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Old 2006-06-06, 10:01   Link #841
Demongod86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlog
I think that we'll see it after but I haven't understood why Kirei is fighting ? What's his wish ? What does he want when he says that he could already give the graal to Saber or Shirou .. Is it a joke or he was serious ... mHHh I'm very confused about it, I'm just wondering what does he really want from this war ? Maybe just a revenge ...
Probably revenge. Because Kiritsugu pwned him.
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Old 2006-06-06, 10:12   Link #842
aldeayeah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erhjegel
[...] she will not be able to summon Gilgamesh, not because he's an Archer in this Grail War, but because of other details.

She will get to summon another Archer Servant different from Gilgamesh and Eirei Emiya.
Not neccesarily another Archer class servant, right? Saber class was available too at the time.

By the way, if Gil had been defeated in the previous war, why couldn't he have been summoned again? (please post a spoiler tagged answer, if neccesary)
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Old 2006-06-06, 10:13   Link #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlog
I think that we'll see it after but I haven't understood why Kirei is fighting ? What's his wish ? What does he want when he says that he could already give the graal to Saber or Shirou .. Is it a joke or he was serious ... mHHh I'm very confused about it, I'm just wondering what does he really want from this war ? Maybe just a revenge ...
Pure speculation on my part right here.

This Grail grants wishes through destruction.

Kotomine is willing to let someone have their wish granted desperately.

A granted wish through this Grail means the destruction of something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldeyeah
Not neccesarily another Archer class servant, right? Saber class was available too at the time.

By the way, if Gil had been defeated in the previous war, why couldn't he have been summoned again? (please post a spoiler tagged answer, if neccesary)
She will get to summon Archer. Assassin, Caster, Berserker, Saber, Rider, Lancer, all were already taken.

Regarding Gilgamesh...

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-06-06, 10:41   Link #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot
Eirei's can be summoned as different classes.

For example, Hercules can be summoned as any class with the exception of Caster.
but that seems kinda wierd...why arent a heroic spirit unique to only that class? so this time saber (king autherina or however you spell it ) is summoned as a saber class then the next time she could become a beserker class?? it seems wierd because its hard to imagine how a soul can fit into so many roles...and doesnt sound logical...eg if king autherina were to be summoned not as saber but caster would she still have excaliber as her weapon?
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Old 2006-06-06, 10:46   Link #845
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Saber doesn't qualify for any other class other then Saber, in Heracles' case he was proficent in many weapons and styles of combat from his legend that he could fit into anyclass except Caster because he cant caste spells.

Eireis can be summoned into differant classes as long as they were proficient in that class or has some skill in that particular area I believe.
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Old 2006-06-06, 12:28   Link #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04
Saber doesn't qualify for any other class other then Saber, in Heracles' case he was proficent in many weapons and styles of combat from his legend that he could fit into anyclass except Caster because he cant caste spells.

Eireis can be summoned into differant classes as long as they were proficient in that class or has some skill in that particular area I believe.
For instance, one can believe Kojirou would have made a perfect Saber Servant.
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Old 2006-06-06, 13:30   Link #847
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Question: in episode 21, Gil pulled out a knife and swung it which froze Saber's arm. The knife, is that the jeweled sword Zelretch? It kinda looks like the knife Rin is wielding. :-/
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Old 2006-06-06, 13:44   Link #848
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It's impossible for Gil to have Zeltrech.
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Old 2006-06-06, 13:52   Link #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer
It's impossible for Gil to have Zeltrech.
Actually that's what I'm thinking too but it really looks like Zelretch.
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Old 2006-06-06, 14:13   Link #850
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Old 2006-06-06, 14:19   Link #851
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Do you see how many weapons he has in the Gate of Babylon? Odds are he has plenty of swords or knifes or axes or scythes that can freeze. He can't have Zeltrech because I don't think it's been created yet (correct me if I'm wrong).
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Old 2006-06-06, 14:34   Link #852
MartianMage
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Well yes, I think that Gil can't have Zelretch. I'm just startled that it looks like Zelretch and the way he used it is the same as how Rin used Zelretch.
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Old 2006-06-06, 14:36   Link #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demon_god04
Saber doesn't qualify for any other class other then Saber, in Heracles' case he was proficent in many weapons and styles of combat from his legend that he could fit into anyclass except Caster because he cant caste spells.

