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Old 2003-12-15, 13:55   Link #41
Gaara11
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I can't believe that France, Germany, etc. are
suckin' up now to the U.S. on the rebuilding of Iraq after not supporting the U.S.. The US turned them down and they all got pissed...good for them. We went to war so we get the spoils!
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Old 2003-12-15, 18:49   Link #42
wnkryo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaara11
I can't believe that France, Germany, etc. are
suckin' up now to the U.S. on the rebuilding of Iraq after not supporting the U.S.. The US turned them down and they all got pissed...good for them. We went to war so we get the spoils!

Well the reason why france and germany were agianst the war in iraq was becuase they had deviated with iraq in helping them to achieve nuclear weapons (in what ever way) in the past. And if the U.S. had gone to war with iraq, they would of figured this out (which they have), from the documents in iraq.
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Old 2003-12-16, 01:37   Link #43
RedSuitCaliber
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What the hell are you talking about. France and German had good monopoly on the middle east and where trying to protecting there money interests.

Economics man, Economics.
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Old 2003-12-16, 11:20   Link #44
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
Well the reason why france and germany were agianst the war in iraq was becuase they had deviated with iraq in helping them to achieve nuclear weapons (in what ever way) in the past. And if the U.S. had gone to war with iraq, they would of figured this out (which they have), from the documents in iraq.
lol what bullshit.
Seriously when you try to speak about a subject, try to inform you before, and not just by looking Fox New.
Nor France nor Germany never help Iraq to achieve a nuclear weapon program (I means, are you crazy? Did you see the distance between these 2 countries and Iraq?).
But one thing is clear (and it's not a secret by the way) they sold to Saddam many 'regular' weapons, like... Well, like the US, Canada, England, China, ...
In fact almost all the most industrialized countries sold weapons to Iraq (and to Iran, and to...) and the country which sold the most weapons to Iraq was the US (hey always the first in all) with 39%.


Quote:
What the hell are you talking about. France and German had good monopoly on the middle east and where trying to protecting there money interests.

Economics man, Economics.
I think it's indeed a part of the reason and by the way it's the same that for the weapon point, many countries had economic interests in Iraq too, France had interests representing 4 billion $ so much much less than The US for example.

But I don't think it was the only point, because it was obvious from the beginning that after the US army surrounded Iraq, Bush wasn't going to decide to stop the war.

So if they wanted to protect their economic interest, why didn't they just say : Yeah Baby Bush, we're right behind you cowboy!
Because actually, France lost its interest because it was against the war.

But anyway, to return in the subject, the day when Saddam Hussein will be definitively removed, the Earth will be cleaner.

Maybe there is plenty of reasons to have been against this war but one thing is sure this guy is a crazy monster, a psychopathe, a murderer and a tyrant
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Old 2003-12-16, 12:43   Link #45
Lambda
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Should be interesting to see what sort of trial he ends up getting.

Since he hasn't basically changed since the 80's, when he was our friend, (because he was attacking that nasty Iranian popular revolutionary government which overthrew that nice dictator that we gave them to punish the previous popular king for attempting to nationalise his oil industry without consulting his American masters), he gets the opportunity to embarass the American administration about all the big charges.

Gassing his own people? "But I thought that's what you wanted me to do, that's why you vetoed a resolution condemning it in the UN, right?"

Illegal WMDs? "Well, actually I got rid of them, you know, but weren't you selling many of them to me in the first place? So did you want me to have them or not?"

International aggression? "First you sell me weapons to invade Iran, then you attack me when I invade Kuwait. How am I supposed to know what you wanted me to do?"

Yes, now we've got Saddam, there's one less brutal dictator running around. Only a hundred more or so to go. The reason we're all discussing this, really, is because he's the particular brutal dictator that the American administration have decided they don't like. As opposed to all the ones that they either do like, or aren't really bothered about either way.
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Old 2003-12-16, 13:11   Link #46
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Very true Lambda, This is one of the reason why they want that Saddam is judged by Iraqi and not by the US directly.

Last edited by Hunter; 2003-12-16 at 16:43.
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Old 2003-12-16, 14:38   Link #47
Ban-Ban
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Very true Lambda, This is one of the reason why they want that Sassam is judged by Iraqi and not by the US directly.

It wont be a fair trail anyway ,and I suppose it wont affect the elections in he US because they might simply 'adjourn' the trial after the vote and as usual the media of the US (and other countries) twists reality.

