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Old 2003-12-17, 10:20   Link #61
p3psi
Oscar winning black actor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonz20
No but I do work for DoD, Department of Defense if that's worth anything.

and i'd rather speculate than trash other people's opinions while siting on the fence and have no opinions whatsoever on the topic like u.
AH, Im not trashing other's opinions, for some of you seem to put more faith in them than your religions.

So not adding my own thoughts means i have nothing to say? you're implying that I'm an outsider, and im out of my element.
not saying anything means this is true, correct?

well, if thats what you personally believe, you certanliy said it as factual as you could.
Quote:
and i'd rather speculate than trash other people's opinions while siting on the fence and have no opinions whatsoever on the topic like u.
Im attacking more of how you say things, not what you say. For the way we say things matter, if you chose to belive it or not.
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Old 2003-12-17, 10:27   Link #62
dragonz20
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Yeah well if you disagree with something then tell us. don't just say "you guys are pulling stuff out of your asses" and leave it like that. back up your statement. you can't just post something ignorant like that and not follow up on it. that's pretty damn close to flaming if anything.
if u don't want to add your thoughts (if you have any at all) into this thread then u shouldn't have posted anything at all. or at least not attack us...


Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
AH, Im not trashing other's opinions, for some of you seem to put more faith in them than your religions.

So not adding my own thoughts means i have nothing to say? you're implying that I'm an outsider, and im out of my element.
not saying anything means this is true, correct?

well, if thats what you personally believe, you certanliy said it as factual as you could.


Im attacking more of how you say things, not what you say. For the way we say things matter, if you chose to belive it or not.
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Old 2003-12-17, 11:45   Link #63
Mr. Bushido
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Quote:
You have obviously no idea of the situation in Iraq, nor you have an idea of the motivations of the various side, each religious and ethnique group wants the power and some of them didn't attacked the army because they feared the return of Saddam.
The capture of Saddam is a good thing by itlself but nothing is over, in fact the situation can become worst than before.
For once Hunter, lets be grown up in debates. this is nothing but opinion based. I dont remember u going to every Iraqi ppl and asking them wat their motivation is. Since i speak 7 languages ive seen more different points of views than ur entire family. ive personally asked 10 iraqi soldiers as well

Quote:
lol sorry but this is a heaps of stupidity, did you really think that this was a relevant analysis?
Informs you a little about the reaction of these two countries for the preceding war like in the Kosovo, in Afganistan, or for the first war in the Gulf to speak only about the last ones.
of course because ur opinion is so much better. and ure the all knowing person of earth we're all stupid. ur commenting about my ignorance, thats not stupid. Thats just me not looking at news. YOURE stupid for callin ignorance stupid. i dont blame u tho, everyone has right to be stupid.


Quote:
The French and the German (and almost all the world actually, even in Poland and Spain the population weres at 90% against the war while their leader agreed to help Bush) weren't opposed to war because they thought that the US was going to lose, I mean, seriously, be realistic for 2 secondes lol.
they're cheese eating pussy monkeys!

Quote:
I had read a good article of the National Journal (it's a Washington political newspaper) which showed that the french warnings (and of other countries, but the french were those who presented the arguments more insistently) weren't simply that war was a bad idea, but that an invasion's consequences could be harmful to Western interests and to the larger war on terror.

The French made three basic claims (all countered, in varying degrees of intensity, by the Bush administration). The first was that the threat posed by Saddam wasn't imminent, and that's borne out by all available evidence, not least the latest report by Bush-appointed arms inspector David Kay, in which he stated that no weapons of mass destruction had been found.
The second claim was that democracy-building in Iraq was going to be a lengthy, difficult, bloody process with the Iraqi population very likely to view the Americans as occupiers, not liberators. Quite apart from the spate of attacks on U.S. soldiers by various fanatics, this claim is borne out by polls showing that a majority of Iraqis would like the United States to leave.
And third, the French correctly predicted that the Muslim world would perceive a U.S.led intervention lacking the explicit blessing of the United Nations as illegitimate and thus would incite even greater anger toward America.

But it's so much simple to say that they're cheese eatin' surrender monkeys
of course, if you were french leaders would u say "i dont want to fight because im a pussy" Its all bs to hide their true motives: THEY ARE CHESS EATIN SURRENDER MONKEYS!



