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Old 2006-06-08, 17:51   Link #881
roan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon
That's 100% accurate...I'm still wondering...WHY Noble Phantasm? Sure it sounds cool but it is not a good translation...who on earth translated Hougu to Noble Phantasm?

because kinoko (the writer) chose to have it that way, just the same how 壊れた幻想's official english translation is broken phantasm, shirou's arm is artifical phantasm, and arcueid's special ability is officially marble phantasm.

that's how he chose to do it and there's probably a reason why he's sticking to the word phantasm.
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Old 2006-06-08, 21:28   Link #882
iamandragon
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He just want something different cool looking...all guys are like that...
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Old 2006-06-08, 21:53   Link #883
Prism
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz
red/black one = Enuma Eilish
spiral one = Caladbolg
I though the red/black one is called Ea(well, atleast thats what gil named it), but he calls out "Enuma Elish" to get the maximum output of the weapon's power.
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Old 2006-06-08, 21:55   Link #884
Village Idiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prism
I though the red/black one is called Ea, but he calls out "Enuma Elish" to get the maximum output of the weapon's power.
Other way around.

Enuma Elish normally, and saying Ea for full power.

Then throw in magical amulets/talismans/relics/artifacts to boost the damage of Ea even further.

Edit: My bad, its the other way around, Ea normally, Enuma Elish for full power.
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Last edited by Village Idiot; 2006-06-08 at 22:52.
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Old 2006-06-08, 22:14   Link #885
LCeh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot
Other way around.

Enuma Elish normally, and saying Ea for full power.

Then throw in magical amulets/talismans/relics/artifacts to boost the damage of Ea even further.
But against Saber in ep 21, he said Enuma Elish instead of Ea.
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Old 2006-06-08, 22:23   Link #886
Archer
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That's because he wasn't aiming to kill Saber.

Enuma Elish the weapon that could split the world.... literally.
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Old 2006-06-08, 22:24   Link #887
Village Idiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCeh
But against Saber in ep 21, he said Enuma Elish instead of Ea.
In Ep21, Gil used Enuma Elish at a greatly, greatly reduced power.

At full power, Enuma Elish is several hundred times more powerful than the Excalibur Beam.

It's classified as Anti-World for a reason.
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Old 2006-06-08, 22:37   Link #888
Prism
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oh, lol i was reading the information from fuyuki...i guess then had it mixed up.
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Old 2006-06-08, 22:53   Link #889
Village Idiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prism
oh, lol i was reading the information from fuyuki...i guess then had it mixed up.
No I had it mixed up.

Ea normally, Enuma Elish for full power.

Sorry for the mix up.
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Old 2006-06-08, 23:02   Link #890
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I wonder...if Ea can split the world, why didn't the world end in the previous holy grail war? I remember Kieri wants everyone to die anyways...so why not say 'hey gil use Ea and split Earth in half!'?
There. You don't really need the holy grail for your wish Kieri.
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Old 2006-06-08, 23:24   Link #891
Village Idiot
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Kirei: Hey Gil, use Ea and split this world will you?

Gil: No.

Kirei: Why not?

Gil: Because I don't feel like it.

Kirei: By the power of the Command Seal, I order you to destroy the Earth!

Gil: Quit trying to order the King around, you mongrel-ACK! Someone's selling my Durandal in the flea market for 100 yen! *buys*
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Old 2006-06-08, 23:36   Link #892
MakubeX2
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With Gil's attitude, there's no doubt that he thinks the world's his property and playground.

So until he got tired of it or sense that he will lose it.....
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Old 2006-06-09, 00:04   Link #893
roan
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...because kotomine's real wish isn't to destroy the world. it's a result, not a goal.
read the last battle in heaven's feel.
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Old 2006-06-09, 01:10   Link #894
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you guys are confusing me lol.

Ea is for reduced power and Enuma Elish is for maximum power is what I picked up from this.

That's fine, but what im not getting is that you said he wasn't trying to kill saber in 21 which makes sense, but he used Enuma Elish there instead of Ea... isn't Enuma Elish the super powerful version?

*brain fries*
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Old 2006-06-09, 04:50   Link #895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot
Kirei: Hey Gil, use Ea and split this world will you?

Gil: No.

Kirei: Why not?

Gil: Because I don't feel like it.

Kirei: By the power of the Command Seal, I order you to destroy the Earth!

Gil: Quit trying to order the King around, you mongrel-ACK! Someone's selling my Durandal in the flea market for 100 yen! *buys*
lol good one.
Kirei probably had a good life in the last holy grail war...

Kirei: Hey Gil lend me your weapons

Gil: Sure. *Gate of Babylon* *smack* Take them all you punk.

---meanwhile, in the flea market---

Kirei: Big sale! Durandal and Garm and other legendary weapons for sale! 100,000,000yen each!

---later on---

Gil: Ha! As if you really think these weapons are yours. *Gate of Babylon Reverse*

---the next day---

Kirei: Hey Gil, lend me...

Gil: No.
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Old 2006-06-09, 07:29   Link #896
Hemisphere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
you guys are confusing me lol.

Ea is for reduced power and Enuma Elish is for maximum power is what I picked up from this.

That's fine, but what im not getting is that you said he wasn't trying to kill saber in 21 which makes sense, but he used Enuma Elish there instead of Ea... isn't Enuma Elish the super powerful version?

*brain fries*
It could be that the producers of the animation were just trying to dramatize things up, with the Excalibur - Enuma Elish face off or something.

Or, that Gilgamesh had to say Enuma Elish in order to use Ea due to the "technicalities" of how to use Noble Phantasms (the whole saying the name bit), but held the power back drastically.

Regarding the use of the word Phantasm:

Phantasm - a perception of something that has no physical reality.

Putting that definition in mind, 'Noble Phantasms' as a translation of Hougu, really does fit the context.
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Old 2006-06-09, 08:33   Link #897
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But they *did* exist in the past. It's just that they're powered up when they become a servant...
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Old 2006-06-09, 08:54   Link #898
Reppa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2
With Gil's attitude, there's no doubt that he thinks the world's his property and playground.

So until he got tired of it or sense that he will lose it.....
Well Gil's king of the world attitude comes frome being king of the world. What I would like to know is when your 2/3 god and 1/3 King who is honestly going to tell you no?
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Old 2006-06-09, 09:07   Link #899
gammaoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reppa
Well Gil's king of the world attitude comes frome being king of the world. What I would like to know is when your 2/3 god and 1/3 King who is honestly going to tell you no?
The gods themselves. Or let us say they delayed their gift and waited for Gil to die a normal death.
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Old 2006-06-09, 09:21   Link #900
Hemisphere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon
But they *did* exist in the past. It's just that they're powered up when they become a servant...
In the sense of the skills/weapon/armor themselves, they existed, of course.

But the way the legends "improved" the Noble Phantasms to the way that they are used now, it transcends physical reality. So Phantasm fits it accurately.

Again: Phantasm - a perception of something that has no physical reality.

By saying that Noble Phantasms are Phantasms, it doesn't mean denying their existence - but rather, by improving on their purpose, they become phantasmic concepts.

As an example: Can you honestly say that Excalibur using a beam of light from focused wind energy isn't phantasmal at all? It has no physical reality, or foundation, to speak of - the belief on how Excalibur works as a Hougu - but due to people's hopes and dreams, it has become that way.

Noble Phantasms are not simply about being relics from the past used by Heroic Spirits, but rather, representations of how people believed in them, and being the crystallized essence of those beliefs, even if that belief has no physical foundation to support it.
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