Eireis can be summoned into differant classes as long as they were proficient in that class or has some skill in that particular area I believe.
Why wasn't Archer summoned as a Saber then? The Saber class was available at the time of his summoning and he tends to use swords a whole lot more then his bow... in the anime at least.
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Old 2006-06-06, 14:48   Link #854
Demongod86
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About the grail...what about benevolent wishes though? Like a DBZ-style-bring-back-to-life wish, or a plz-plz-let-Saber-stay-and-become-a-regular-human-girl wish?
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Old 2006-06-06, 14:54   Link #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
Why wasn't Archer summoned as a Saber then? The Saber class was available at the time of his summoning and he tends to use swords a whole lot more then his bow... in the anime at least.
I think what happened was that Saber was not completely unsummoned. I mean, she had that connection with this world because Avalon is inside of Shirou, and maybe that is what prevented anyone else from filling the slot of Saber class.
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Old 2006-06-06, 15:01   Link #856
MartianMage
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Question: How would you determine a servants class if they don't use the proper weapons for their class? I mean how can you say Shirou(archer) is not a saber class when he's using sword? Hercules would qualify as an archer and saber too, right? What if Herc was summoned as an archer. How would you know that he's an archer? For all I know, like Shirou, he'd prefer wielding his big sword. Listen to how their master calls them?
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Old 2006-06-06, 15:29   Link #857
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Shirou-Archer is unique in that respect. But more than in weapons used, it's in the method of attack. Gilgamesh is considered an Archer because he fires his weapons out of gate of babylon.

Archer-Shirou NORMALLY uses a bow, but that's not really shown until Fate/Hollow Ataraxia (as far as I know). Archer's also show independent action (battle vs. Berserker, as well as Gil's ability to survive w/o much help from Kotomine)

Assassins are recognizable by their moves that are pretty much OHK and involve some alternate method of attack (Kojirous Tsubame-Gaeshi and Hassan's 'Puppet Move')

Lancers use lances.

Casters use magic.

Riders ride stuff and are more suitable for stealth attacks imo.

Sabers of course use predominantly swords and are pretty well rounded.

This is how i see it
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Old 2006-06-06, 15:58   Link #858
Archer
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Actually, it was stated in the original game that Shirou was a great archer. He was the best in his school's Archery team, which was why people tried to get him back after he quit.
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Old 2006-06-06, 18:09   Link #859
Village Idiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato
Question: in episode 21, Gil pulled out a knife and swung it which froze Saber's arm. The knife, is that the jeweled sword Zelretch? It kinda looks like the knife Rin is wielding. :-/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
Why wasn't Archer summoned as a Saber then? The Saber class was available at the time of his summoning and he tends to use swords a whole lot more then his bow... in the anime at least.
Archer wouldn't qualify as Saber.

Archer normally doesn't have sword proficiency. It's when Archer Traces a sword, he automatically gains mastery with the blade through the memories of the sword.

Also, Archer's stats are far too low for him to qualify as Saber.

On the other hand, Archer used to be the top archery club member before he quit, hence the Archer Class.
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Old 2006-06-06, 18:37   Link #860
Hemisphere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot
Archer wouldn't qualify as Saber.

Archer normally doesn't have sword proficiency. It's when Archer Traces a sword, he automatically gains mastery with the blade through the memories of the sword.

Also, Archer's stats are far too low for him to qualify as Saber.

On the other hand, Archer used to be the top archery club member before he quit, hence the Archer Class.
Exactly.

Also, Archer class Servants also have an advantage when using their extensive abilities, IIRC. So it's really not disadvantageous for both Gilgamesh and Archer to classify as Archers, what with UBW and Gate of Babylon.
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