THAT ENTIRE POST was just a joke just in case u didnt get that hunter, and knowing u, u wouldnt. (frankly many of u wouldnt catch sarcasm in that....)



quite frankly i dont give a crap about Iraq. i quit looking into tat when everyone just kept yelling END THE WAR END THE WAR, and texas was going "STFU FIGHT STFU FIGHT!" After that the news was being biased either for war or against war. So i quit looking into tat too. I just say: if ure american regarldess of ur opinions support ur troops. Im sure lot of them are against war too, but they're fighting and dying, so just support them.

Huessien was captured, and tat alone is a good thing.

im neutral on this war, its just way out there. America needs economic boost, but going to war for it seems stupid to me. Does Hussein have WMD? apparently not, but who knows, its not gonna be giant factory with "here is WMD" on the door. is Hussein a ppl killing dictator? apprently yes, but involving innocent iraqi civilians? is bush stupid? Yea, but hes the president, dont like him? just vote against him.
this war produced giant assholes who speak their opinions like facts and calling ppl stupid for having different opinions. this forum is just another example.
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Old 2003-12-17, 12:50   Link #64
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonz20
Let's no delude ourselves here. France, Germany and Russia didn't goto war because of economics. They were owed several billions of dollars and now they are being "forced" to write off the debt so they won't look like like hungry jackals to the rest of the world. And now they aren't even allowed to receive any contract work to help rebuild Iraq which is another slap in the face.
I will repeat myself : it was obvious from the beginning that after the US army surrounded Iraq, Bush wasn't going to decide to stop the war.

So if they wanted to protect their economic interest, why didn't they just say : Yeah Baby Bush, we're right behind you cowboy!
Because actually, France lost its interest because it was against the war.


Quote:
As badly as some of you make the US to be, I'd rather support a country (US, Great Britain, Australia, etc...) that helps get rid of a despotic tyrant who's terrorized its neighboring countries and his own people and make money out of it than support a country (France, Germany, Russia, etc...) who allows a despotic tyrant to reign and make money out of it.
Don't be too hypocritical, the US too allowed the same despotic tyrant to reign and make money out of it more than any other contries, and continue to do the same thing with other dicatorial governments all around the Earth.
Like all the other industrialized countries.

Quote:
And personally I haven't seen a single benefit coming out of this war besides the satisfaction of knowing that we are improving the life and giving more freedom to iraqis. We've spent several hundred of billions of dollars of our tax money to fund this and probably several hundreds more to help rebuild, i have several friends risking their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Yeah that's true and I don't think that normal citizen will never see a single benefit from this.
For the Bush government and their friends it's an other story.
And for the improving of the life in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's just a dream for the moment.
In Afghanistan, Taliban are always there, and exept in the capital, the situation in the country practically didn't change.
At Bagdad there is less of terrorsim's attacks, only 25~30 per day, with dozens Iraqi civilian death each times.

Zoro it's not the first time that you post something nor funny nor sarcastic and say after that people don't understand you because you were joking.
Maybe you should train your sarcasm a little more, just on Microsoft Word, before posting them.
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Old 2003-12-17, 12:59   Link #65
Shii
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We love Saddam <3

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Old 2003-12-17, 13:26   Link #66
dragonz20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
I will repeat myself : it was obvious from the beginning that after the US army surrounded Iraq, Bush wasn't going to decide to stop the war.

So if they wanted to protect their economic interest, why didn't they just say : Yeah Baby Bush, we're right behind you cowboy!
Because actually, France lost its interest because it was against the war.
ummm.. no... France, Germany, and Russia were actually pushing for no war. At that time, they had tons of global support and every tree-hugging pacifist were rallying and doing street protest. Those 3 together had controlling power in the UN and pushed for no war because they had financial interest in Iraq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Don't be too hypocritical, the US too allowed the same despotic tyrant to reign and make money out of it more than any other contries, and continue to do the same thing with other dicatorial governments all around the Earth.
Like all the other industrialized countries. .
First of all, times changes and so do our allies and enemies. At the time, that same despotic maniac did not massively kill several thousands of his own people or attack Kuwait. The US believed waaaay back then that Saddam was a good choice to lead Iraq. Unfortunately, things didn't pan out and we had cut ties. But at least we didn't continue selling weapons so he can continue using them to rule. And second of all, you're wrong on the money count. we didn't make the most money out of Saddam. Better get your facts straight on that. But I understand your concern. I do share some doubts about our foreign policies because how can we dispose of one evil ruler but support others. Regardless of our confusing foreign agendas, one thing is for certain. Removing Saddam was a good thing and worth the cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Yeah that's true and I don't think that normal citizen will never see a single benefit from this.
For the Bush government and their friends it's an other story.
And for the improving of the life in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's just a dream for the moment.
In Afghanistan, Taliban are always there, and exept in the capital, the situation in the country practically didn't change.
At Bagdad there is less of terrorsim's attacks, only 25~30 per day, with dozens Iraqi civilian death each times.

