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Old 2008-04-08, 21:49   Link #1721
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Assuming that Archer knew about Nine Lives Blade Works:

Nine Lives is not a weapon that could be used so casually. Wielding that large slab of rock is difficult in itself, but Archer's wounded body wouldn't be able to handle the strain of using that technique without having some serious consequences that could, at worst, kill him. Actually, he would still have problems even if he was at prime condition. Since Berserker was at his full strength (unlike Black Berserker, whose stats suffered under Sakura's control), using NLBW would actually give him the advantage, as Archer would be too heavily injured to put up a good fight. Therefore, it would probably be a last resort of sorts (although, considering how Archer was confident that he would win even before the battle began, it was a resort that Archer never really intended to use anyway).

Remember, Archer wasn't fighting that battle to destroy Berserker or to make them use up precious time. He was fighting to win (which was something different from just simply defeating Berserker), and to win he had adopt a strategy that would give him the greatest chance of success with the least amount of risk. While this is all speculation, this is something that Archer, a man who emphasizes efficiency over anything else, would probably come up with.
Many thanks for the explanation. That made soooooo much more sense when I try to spit things out from my memory...
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Old 2008-04-09, 05:45   Link #1722
Blade_Lord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Caster could block Archer's attacks with her shield, but not when she's got her attention on something else(referring to the underground scene in UBW). Archer attacked Caster when she was distracted by Saber, heavily injured by Rin, and further more, when she thought Archer is her ally and took her guard against him. That's how he got her.
However, in the Fate route, she have demonstrated that she is capable of blocking some of Gilgamesh's weaker attacks, and knowing the fact that Archer's attacks are all weaker form of Gilgamesh's, she can block them if Archer is to fight Caster 1 on 1. Unfortunately is neither will allow the situation.


I'm not sure about it, but I remember Archer once mentioned in Fate/HA that he wears his red coat when he think he is fighting for justice--so I believe the chance of Archer actually holding back in the 5th HG war is slim.


Lancer is partially immune to projectile weapons--if he can't see them then he can't block them--hrunting is a weapon that takes long to charge up and is to be used for long distance/sneak attack. So yes you are right, Lancer cannot block it--though in regular battles none of Archers weapons are capable of defeating Lancer when both hold nothing back.

As for Caster, Archer is capable of beating her with some strategy when her attention is distracted by Rider and Shirou(as demonstrated by the UBW route).

I was not considering sniping/sneak attacks when I wrote out the assumption, but I can't see a reason why Archer won't use such tactics if he really want to win...


Nine Lives was only aquired when Shirou actually abandons his own ambition to be the hero of justice and decided to be the hero of Sakura alone--Im not sure how, but I guess he acquired Nine Lives via the link of him and Berserker through Sakura. Archer on the another hand have never seen Nine Lives...allow me to read HF again to comfirm...
If archer attack is a weaker attack of gilgamesh why does UBW swords can still cancel them out? Shouldnt they breaks through the swords and kill shirou??

Is gilgamesh GOB NP unlimited??

Talking bout Gilgamesh(UBW) his outfit does he only wear those kind of outfit when he fought shirou? Why didnt he use his golden armour??
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Old 2008-04-09, 13:42   Link #1723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
If archer attack is a weaker attack of gilgamesh why does UBW swords can still cancel them out? Shouldnt they breaks through the swords and kill shirou??
Quite a few reasons:
#Plot protection
#Gilgamesh held back

Pick one or all.

You don't need an attack as strong as your opponent to cancel them out, the defender always require less strength to defend against an attack--but that's just my experience as a martial artist.

Quote:
Is gilgamesh GOB NP unlimited??
Of course not--he only have the original of each Noble Phantasm, meaning there is only a maximum 'N' Noble Phantasms in Gate of Babylon, where 'N' stands for the total amount of Noble Phantasms that existed

Quote:
Talking bout Gilgamesh(UBW) his outfit does he only wear those kind of outfit when he fought shirou? Why didn't he use his golden armor??
#Gilgamesh do not think Shirou deserve to fight him at full armor/power
#Gilgamesh thought Shirou's attacks are too weak to even reach him
#Gilgamesh thought attacks from his Gate of Babylon is more than enough to kill him many times over and over again
#Gilgamesh thought Shirou don't know magic(which is true)
#Gilgamesh could not put it on in time
#Gilgamesh ran out of hair gel

Pick one or all

There's too many reasons for Gilgamesh to not wear his armor...
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Old 2008-04-10, 08:40   Link #1724
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any update on the Heaven's Feel route? ^^-
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Old 2008-04-10, 12:28   Link #1725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcueidian View Post
any update on the Heaven's Feel route? ^^-
It's the third route of Fate/Stay Night.

