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Old 2006-06-09, 09:28   Link #901
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erhjegel
As an example: Can you honestly say that Excalibur using a beam of light from focused wind energy isn't phantasmal at all? It has no physical reality, or foundation, to speak of - the belief on how Excalibur works as a Hougu - but due to people's hopes and dreams, it has become that way..
No...

I guess you're right after all...in the original creation Nasu did hint the difference between a Noble Phantasm and an artifact...
Still...before watching F/SN I would never believe any legendary weapon to act like a beam cannon...what's your imagination for an Excalibur before watching F/SN?
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Old 2006-06-09, 09:35   Link #902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon
No...

I guess you're right after all...in the original creation Nasu did hint the difference between a Noble Phantasm and an artifact...
Still...before watching F/SN I would never believe any legendary weapon to act like a beam cannon...what's your imagination for an Excalibur before watching F/SN?
Well, I din't pay much attention to the legend of King Arthur, so I wouldn't know. But I did think of it as something of the sword of victory, with a blade that could cut through anything. So it being a beam cannon isn't that far-fetched.

Personally, if I had to have a Servant...I'd at least get Nanoha or Fate.

We can also say that the phantasmic influence not only depends on the beliefs that people have on the artifact of the hero that existed (to put it simply, but remember that Noble Phantasms aren't restricted to artifacts alone), but maybe the beliefs evolve and finalizes itself depending on how the people believe in it.

For example, the people believe in Excalibur as the sword of victory, and it wasaid to represent people's hopes and dreams - so, of its own accord (or maybe from the influenece of a divine being - possibly the grail?), the artifact that is known as Excalibur, King Arthur's sword of promised victory, becomes the Noble Phantasm Excalibur, with the power to cut through the darkness by...

...well, incinerating anything in its path...
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Old 2006-06-09, 09:49   Link #903
Reppa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gammaoh
The gods themselves. Or let us say they delayed their gift and waited for Gil to die a normal death.
Back then the gods wern't too keen on the idea that Gil could beat them down.
However alow me rephrase. Your 2/3 got 1/3 king. What human in there right mind is going to tell you no? Who is going to stop you, when you beat what the gods throw at you? Gil is an arrogant jerk the problem is that he can back all his arrogance up with no problem.
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Old 2006-06-09, 10:42   Link #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reppa
Back then the gods wern't too keen on the idea that Gil could beat them down.
However alow me rephrase. Your 2/3 got 1/3 king. What human in there right mind is going to tell you no? Who is going to stop you, when you beat what the gods throw at you? Gil is an arrogant jerk the problem is that he can back all his arrogance up with no problem.
So true. Actually, he's among the very rare heroes that directly defied the gods and won over them.
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Old 2006-06-09, 14:41   Link #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gammaoh
So true. Actually, he's among the very rare heroes that directly defied the gods and won over them.
Kind of makes it hard not to hate his guts.
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Old 2006-06-09, 15:06   Link #906
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It just makes me like him more
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Old 2006-06-09, 15:37   Link #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomX
It just makes me like him more
Regular Book Gil = Inspiraing and likable

Fate/ Stay Night Gil = Prime Evil to the 5th power. Hated almost as bad as Cyclops for the X-men.
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Old 2006-06-09, 16:17   Link #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reppa
Regular Book Gil = Inspiraing and likable

Fate/ Stay Night Gil = Prime Evil to the 5th power. Hated almost as bad as Cyclops for the X-men.
Well, I love Gilgamesh whether in the Epic or in the anime.

It's just that some of his traits are really exaggerated in the anime. He's just the pre-Enkidu Gilgamesh in the anime.

However, I'd like to remind everyone of his good nature. Even though he sounds like (and is somehow) a jerk, he remains a good person.
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Old 2006-06-09, 16:21   Link #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gammaoh
Well, I love Gilgamesh whether in the Epic or in the anime.

It's just that some of his traits are really exaggerated in the anime. He's just the pre-Enkidu Gilgamesh in the anime.

However, I'd like to remind everyone of his good nature. Even though he sounds like (and is somehow) a jerk, he remains a good person.
i can believe that gil has a nice side to him...its like when some evil villian seem evil at first but have a good side to them due to their hidden agenda

i believe that gil is still a kid...he gets wht he wants...
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Old 2006-06-09, 16:26   Link #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz
i can believe that gil has a nice side to him...its like when some evil villian seem evil at first but have a good side to them due to their hidden agenda

i believe that gil is still a kid...he gets wht he wants...

