success rate, then there'd be no need for crazy expeditions like searching for a fossil of the first snake to shed its skin, or acquiring the missing scabbard of Excalibur. There is no way that simple blood was a catalyst to summon Gilles.

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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Why get a slab of stone from Heracles' temple when you can just rent the Disney movie?
GDB, come on. Magus. They'd scoff at the idea of picking up a product of technology for a catalyst!
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Old 2014-03-10, 21:06   Link #4884
ukulelembo
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I'm sorry, but... this is just nonsense. If any common shit could've been used as a catalyst and have a perfect success rate, then there'd be no need for crazy expeditions like searching for a fossil of the first snake to shed its skin, or acquiring the missing scabbard of Excalibur. There is no way that simple blood was a catalyst to summon Gilles.
You don't understand. I don't say that any catalyst will give you perfect success rate. I'm just saying that any catalyst narrow down the selection. For example, if you use blood and corpses you definitely don't summon someone like Joan of Arc or similar "saint" person. But you have a higher chance that you summon some murderer or killer. But it doesn't change nothing on fact that there are many heroes who will fit into this description. Fact that Ryuunosuke summoned Gilles was basically just luck caused by their similar personalities.
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Old 2014-03-10, 21:12   Link #4885
GDB
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I'd say if you use blood and corpses, it's because your personality is twisted enough to think that's acceptable, and thus the Servant you summon would also be as such, not because of a catalyst, but because in terms of compatibility, you'd both need to be twisted.

In other words, it isn't a catalyst, you're grasping at straws to try and force a connection when there doesn't need to be one.
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Old 2014-03-10, 21:14   Link #4886
Rising Dragon
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Plus this nonsense about "imperfect success rate" only applies to a catalyst with ties to multiple Heroic Spirits, like the Gates of Troy. And even then it's a proper catalyst, and not just common junk like you're claiming.
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Old 2014-03-10, 21:17   Link #4887
Cherry_Lover
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Originally Posted by Touko View Post
I think it was silver dust/wire, Einzbern style.
Rin/Tokiomi used melted jewels.

I think Waver was using chicken blood?
Ah, OK.

Still, even so, using blood is not uncommon and not a sign of being really twisted.

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Hey, if you can use a god damn book talking about the hero as the catalyst, dead bodies are fair game.
A book is still linked to the actual hero, at least.
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Old 2014-03-10, 21:19   Link #4888
Touko
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I'd say if you use blood and corpses, it's because your personality is twisted enough to think that's acceptable, and thus the Servant you summon would also be as such, not because of a catalyst, but because in terms of compatibility, you'd both need to be twisted.

In other words, it isn't a catalyst, you're grasping at straws to try and force a connection when there doesn't need to be one.
Chill out, bra.

No one is claiming "this is it!".

It's speculation and it is fun. There is no Nasu's last word on this, so you don't get no cookie even if you beat him up.
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Old 2014-03-10, 21:20   Link #4889
Rising Dragon
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This is a thread meant to answer questions with hard facts about the series. This is not a thread for speculation and fun, and frankly I'm surprised a moderator hasn't come down on this thread as a result.
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Old 2014-03-10, 21:22   Link #4890
Touko
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Looking at the track record, I am not too sure about the "hard facts" part.
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Old 2014-03-10, 21:26   Link #4891
Rising Dragon
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Sometimes speculative answers is all that can be given, but this is not the thread for speculation itself. I have seen plenty of speculation tangents in Q&A threads get dozens of posts deleted and infractions/bans handed out as a result of them happening.

Either way, yes, someone supplying incorrect answers is kind of a big deal for this kind of thread.
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Old 2014-03-10, 21:30   Link #4892
ukulelembo
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Plus this nonsense about "imperfect success rate" only applies to a catalyst with ties to multiple Heroic Spirits, like the Gates of Troy. And even then it's a proper catalyst, and not just common junk like you're claiming.
That's not nonsense, it's just the result of action and reaction.
By the way, do you know that Astolfo from Apocrypha was summoned by using just plain filthy glass bottle as catalyst?
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Old 2014-03-11, 03:21   Link #4893
Touko
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Inb4 Apocrypha is fanon.
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Old 2014-03-11, 05:50   Link #4894
ukulelembo
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Inb4 Apocrypha is fanon.
Please, not this shit again. We had already entire discussion about this in different thread. Apocrypha is canon like everything else. Nasu had supervision at creation of Apocrypha and he even personally wrote and designed some key parts and story background.
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Old 2014-03-11, 05:58   Link #4895
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Regarding Fate universe - everything is canon.
Because of the multiverse theory - for every decision another universe was created.
In Fate case - every universe they created ( Dtay Night, Extra, Apocrypha, CCC... ) is real and it happened.
But they are not connected with eachother even if some things have resemblance.
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Old 2014-03-11, 11:03   Link #4896
ukulelembo
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But they are not connected with eachother even if some things have resemblance.
This isn't entirely true. Some things all universes shares (for example, the throne of heroes is the same in every universe). And usually in all universes applies same rules unless isn't stated otherwise.
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Old 2014-03-11, 13:14   Link #4897
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Not connected in a way that if some thing happened in one universe does not mean it happened in other.
Throne of Heroes is the same but they lose their memory when summoned if they have taken part on former Grail War ( Saber and Archer are unique to that rule ). Probably so tha they cannot share their version of the universe and thus shake the balance between them.
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Old 2014-03-11, 18:48   Link #4898
ukulelembo
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Not connected in a way that if some thing happened in one universe does not mean it happened in other.
Again not entirely true. All differences between all universes are usually based on simple butterfly effect which diverge one universe from other at some point (interestingly that it's often the third grail war). Then everything what happened before this point is always the same (unless otherwise stated of course), but even after this point there are sometimes some things which always happen despite all the changes (for example Waver always become Lord El-Melloi II regardless whether fourth grail war normally happens or not, or at least this is true in most currently known universes). Series probably isn't called "Fate" without reason.
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Old 2014-03-12, 11:37   Link #4899
Cherry_Lover
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Originally Posted by ukulelembo View Post
This isn't entirely true. Some things all universes shares (for example, the throne of heroes is the same in every universe).
I believe that that is actually not true. I recall having a discussion a long time ago where evidence was provided that it wasn't, although I don't recall what said evidence was....
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Old 2014-03-12, 12:37   Link #4900
ukulelembo
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I believe that that is actually not true. I recall having a discussion a long time ago where evidence was provided that it wasn't, although I don't recall what said evidence was....
Probably it was some bullshit. The throne of heroes is part of Akasha which is located outside any parallel world or timeframe and thus accessible from any age and any world.
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