What specific information are you asking about?
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Old 2008-04-10, 16:24   Link #1726
Fuuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Quite a few reasons:
#Plot protection
#Gilgamesh held back

Pick one or all.
I think the swords in UBW are stronger then the swords when Shirou "project" them becouse he doesnt have to "image" them, so they dont have much flaw's, so they are closer to the original sword and the user can make the diffrents.
And Shirou absorbed Archer's skills while fighting him so he became beter at "project" and fighting with swords then he was in Fate route.
And Gilgamesh is a "owner" of the swords and not a "wielder" so he was never able to use the swords with full power. Yea, Gilgamesh held back becouse he thought that Shirou wasnt worthy enough to fight him with full power.
In UBW Shirou's swords were there on the ground ready to be used that it self gave Shirou advantage. When Shirou saw what sword Gilgamesh went to use then Shirou took that sword and swingd it with all his might and Gilgamesh wasnt able to handel his attack and had to swing so hard that his sword got destroyd together with Shirou's sword.

This is based on UBW route, Im still waiting for Heaven's Feel translation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
It's the third route of Fate/Stay Night.

What specific information are you asking about?
I think he/she asks how far the translation is?
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Old 2008-04-10, 20:35   Link #1727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
I think the swords in UBW are stronger then the swords when Shirou "project" them becouse he doesnt have to "image" them, so they dont have much flaw's, so they are closer to the original sword and the user can make the diffrents.
There's no solid proof for that, but good point you have made. I think you've got this idea from the Caliburn scene?

Quote:
And Shirou absorbed Archer's skills while fighting him so he became better at "project" and fighting with swords then he was in Fate route.

Quote:
And Gilgamesh is a "owner" of the swords and not a "wielder" so he was never able to use the swords with full power. Yea, Gilgamesh held back because he thought that Shirou wasn't worthy enough to fight him with full power.
In UBW Shirou's swords were there on the ground ready to be used that it self gave Shirou advantage. When Shirou saw what sword Gilgamesh went to use then Shirou took that sword and swingd it with all his might and Gilgamesh wasnt able to handel his attack and had to swing so hard that his sword got destroyd together with Shirou's sword.

This is based on UBW route, Im still waiting for Heaven's Feel translation.
Remember, at that time Shirou was in a 'hot blood' state that he is only describing things from his impression--we will need to use our imagination here to feel what happened during the fight...I think when Shirou say 'swing' he's actually shooting them out, as all his limbs were in a bad shape from his fight with Archer the day before. Without the contract with Saber Avalon won't heal his body, so there is no way that he can swing Noble Phantasms so many times...

Quote:
I think he/she asks how far the translation is?
I'm guessing so, but I just don't want to make assumption...
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Old 2008-04-10, 21:29   Link #1728
arcueidian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
I think he/she asks how far the translation is?


exactly ^^-


...female here btw |3
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Old 2008-04-11, 00:18   Link #1729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcueidian View Post
exactly ^^-


...female here btw |3
Last time I checked, the translation was a little past the first actual Sakura h-scene. However, it's been put on hold at the moment.
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Old 2008-04-11, 00:40   Link #1730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
There's no solid proof for that, but good point you have made. I think you've got this idea from the Caliburn scene?
Yea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Remember, at that time Shirou was in a 'hot blood' state that he is only describing things from his impression--we will need to use our imagination here to feel what happened during the fight...I think when Shirou say 'swing' he's actually shooting them out, as all his limbs were in a bad shape from his fight with Archer the day before. Without the contract with Saber Avalon won't heal his body, so there is no way that he can swing Noble Phantasms so many times...
I think they starten with shooting swords at each other then fighting like swordman.
Archer did say this while fight Shirou.
"Her sheath...! Its protection is still there, even though the contract does not exist anymore...!"
So, avalon might have heald his body little before the magical energy rund out. Or it still might had effect while fighting Gilgamesh.

Why is Reality Marble a forbidden magic? If the awnser is going to be given in Heaven's Feel just say "Its going to be awnser in Heaven's Feel"

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcueidian View Post
exactly ^^-


...female here btw |3
Heaven's Feel english translation is on hold.....

Last edited by Fuuma; 2008-04-11 at 00:53.
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Old 2008-04-11, 08:21   Link #1731
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcueidian View Post
exactly ^^-


...female here btw |3
Heeey. Nice to see another girl in this sub-forum. None of my friends enjoyed Fate/Stay Night(or any Type Moon works) so it sometimes feels quite weird...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Last time I checked, the translation was a little past the first actual Sakura h-scene. However, it's been put on hold at the moment.
Mainly because of the leak--have the people only waited for 3 more days they would have a fully functional installer and without loosing the translation. I'm currently recruiting translators for HF(Chinese>English though).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
I think they starten with shooting swords at each other then fighting like swordman.
Archer did say this while fight Shirou.
"Her sheath...! Its protection is still there, even though the contract does not exist anymore...!"
So, avalon might have heald his body little before the magical energy rund out. Or it still might had effect while fighting Gilgamesh.
Oh great, seems I missed that part. But still, without the actual connection Avalon does not heal as good as it was, but seeing that he has the strength to resist being [=spoiler=] with Gilgamesh after the battle, I suppose he's restored a great deal of his body.

