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Old 2007-07-12, 22:34   Link #1321
kureshii
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Originally Posted by Archer View Post
I doubt that Saber needs Caliburn to defeat Lancer, since she could fight him on an equal scale even when she was powered down. (Although that's probably because Lancer was forced to hold back and fight everyone to a tie)
Mmm, I meant it as a thought experiment actually (with regards to their special effects), but thanks for the battle analysis.

What about alternate uses? From Gate of Babylon it's probably useless except as a projectile, but considering how it keeps its effect even when imaged by Shirou, could he theoretically image it in UBW for IMBA insta-Berserker kill? Thought experiment again, ignoring his chances of striking berserker, assume he does. What if he uses it as a broken Phantasm (i.e. fired as arrow)? Theoretically, Homing Missile of Death(TM)? Again, ignoring chances of hitting or sp.def (i.e. Avalon), assume it does hit... or does some rule say that the promised victory effect is cancelled?
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Old 2007-07-12, 23:43   Link #1322
Archer
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Shirou/Archer/Gilgamesh aren't the proper wielders of Caliburn, Saber is.
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Old 2007-07-13, 01:50   Link #1323
kureshii
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Ah, I see. So promised victory is an Arturius-exclusive special effect? Saber sure enjoys her perks... makes me wonder what kind of special effects Archer can get from the swords he can trace.

I still find Berserker's death pretty dissatisfying. Killed by a non-NP attack, wasn't even stabbed through his vital points (as a Servant), and with 7 lives remaining... no wonder Ilya couldn't believe her eyes.

Oh, just another question: was Eirei Emiya ever summoned in 3HGW or 4HGW? If so, by who and was it as Archer class too? (Doubt it) If not, why does he say "looks like I got summoned by an excellent Master again"?
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Old 2007-07-13, 03:03   Link #1324
Archer
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Unlimited Blade Works is a Reality Marble, which is quite a feat in itself. However, there is nothing different (in terms of special abilities) between his copies and the originals.

Emiya is only proficient as an Archer. He doesn't have the proper stats for a Saber, he doesn't use a lance, he's a horrible magus, doesn't ride any kind of transportation, and he's not a Hassan. And although it was never actually specified, but it's safe to assume that he never went berserk either.

Thus, Archer. Emiya is an excellent marksman, and was the best of the school Archery club before he left.

Was he in the 4th Heaven's Feel? No. Gilgamesh was the 4th's Archer.

The 3rd or before? Never officially stated.
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Old 2007-07-13, 05:25   Link #1325
iamandragon
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It really depends which Saber it is...If she is powered down I'm sure Lancer have a better chance. Gae Bolg costs so little mana that he can use it 7 times in a row, which, even if Saber managed to dodge them all, will suffer serious injuries to fight on.

And for Saber with Caliburn...Saber looses, since Caliburn needs to be in Shirou's hands to maintain shape and in Saber's hands to activate. And I'm sure all Lancer has to do is 'woops! Sorry kid, for killing you twice!'

Anyways, Saber with Avalon = sure win, if not instant win. That is, if you count on the fact that Shirou is not right next to Saber doing nothing and screaming 'Saaaaba!'

Let's not discuss Caliburn anymore...it's just a cheat...
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Old 2007-07-13, 23:24   Link #1326
kanamechidori
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Hmmm?

what does hassan mean?
I'm an FSN newbie.. And I can't keep up with the termiologies some of you use..
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Old 2007-07-13, 23:35   Link #1327
kureshii
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Oh yeah, forgot Shirou's class is Archer. I guess that would explain why he doesn't make extensive use of special swords other than K&B.

As for Hassan, I think that's the given name to the leader of a group of assassins in the Middle East. Won't say more since that's about as much as I know. Sorry about some of the acronyms I use, I just find it too troublesome to type 3rd Holy Grail War instead of 3HGW ;-) If you need clarification on any of the terms/acronyms, feel free to ask or use forum search =)
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Old 2007-07-14, 00:47   Link #1328
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Heaven's Feel = The official name of the Holy Grail War, and also the last scenario of F/SN. Abbreviated usually to HF.

Hassan Sabbah - The legend where the term "assassin" originated from. Is actually a title and not a single person, so each HF's Assassin is a completely different person with completely different abilities, even though they all share the same name.

Sasaki Koujirou is a "fake" Assassin during the fifth HF, as he is not a Hassan Sabbah. Since he was summoned by another Servant, he is not considered to be as "complete" as the other Servants, as shown by True Assassin (in the fifth HF)'s summoning.
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Old 2007-07-14, 01:07   Link #1329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanamechidori View Post
what does hassan mean?
I'm an FSN newbie.. And I can't keep up with the termiologies some of you use..
Hasan means "handsome and good".

Though Hasan the character doesn't look so...