Zoro it's not the first time that you post something nor funny nor sarcastic and say after that people don't understand you because you were joking.
Maybe you should train your sarcasm a little more, just on Microsoft Word, before posting them.
Most people knew that this war and the aftermath would be a difficult path. But just because it's difficult doesn't mean it shouldn't be taken. If there is a small chance that Iraq can truly become a democratic country where every Iraqis can voice their opinions without fear of retaliation and blaze the way for the rest of the other Muslim countries to follow, then it'd be a chance well worth taking...

And Zoro needs to work on a lot of things. Mainly catching up on real world affairs and politics, differentiating between x-files stories and the REAL WORLD, english comprehension and sentence structuring to name a few...
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Old 2003-12-17, 15:18   Link #67
wnkryo
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: new york city
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
SOme of you guys are pulling "facts" out of your asses, and some of you are displaying your opinions and speculations as facts.

and some are you are just regurgitating what some
one-sided politcal pundit said on a sunday morning news show, who is just doing the same things as some of you guys are doing: selling thier opinions as the truth.

This is , but p3psi always has the some of the damn funniest avatars I ever seen (Like the one with the monkey )
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Old 2003-12-17, 17:17   Link #68
p3psi
Oscar winning black actor
 
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Maybe I lack the words to express my ideas, and perhaps my
English is sub par compared to most, but it still seems that you donít acknowledge what I have said.
Or maybe itís because of my dancing monkey ava and misspelled
sig that makes you refutes my comments, and thus, not take me seriously. And i usally try to make light of most threads on these boards by posting something silly, maybe thats why.

Speculations must sound like speculations for you to call them that. Masking your opinions as facts is the same thing as pulling them out of your ass.

You keep asking for evidence to disprove people who provided none, seem kind of awkward, but good. Youíre finally asking what no one else demanded yet; proof of at least some worth of what they said has some substance to it.
Well except Hunter, because he can see through bullshit of people who are mis- and under informed, and as he so happens to phrase most of his thoughts as just that, his thoughts and not feed them to you as ďwhat is and what isnítď. And he actually referred to an article, from a journal with people who actually do some research and fact checking.
Read his posts, and youíll find out what Iím talking about.

Iím not applying that you, dragonz20, are doing all the ass fishing for facts. But I believe everyone needs to know how to express their ideas differently: e.g:ďÖthis is exactly what its all aboutÖĒ , and when you give no sign of what you said could be wrong,

This goes for everyone who wants to discuss politics, if you express your ideas without leaving yourself some cushion; the harder it is to defend yourself when someone pulls out evidence to the contrary. Thatís why you see politicians, pundits, and even journalists/newsmen usually pretense their thoughts and responses with such words as ďI believe/feel, itís highly feasible, quite realistically, etc.Ē

Also, this is the reason why I havenít shared my views about the war, foreign relations etc. I feel that the level of conversation on this thread doesnít provide me with enough merit to post my views when some person as described above will contest my post with some frivolous thought they reconstructed from a schema of watching anime and playing everquest 10 hours a day with a bag of funyuns, and overhearing a conversations about bush at some internet cafť. To be attacked with some absurd argument, and having to prove to someone why what they said was just plain ludicrous, isnít worth the time explaining. For the fact that they would say such a thing in the first place would be beyond me. If i want to talk polictics, i do so in real life, where i know the person whom im talking too, and not just some text on my screen.

Iím not personally bashing anyone one of you here, itís just that I feel when I see some of the comments on this thread, I realize that this is an anime forum.

And I realize that I didnít have to type this (and I shouldnít have), but dragonz20 took it as a personal flameÖ and as a flame on everyone here and I guess I couldnít leave it hanging.
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Old 2003-12-17, 19:33   Link #69
Mr. Bushido
Zoro
 
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Yes i need to work on so much things. None of them are the things u mentioned dragon. Im getting a nice A in an AP english class, also one in AP History (Euro) X files and real life??? when did i make a x files story?