Quote:
Why is Reality Marble a forbidden magic? If the awnser is going to be given in Heaven's Feel just say "Its going to be awnser in Heaven's Feel"
I think it's just a translation problem--in Japanese it's '禁咒'(Kin Chou)--and when you translate each word separately it's 'forbidden' and 'incantation '. However when used in fantasy novels it actually means unable to surpass. Reality Marble is a level of magic where magicians have to pass a barrier that's impassable to acquire it.
It's quite hard to actually find a good translation to it, while explaining it in detail will quite a lot of take time and effort. As people who read Type Moon works generally have an interest in occult and magic, they should be familiar with these terms to understand what they mean over time like common knowledge. There're many cases where terms are understood without explanation, all you need to do is read a lot.
[/QUOTE]

Last edited by iamandragon; 2008-04-11 at 08:32.
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Old 2008-04-11, 09:27   Link #1732
Fuuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
I think it's just a translation problem--in Japanese it's '禁咒'(Kin Chou)--and when you translate each word separately it's 'forbidden' and 'incantation '. However when used in fantasy novels it actually means unable to surpass. Reality Marble is a level of magic where magicians have to pass a barrier that's impassable to acquire it.
It's quite hard to actually find a good translation to it, while explaining it in detail will quite a lot of take time and effort. As people who read Type Moon works generally have an interest in occult and magic, they should be familiar with these terms to understand what they mean over time like common knowledge. There're many cases where terms are understood without explanation, all you need to do is read a lot.
I see. So Reality Marble is the hardest magic to acquire? and is not forbidden.


Who does Shirou mean with 'Waiting for one's arrival."
Does he mean Archer? since Archer came from the "Seat of the Heroic Spirits"
But then again Shirou shoudnt know that Archer was coming

Last edited by Fuuma; 2008-04-11 at 09:51.
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Old 2008-04-11, 10:08   Link #1733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
Who does Shirou mean with 'Waiting for one's arrival."[]
Does he mean Archer? since Archer came from the "Seat of the Heroic Spirits"
No idea...despite how great novel write Nasu is, his Engrish is nowhere near standard...

Quote:
But then again Shirou shoudnt know that Archer was coming
He does already.
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Old 2008-04-11, 12:18   Link #1734
Fuuma
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Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
He does already.
What doe you mean by that?
You mean like that Shirou wil end up becoming Archer? or something els?
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Old 2008-04-11, 21:18   Link #1735
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Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
What doe you mean by that?
You mean like that Shirou wil end up becoming Archer? or something els?
He knew about Archer's identity in the UBW route, and swore to not walk the same believe of him.
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Old 2008-04-12, 07:11   Link #1736
arcueidian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Last time I checked, the translation was a little past the first actual Sakura h-scene. However, it's been put on hold at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
Heaven's Feel english translation is on hold.....
aaiiihhhhsee.. i see.. thaaaanks~! ^^-

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Heeey. Nice to see another girl in this sub-forum. None of my friends enjoyed Fate/Stay Night(or any Type Moon works) so it sometimes feels quite weird...
eheheh! well I really loved Type-Moon's Shingetsutan Tsukihime so I did look forward to playing all of their games and watch/read whatever they will release mweheheheh ^^-
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Old 2008-04-12, 07:31   Link #1737
Blade_Lord
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Whats the different between Projection and Image??

How come Shirou UBW is full of swords?? He didnt trace that many sword before the day he fought gilgamesh did he??

Is it true archer's red clothes is holy burial clothes??

Is the bow which archer uses to shoot his hundgren an NP too??

The name unlimited blade work means shirou got unlimited sword, no??
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Old 2008-04-12, 08:32   Link #1738
Fuuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Whats the different between Projection and Image??
"Image" is like making a blueprint in his mind of a sword and "Projection" is making the sword out of that blueprint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
How come Shirou UBW is full of swords?? He didnt trace that many sword before the day he fought gilgamesh did he??
UBW is like a steel manufacturing factory, every sword apears in UBW that Shirou saw.
Only swords that are missing in UBW are Excalibur and EA.

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Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Is it true archer's red clothes is holy burial clothes??
Dont know

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Is the bow which archer uses to shoot his hundgren an NP too??
I think its just a normal bow.

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Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
The name unlimited blade work means shirou got unlimited sword, no??
Yes
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Old 2008-04-12, 09:01   Link #1739
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Quote:
I think its just a normal bow.
Yeah a normal bow that could withstand Broken NP. Really credible.

Quote:
UBW is like a steel manufacturing factory, every sword apears in UBW that Shirou saw.
Only swords that are missing in UBW are Excalibur and EA.
The reason why they're missing is because the world does not have the material nowadays right??
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Old 2008-04-12, 09:23   Link #1740
Fuuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Yeah a normal bow that could withstand Broken NP. Really credible.
Well they calld that bow a bow so its a normal bow

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Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
The reason why they're missing is because the world does not have the material nowadays right??
Yes EA isnt there bacouse its not from this world.
But I dont know why Excalibur isnt there, I sayd that based on this line that Archer sayd to Saber when they were in UBW.
"Yes. I do not mind if you would like to test it out.
I shall reproduce that holy sword of yours."
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