Hannibal Lector had a good side. Yet no one says anything about it.
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Old 2006-06-09, 16:35   Link #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reppa
Hannibal Lector had a good side. Yet no one says anything about it.
sure he did he wanted to clear the world of hobos but couldnt find any at the time...but he still needed something to replace his hunger...
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Old 2006-06-09, 16:47   Link #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz
sure he did he wanted to clear the world of hobos but couldnt find any at the time...but he still needed something to replace his hunger...
Just like berserker, Except with better culinary arts skills.
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Old 2006-06-12, 06:35   Link #913
aldeayeah
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Question: Why did the Einzberns trust Kiritsugu so much? And why didn't they go after him after his betrayal?
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Old 2006-06-12, 07:00   Link #914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldeayeah
Question: Why did the Einzberns trust Kiritsugu so much? And why didn't they go after him after his betrayal?
He was a great magus killer, even though his ability as a Master is only normal.

And they did go after him. That was why Ilya was so adamant about killing Shirou.

Here's something so hilarious I can't stop from laughing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuyuki wiki
油断王

A Servant with the titles of King of Vanity, King of Blundering, Gold Pika, ORESAMA/WARESAMA.
Gilgamesh, without mistake, the strongest of the Servants. If he only wasn't so damned careless and cocky.
Special skill is the "word of the King" - the ability to use a 1st person pronoun that is written as "ware" and said as "ore". Basically the "I'm the king of the world, foolish mongrels" kind of pronoun.
If Tohsaka makes stupid mistakes, this guy screws up just because of his vanity.
An asshole but everybody still loves him, just like they love Raymond.
Also popular among the kiddies and has golden fishing rods. Currently a gag character.
How true is this? XD
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Old 2006-06-12, 16:08   Link #915
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Quite true actually... And I want to see the golden fishing rods!

But it's true Gilgamesh would be invincible if he wasn't so cocky and careless.
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Old 2006-06-12, 16:27   Link #916
aldeayeah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erhjegel
He was a great magus killer, even though his ability as a Master is only normal.

And they did go after him. That was why Ilya was so adamant about killing Shirou.
I guess Ilya felt personally betrayed. Or more like abandoned. Although I can't understand Ilya's feelings too well. She doesn't look like she wants to kill Shirou. Also, when she talks about her father, there is no hate in his words, only sorrow.

Anyway, being a great magus killer alone doesn't explain all the trust they put in him (fathering Illya, representing the family in the Grail War, giving him Avalon - which is such an invaluable artifact that I don't think the Einzberns would give him to anybody without a very good reason). Do you know anything else about Kiritsugu's backstory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gammaoh
Quite true actually... And I want to see the golden fishing rods!
I've seen the CG, but the scene itself looks so hilarious, I'd love to play it!

Spoiler for Lancer, Archer and Gil fishing:
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Old 2006-06-12, 16:53   Link #917
charlog
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Hmm do you mean that Ilya's father gave avalon to Kiritsugu ? Hmm Did shirou's father was the one who killed Rin's father and Ilya's father, I'm a bit confused about that given that we almost know nothing about him ...
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Old 2006-06-12, 16:54   Link #918
fict_ticious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erhjegel
How true is this? XD
Errm... *looks at own avatar*>_>
Very accurate indeed.
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Old 2006-06-12, 17:08   Link #919
iamandragon
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Haha look at all the shiny fishing rods Gil uses.
Why doesn't Archer trace a couple extra fishing rods?

Question!
You know how everyone knows or believes Archer=future Shirou?
What if...
Archer is a heroic spirit from another planet, who also happens to know tracing and looks like Shirou, is summoned by Rin due to inproper manners of summoning, has his memories meddled to make himself believe him to be Shirou, and teaches Shirou UBW in UBW believing they're the same person?

haha if anyone believe in this, they're nuts...
(Can't I find anyone in this forum as nuts as me?)
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Old 2006-06-12, 17:44   Link #920
charlog
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If I remember well, when I played the english trial version, we learn that maybe the reason why Rin failed her summon what because she summoned her servant one hour before ( 1 am instead of 2.. ). And til the end Rin'll think that it was the reason of her failure and why she didn't summon Saber, but would it be a good reason ? Or do you think that the jewel was the real reason of summoning Archer ?
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