Frankly i dont care about my english grammar on the forums. I tried using completely proper english and all i got in respond was "wat does ___ mean?" This is an online forum full of europeans and asians who doesnt speak english tat well. So why should i bother doing tat? i can write with no punctuation except when it NEEDS to be there to be understood. Ppl still understand. Ill say it again: Im too busy with school to go over my writing on an online forum full of ppl i dont know and having to explain words like "loquacious" to french ppl online. All i have to say is "talkitive" i can even spell it wrong like "tlkitive" or "tlakitive" and 90% of the time ppl will understand.

yea hunter, that was my only joke on this thread and probably on this forum. i dont know wat ure talking about. also im sorry i cant get my "TONE" (u DO know wat that is?) online where my voice isnt present. however, ill try to practice how to make my sarcastic voice be heard online through written words. i said i was sarcastic, not satrical

when did i mention x-files stories?? Youre labeling me for stupid things ive never done. Catch up on world affairs? You mean Iraq is the only thing going on in the world today?? Holy shit, where have i been then? I must've been lost in other affairs this whole time that only exists in x-files! like the giant CA fire, i knew that was fake! Also the current american economic issues, the CA government re-call, the new laws in CA that takes health-care, liscences from immigrants, and education funding away. I knew that had to be fake, i mean who would think tat Arnold would be CA's governor?

frankly u guys overexagerate things when i say one stupid things here and there. Most of which is only ur opinions. I say i didnt follow the Iraq problem, and said tat French ppl are afraid to fight another war, and all of a sudden im way behind world affairs and a xfiles guy.

Ive never seen or heard an Iraq story tat isnt biased, so i gave up. Maybe because i live in america, who knows?
Im looking more into, and analyzing the xmas situation in america. Of course u guys know wat it would mean if malls are emptied out by frenzy shoppers right? Bush will most likely get re-elected. If no one buys, Bush is less likely. Seeing there isnt a good democratic candidate, either way it seems bush will win. But id like to see how well our economy is doing. Not decide my place on Iraqi war and conclude whos right and whos not. id vote for a 3rd party if i knew anyone worth the presidency. So i dont care about that. I DO care if our economy is low tho.


:fingers: Here is to you fools who think ur better than others.

PEPSI: u only hurt their pride, and they want it back. Nothing more. They took something u said to the extreme, got hurt, and is now demanding u apologize for the "flaming" u did. pitiful i think.
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Old 2003-12-17, 19:41   Link #70
PiGGiEE
PiGGiEE Judo Chop Chop!
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Didn't Will Smith say that he wanted to become President one day? Well we have a wrestler and an actor for governor... I guess then... weeeeeeeeeeee I vote for Will Smith

Off Topic --> HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!!!!!
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Old 2003-12-17, 19:48   Link #71
Shii
Afflicted by the vanities
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Ppl still understand.
Ppl will also think you're pretty stupid.
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Old 2003-12-17, 20:01   Link #72
Mr. Bushido
Zoro
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Ppl will also think you're pretty stupid.
no, only ppl with superiority complex.

Even if ppl think that, wat do i care? Do i know you? Do i know them? They can think im stupid all they want. My teachers know im smart, my counslors know im smart, my friends know im smart, my family knows im smart. Those are ppl i know and i actually care about wat opinions they have on me. Youre just a person on an online forum. Do i care wat you think? Honestly do YOU care wat i think about you????
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Old 2003-12-17, 20:22   Link #73
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonz20
ummm.. no... France, Germany, and Russia were actually pushing for no war. At that time, they had tons of global support and every tree-hugging pacifist were rallying and doing street protest. Those 3 together had controlling power in the UN and pushed for no war because they had financial interest in Iraq.
No no I think you miss what I wanted to say.
My point is if France (and some other contry but France is the principal target ^^) wanted so bad to protect its economic interest (and I can understand that, countries don't decide their policy to be nice), if really the economic thing is their only reason, why didn't they help Bush?
I mean, you can think what's you want but the french politicians are professionals, it's impossible that they didn't know which would be the consequences of a refusal.


Quote:
First of all, times changes and so do our allies and enemies. At the time, that same despotic maniac did not massively kill several thousands of his own people or attack Kuwait.
Saddam always was a despotic maniac, he took the power in Iraq on the dead bodies of those who were against him.
But he was a despotic maniac who was going to fight Iran, and in this time Iran was the great ennemis.
It's always like that, when the US governments will understand that the enemies of our enemies aren't our friends maybe things will be better.