And no, the US is NOT a generous savior who helps the poorer nations with food and
large sums of donations!
The USA is only the richest and mightiest country in the world because it EXPLOITs the poorer nations the most.
You let the people in China and other countries work for you and pay them little wages ,just as much so that they can survive (Adidas, Wal Mart,...)
and then make huge profits all over the world.
Yes the US is the cause for the poverty which exists all over the world.

Its not only the US though that uses these methods to make money.
Actually every industrialized country has bloody hands.

Last edited by Ban-Ban; 2003-12-16 at 14:59.
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Old 2003-12-16, 16:27   Link #48
wnkryo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Maybe there is plenty of reasons to have been against this war but one thing is sure this guy is a crazy monster, a psychopathe, a murderer and a tyrant

That is one thing i can defenetly agree upon =]
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Old 2003-12-16, 19:47   Link #49
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It should be a public execution with a big sharp knife and show those iraqi bastards that we will not stand for their insurections against our country and troops.

But that will never happen, and it is just going to be a lethal injection. Damn you politics.
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Old 2003-12-16, 20:27   Link #50
wnkryo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSuitCaliber
It should be a public execution with a big sharp knife and show those iraqi bastards that we will not stand for their insurections against our country and troops.

But that will never happen, and it is just going to be a lethal injection. Damn you politics.

I'm sure you did not mean every iraqi? Becuase thier are alot of innocent people your calling "basterds". But either way I think they will allow the iraqi's to handle saddam for the simple reason is becuase the U.N. is breathing down everyone's neck saying not to exacute him. But if thier own people decided on exacution (which i'm sure they will), then it's more then likely that the U.N. cant do squat more about it.
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Old 2003-12-16, 21:45   Link #51
Mr. Bushido
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u guys argue too much about political crap. No matter wat side ure on, pro-war (americans) or anti-war (European) or neutral (everyone else) Hussein was an asshole, and regardless of other dicatators, we have one in custody. Isnt tat a good thing? Forget the war, and WMD its over. we have hussein and no matter wat side ure on (unless ure a Hussein lovin Iraqi soldier in civilian clothes) u have to be happy about an asshole being captured. The militia have no reason to attack american now, they dont have a leader. The terrorist funders are being captured too.

(btw: im only joking about the anti war being european and pro war being american. Its just a joke)

The Germans cant be blamed for avoiding war, look wat happened in the last 2 major wars they were in. Once their money was reduced to shit, and 2nd they were hated by everyone and split into 2 countries.

The French got their asses kicked since Napoleon lost at Russia and Waterloo. Its ovbious they're afraid of war.

anyways: i think france and germany is being plain stupid if they think they should have a piece of the spoils of war. WTF did they do? Were they opposed to war because they thought US was going to lose and they wouldnt have had spoiles to gather? Now tat US completely owned Iraq, those stupid leaders of the countries want to gain money from it. Then they get mad when US refuses... come on, did they expect anything less?

it doesnt matter if US motives were shit or not, the french and germans have no right even to ASK for such a thing. They didnt even send in one water bottle for the cause....
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Old 2003-12-16, 22:48   Link #52
wnkryo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
u guys argue too much about political crap. No matter wat side ure on, pro-war (americans) or anti-war (European) or neutral (everyone else) Hussein was an asshole, and regardless of other dicatators, we have one in custody. Isnt tat a good thing? Forget the war, and WMD its over. we have hussein and no matter wat side ure on (unless ure a Hussein lovin Iraqi soldier in civilian clothes) u have to be happy about an asshole being captured. The militia have no reason to attack american now, they dont have a leader. The terrorist funders are being captured too.

(btw: im only joking about the anti war being european and pro war being american. Its just a joke)

The Germans cant be blamed for avoiding war, look wat happened in the last 2 major wars they were in. Once their money was reduced to shit, and 2nd they were hated by everyone and split into 2 countries.

The French got their asses kicked since Napoleon lost at Russia and Waterloo. Its ovbious they're afraid of war.

anyways: i think france and germany is being plain stupid if they think they should have a piece of the spoils of war. WTF did they do? Were they opposed to war because they thought US was going to lose and they wouldnt have had spoiles to gather? Now tat US completely owned Iraq, those stupid leaders of the countries want to gain money from it. Then they get mad when US refuses... come on, did they expect anything less?

it doesnt matter if US motives were shit or not, the french and germans have no right even to ASK for such a thing. They didnt even send in one water bottle for the cause....