Since when did Shirou became Saber? Now...
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Old 2007-07-14, 05:26   Link #1330
kureshii
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Heh, would be interesting nee... Someone should do up some fanart/fan speculation of the Servants in other classes. Those who are eligible, that is. Like, say, Heracles as Archer, Shirou as Saber (even if his specs are not up to par), maybe even Medusa as Caster (I know her man's not up to standard...)? And Sasaki as Saber... yeah that would be worth seeing. Together with Gil-san, too.
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Old 2007-07-14, 08:36   Link #1331
mlai
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They wouldn't "look" any different than they are now. They're materializations of the soul. It's not as if they'll come out with DIFFERNT ARMOR LOLZ if they are summoned as a different class.

Hassan is a real historical personage. Together with (ironically) Sasake Kojiro, he's 1 of the heroes who actually existed in history. Below is wiki link:

Hassan-i Sabbah (Persian: حسن صباح) (circa 1034 - 1124) was an Iranian Ismā'īlī Nizarī missionary who converted a community in the late 11th century in the heart of the Alborz Mountains of northern Iran. The place was called Alamut and was attributed to an ancient king of Daylam. He founded a group whose members are sometimes (originally derogatorily) referred to as the Hashshashin.

Not to be confused with The Old Man of the Mountain, though he was also an Assassin leader of the same place (wiki link):

The Old Man of the Mountain was a name given to Rashid ad-Din Sinan, one of the leaders of the Syrian wing of the Hashshashin sect and an important figure in the history of the Crusades.
Latin sources from the crusader states call him Vetulus de Montanis, derived from the Arabic title Shaykh al Jabal, which means prince or elder of the mountain.
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Old 2007-07-14, 11:20   Link #1332
kureshii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlai View Post
They wouldn't "look" any different than they are now. They're materializations of the soul. It's not as if they'll come out with DIFFERENT ARMOR LOLZ if they are summoned as a different class.
Yeah, I guess that's true. I guess what I meant is differently styled costumes then.
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Old 2007-07-14, 11:56   Link #1333
sjk12
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Ok, I have a question. What's a Reality Marble?
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Old 2007-07-14, 14:27   Link #1334
Archer
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Ok, I have a question. What's a Reality Marble?
Essentially, it's a magic that overrides the universal reality with the user's own "reality". This "reality" has its own set of rules and boundaries that don't necessary follow the rules of nature. It is one of the most difficult magics to obtain; many magi have tried for years and failed.
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Old 2007-07-14, 22:15   Link #1335
kureshii
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Ok, I have a question. What's a Reality Marble?
If you want that in simpler words, it's like creating your own little world in this big world, that little world has its own sets of laws, and is called your Reality Marble (RM). Of course, there are restrictions; you don't get to choose the laws that govern your RM, as it is a reflection of your soul. Something innate to your nature decides those laws.
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Old 2007-07-15, 01:59   Link #1336
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And to add: creating a reality marble does not consume much mana, it is the maintaining of it that eats up your mana--as when projected, would corrode the world which would also create a counter force to fix it back to its original state.

Note: Reality Marble is extremely hard to obtain for humans.
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Old 2007-07-15, 11:24   Link #1337
X_Danny_X
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kureshii View Post
If you want that in simpler words, it's like creating your own little world in this big world, that little world has its own sets of laws, and is called your Reality Marble (RM). Of course, there are restrictions; you don't get to choose the laws that govern your RM, as it is a reflection of your soul. Something innate to your nature decides those laws.
and in Shirou's case it is swords, that is why his UBW marble shows swords and his body is made up from swords.

that is why in his battle with Gilgamesh you see swords being healed after using Avalon to reflect Ea in the Fate Route with the help of Saber.
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Old 2007-07-15, 15:16   Link #1338
iamandragon
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I have to repeat, even though many websites/character materials/interviews have mentioned: Avalon does not reflect attacks! The following is what Avalon does precisely, no more, no less:
grants immortality

This is done by the following effects it carries:
1) Shuts the bearer from any physical damage (as demonstrated in the final fight of the original game)
2) Heals any wounds on the bearer (as demonstrated in the first Berserker fight)
3) Stops bearer from aging (as demonstrated on Saber's face...)

And it needs to be in contact with Saber to activate. I repeat: Avalon does not reflect anything, no matter how shiny it is!

As for Shirou's reality marble, the Unlimited Blade Works, it's a world where:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuyuki
the substances needed to form all swords are present. Just by looking at the original, it is possible to replicate it. However, the replicated weapon is lowered by one rank. Defensive armaments are possible but the normal projection cost is two to three times the regular amount of Prana used in making swords. A weapon replicated once is recorded in the barrier and can be made without activating the Reality Marble using tracing thaumaturgy.
It does not come with swords, but it comes with a sword storage capability. Don't let what you see confuse you.

I remember seeing a picture where Shirou have swords poking out of his body. I think it's a CG from the HF scenario. Does anyone have it?
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Old 2007-07-15, 16:32   Link #1339
Archer
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Spoiler for Heaven's Feel Spoilers:
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Old 2007-07-18, 04:35   Link #1340
zero7090
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can someone tell me how come Ilya die after the war 1 year ?
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