Zoro, yes this is a forum full of european and asian and it's easier to read a well spelled english than abreviations when you aren't very good in this language.
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Old 2003-12-17, 20:45   Link #74
Mr. Bushido
Zoro
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
No no I think you miss what I wanted to say.
My point is if France (and some other contry but France is the principal target ^^) wanted so bad to protect its economic interest (and I can understand that, countries don't decide their policy to be nice), if really the economic thing is their only reason, why didn't they help Bush?
I mean, you can think what's you want but the french politicians are professionals, it's impossible that they didn't know which would be the consequences of a refusal.




Saddam always was a despotic maniac, he took the power in Iraq on the dead bodies of those who were against him.
But he was a despotic maniac who was going to fight Iran, and in this time Iran was the great ennemis.
It's always like that, when the US governments will understand that the enemies of our enemies aren't our friends maybe things will be better.



Zoro, yes this is a forum full of european and asian and it's easier to read a well spelled english than abreviations when you aren't very good in this language.
oook... You guys want proper English that badly? I mean, I don't understand the need for it. I'll try to break old habits for you fools, who understands what im saying anyways, so that you won't bitch like hell.

Of course, all leaders of their countries are professionals politician.(excluding President Bush). Who cares why the French refused, America only cares that they refused.

I know what you're saying Hunter. US has always been like that, no matter how much of an asshole you are, if you're the enemy of US's bigger enemy, you're US's friend. I mean, how many dictators did US set up to fight a communist enemy?

I went to a book store in a mall (looking for manga) and found a political book. The entire book was about the Iraq situation. I didn't read through the whole 200 pages, nor did i even read one page. (lol) I only looked at the back and found this written on it, "The 2nd war on Iraq was decided and planned before Bush came into office." Unfortunetly, that was all it said in the back. (I got a phone call to go back home as soon as I read that). The book was alledgely written by a former member of the intellegence of the Pentagon. Do you guys think it's the truth?
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Old 2003-12-17, 21:15   Link #75
p3psi
Oscar winning black actor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Yes i need to work on so much things. None of them are the things u mentioned dragon. Im getting a nice A in an AP english class, also one in AP History (Euro) X files and real life??? when did i make a x files story?

Frankly i dont care about my english grammar on the forums. I tried using completely proper english and all i got in respond was "wat does ___ mean?" This is an online forum full of europeans and asians who doesnt speak english tat well. So why should i bother doing tat? i can write with no punctuation except when it NEEDS to be there to be understood. Ppl still understand. Ill say it again: Im too busy with school to go over my writing on an online forum full of ppl i dont know and having to explain words like "loquacious" to french ppl online. All i have to say is "talkitive" i can even spell it wrong like "tlkitive" or "tlakitive" and 90% of the time ppl will understand.
zoro, good point, but not really realted to what I said.
ummmm, thats if you're talking about my last post.

Oh, and i shouldnt bother explaining why, for it seems you could care less, and because i have a, what did you call it?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
superiority complex
double duce right back at you :fingers:

Im only messing with you btw, not flaming!!!!
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Old 2003-12-17, 21:32   Link #76
Mr. Bushido
Zoro
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3psi
zoro, good point, but not really realted to what I said.
ummmm, thats if you're talking about my last post.

Oh, and i shouldnt bother explaining why, for it seems you could care less, and because i have a, what did you call it?:

double duce right back at you :fingers:

Im only messing with you btw, not flaming!!!!

lol. That post wasn't directed at you (or at least I think it wasn't).
I know you aren't flaming. You're one of the good humoured guys on this forum.
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Old 2003-12-17, 22:34   Link #77
wnkryo
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Nah, thier isnt much flaming going on, just some intelectual debating.
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Old 2003-12-18, 01:05   Link #78
boneyjellyfish
Evangelist of the Kazoo
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
Nah, thier isnt much flaming going on, just some intelectual debating.
I've been looking through most of the posts on this page, and I think the only people debating anything are dragonz20 and Hunter. Please, everybody. Do not go off-topic (though the original topic has sort of become lost now).