Actually, I think France wanted to help rebuild Iraq, but im sure it was just a ploy to get on america's good side becuase America reluctently declined.
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Old 2003-12-17, 09:11   Link #53
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSuitCaliber
It should be a public execution with a big sharp knife and show those iraqi bastards that we will not stand for their insurections against our country and troops.
Just a question when you say our country, do you speak of Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
The militia have no reason to attack american now, they dont have a leader. The terrorist funders are being captured too.
You have obviously no idea of the situation in Iraq, nor you have an idea of the motivations of the various side, each religious and ethnique group wants the power and some of them didn't attacked the army because they feared the return of Saddam.
The capture of Saddam is a good thing by itlself but nothing is over, in fact the situation can become worst than before.


Quote:
The Germans cant be blamed for avoiding war, look wat happened in the last 2 major wars they were in. Once their money was reduced to shit, and 2nd they were hated by everyone and split into 2 countries.

The French got their asses kicked since Napoleon lost at Russia and Waterloo. Its ovbious they're afraid of war.
lol sorry but this is a heaps of stupidity, did you really think that this was a relevant analysis?
Informs you a little about the reaction of these two countries for the preceding war like in the Kosovo, in Afganistan, or for the first war in the Gulf to speak only about the last ones.

Quote:
WTF did they do? Were they opposed to war because they thought US was going to lose and they wouldnt have had spoiles to gather? Now tat US completely owned Iraq, those stupid leaders of the countries want to gain money from it. Then they get mad when US refuses... come on, did they expect anything less?
The French and the German (and almost all the world actually, even in Poland and Spain the population weres at 90% against the war while their leader agreed to help Bush) weren't opposed to war because they thought that the US was going to lose, I mean, seriously, be realistic for 2 secondes lol.

I had read a good article of the National Journal (it's a Washington political newspaper) which showed that the french warnings (and of other countries, but the french were those who presented the arguments more insistently) weren't simply that war was a bad idea, but that an invasion's consequences could be harmful to Western interests and to the larger war on terror.

The French made three basic claims (all countered, in varying degrees of intensity, by the Bush administration). The first was that the threat posed by Saddam wasn't imminent, and that's borne out by all available evidence, not least the latest report by Bush-appointed arms inspector David Kay, in which he stated that no weapons of mass destruction had been found.
The second claim was that democracy-building in Iraq was going to be a lengthy, difficult, bloody process with the Iraqi population very likely to view the Americans as occupiers, not liberators. Quite apart from the spate of attacks on U.S. soldiers by various fanatics, this claim is borne out by polls showing that a majority of Iraqis would like the United States to leave.
And third, the French correctly predicted that the Muslim world would perceive a U.S.led intervention lacking the explicit blessing of the United Nations as illegitimate and thus would incite even greater anger toward America.

But it's so much simple to say that they're cheese eatin' surrender monkeys.
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Old 2003-12-17, 09:20   Link #54
dragonz20
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You mean it's a ploy to receive contracts in Iraq and boost their shitty economy up right? Cause that is exactly what this is all about. It's not about getting back on the US's good side, it's about convincing the US to allow France to earn some contract works in Iraq. Let's no delude ourselves here. France, Germany and Russia didn't goto war because of economics. They were owed several billions of dollars and now they are being "forced" to write off the debt so they won't look like like hungry jackals to the rest of the world. And now they aren't even allowed to receive any contract work to help rebuild Iraq which is another slap in the face.

None of those countries have lifted a single finger or provided financial help in the cause and now they wanna make money out of it.

As badly as some of you make the US to be, I'd rather support a country (US, Great Britain, Australia, etc...) that helps get rid of a despotic tyrant who's terrorized its neighboring countries and his own people and make money out of it than support a country (France, Germany, Russia, etc...) who allows a despotic tyrant to reign and make money out of it.

And personally I haven't seen a single benefit coming out of this war besides the satisfaction of knowing that we are improving the life and giving more freedom to iraqis. We've spent several hundred of millions of dollars of our tax money to fund this and probably several hundreds more to help rebuild, i have several friends risking their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan.

*edit billions into millions.. we're past millions and into billions already.. just not hundreds yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
Actually, I think France wanted to help rebuild Iraq, but im sure it was just a ploy to get on america's good side becuase America reluctently declined.
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Last edited by dragonz20; 2003-12-17 at 14:13.
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Old 2003-12-17, 09:36   Link #55
p3psi
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SOme of you guys are pulling "facts" out of your asses, and some of you are displaying your opinions and speculations as facts.

and some are you are just regurgitating what some
one-sided politcal pundit said on a sunday morning news show, who is just doing the same things as some of you guys are doing: selling thier opinions as the truth.
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Old 2003-12-17, 09:46   Link #56
dragonz20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
SOme of you guys are pulling "facts" out of your asses, and some of you are displaying your opinions and speculations as facts.

and some are you are just regurgitating what some
one-sided politcal pundit said on a sunday morning news show, who is just doing the same things as some of you guys are doing: selling thier opinions as the truth.

And of course you have evidence of us pulling "facts" out of our asses right? I'd like to hear what you have to say? or maybe u have nothing to say? maybe you have something completely original that hasn't been politically harped by someone that the general masse hasn't heard already? regardless, it's easy to mock others when you, yourself have nothing worthwhile to contribute to this thread...
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Old 2003-12-17, 09:48   Link #57
p3psi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonz20
And of course you have evidence of us pulling "facts" out of our asses right? I'd like to hear what you have to say? or maybe u have nothing to say? maybe you have something completely original that hasn't been politically harped by someone that the general masse hasn't heard already? regardless, it's easy to mock others when you, yourself have nothing worthwhile to contribute to this thread...
I dont see any links to sources to reputable news journals? dont you have any?

should i consider it to be worth while to discuss politics with anime fans on an anime board?
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Old 2003-12-17, 09:57   Link #58
dragonz20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
I dont see any links to sources to reputable news journals? are dont you have any?

are you speaking about links to sources from reputable news journals offering opinions that are skewd and favoring that country's agenda? probably the same skewd opinions that have been regurgitated from some one-sided political pundit said on a sunday morning news show?...

you're the one attacking those in here that have posted their opinions so if anything, you should be providing proofs of your allegations. like i said, it's easy to mock others but i have yet to see where u stand on this issue...


edit #1
p3psi said:
should i consider it to be worth while to discuss politics with anime fans on an anime board?


and why not? this is a general board and we can speak about anything we want. i believe the title said "saddam hussein captured!!!!" so this is definitely related to politics. and you have already put in your useless 2-cents by trashing others without backing it up. so it was definitely worth your while to jump on this thread, read its contents and mock others but yet it's not worth your while to back up your shit. maybe u don't think too highly of anime fans in here?
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Old 2003-12-17, 10:05   Link #59
p3psi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonz20
are you speaking about links to sources from reputable news journals offering opinions that are skewd and favoring that country's agenda? probably the same skewd opinions that have been regurgitated from some one-sided political pundit said on a sunday morning news show?...

you're the one attacking those in here that have posted their opinions so if anything, you should be providing proofs of your allegations. like i said, it's easy to mock others but i have yet to see where u stand on this issue...
Quote:
You mean it's a ploy to receive contracts in Iraq and boost their shitty economy up right? Cause that is exactly what this is all about. It's not about getting back on the US's good side, it's about convincing the US to allow France to earn some contract works in Iraq. Let's no delude ourselves here. France, Germany and Russia didn't goto war because of economics. They were owed several billions of dollars and now they are being "forced" to write off the debt so they won't look like like hungry jackals to the rest of the world. And now they aren't even allowed to receive any contract work to help rebuild Iraq which is another slap in the face.
I see, you are in the mix of the generals calling the shots. In side the pentagon briefing rooms, having tea with the president. meeting with ambassador, and sleeping in the sands of iraq.

Using words such as "probally", and "it seems to me" helps keep your sepeculations as speculations.

I understand that you're adamant about your political views, but keep them just as that, as your personal evaluations.
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Old 2003-12-17, 10:10   Link #60
dragonz20
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No but I do work for DoD, Department of Defense if that's worth anything.

and i'd rather speculate than trash other people's opinions while siting on the fence and have no opinions whatsoever on the topic like u.



Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
I see, you are in the mix of the generals calling the shots. In side the pentagon briefing rooms, having tea with the president. meeting with ambassador, and sleeping in the sands of iraq.

Using words such as "probally", and "it seems to me" helps keep your sepeculations as speculations.

I understand that you're adamant about your political views, but keep them just as that, as your personal evaluations.
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"In the Rain I was smiling. But I was really crying. I was really crying..." -Seta Soujiro-
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