And here's a little something for Zoro...
Spoiler:


One little point I'd like to make: I think Saddam should not be tried as a prisoner of war. However, I do think that he should be tried in Iraq by the people of Iraq.
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Old 2003-12-18, 10:48   Link #79
dragonz20
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to p3psi,

my information comes from a wide variety of credible sources. not only do i read US news, but I also read foreign news (for different opinions) and I get some inside source due to the fact that I am DoD employee.
Concerning what I have posted, it is based on what knowledge I possess and have read. They are mostly correct (based on my opinion). I never once posted, THIS IS A FACT. I posted something and I allowed everyone else here to run with their own interpretation. So if you wish to contradict whatever I say, then post something and let's talk about it.
This follows up with what I've been complaining earlier about u. You basically came into this thread and trashed everyone else's opinion (because u claim it's how we said it) but u don't offer any specifics or examples and u don't back up any of your claims. if you felt it wasn't worth your time to argue with anime fans (you painted a very pretty picture by da way), then you shouldn't have started the bashing or even posted in here in the first place. to me, that's the sign of a coward. i believe myself to be very informed and very knowledgeable so if you wish, you can start a debate with me right now. I don't pull any punches though and i say it like it is if it is right. and i will admit i am wrong. so if you got something to say in this topic then say it and stop beating around the bush. disregard anyone else who doesn't provide intelligent feedback because that's what i do... or better yet, i trash them in return... but you have someone in here willing to debate with u if you want. if you want me to provide articles from respectable news sources to back up my statements then i can do that too. i don't do it because (1) i am lazy, (2) i like to assume that you and everyone else is as informed as i am about it.

Zoro,

I've read some of the things u've posted before (in other threads) and I've concluded that u're an idiot based on what u typed there, not in this thread (although it did strengthen my opinion about u). As for typing in a forum, it doesn't matter if you use proper english but at least write it so that people can understand easily. one can use broken english and incomplete sentences but still communicate effectively but you are a embarrassment to all English speaking people. you probably use english all day and yet you can't type a decent article on this forum even if it meant your life. maybe it's because u know 6 languages and your head's all confused. i really don't know and don't wish to know. So you're in AP classes? like I give a sh*t. I was in AP classes and I breezed through high school too. So your credentials don't impress anyone, least of all me. What does matter is the complete "bullsh*t" you've been posted in here. You're lucky I don't have as much time as some of you do (cause I work.. sometimes) or I would have blasted all the stupid things you've posted in here.


In the end, boneyjellyfish is right. besides myself and Hunter, none of you have posted on-topic. So if you want to post in here, I suggest you stick to the topic @ hand.
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Old 2003-12-18, 11:32   Link #80
dragonz20
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Here are my counterpoints to your claim:

1. France, Germany, and Russia had control of the UN. Plain and simple, there was NO WAY the UN would have approved the war.
2. Global support for the war was close to nonexistent. We only had Britain, Australia and few smaller nations supporting us but that's it.

Adding these two points, France and others believed that the US would back off from a war. UN support was very important but not necessary and the US tried its best to get it but to no avail.

3. Even if let's say as u claim, France and the others decided to join in the war. There was NO guarantee that their loans would be repaid. Their loans was to Saddam's government. Not the current one. And apparently, Saddam abused most of those funds for his pleasure instead of providing for his own people. Basically, it didn't matter which side France, Germany and Russia were on. As long as there was a war and Saddam was disposed of, then they were (and are) in danger of losing their loans to Iraq. They only guarantee to their money was ensuring that Saddam stayed in power. France and Russia had 8 billion reasons to keep Saddam in power. Germany had about close to 2 billion reasons...

As for changing allies and enemies as time goes on. What can we do about that? If you go back to the time when we allied ourselves with Iraq, we weren't exactly friendly with Russia or China. but now, Russia is one of our biggest allies and China is one our biggest trading partners in the world (cause everything is made in china now...) Who would have thought 25-30 years ago that we'd warm up to communism and see Russia completely break down?... It's easy to look back and say, oh, the US used to support Saddam and look now... yeah well, french women used to not shave their armpits and look now... they still don't shave their armpits... (d'oh!... bad example..)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
No no I think you miss what I wanted to say.
My point is if France (and some other contry but France is the principal target ^^) wanted so bad to protect its economic interest (and I can understand that, countries don't decide their policy to be nice), if really the economic thing is their only reason, why didn't they help Bush?
I mean, you can think what's you want but the french politicians are professionals, it's impossible that they didn't know which would be the consequences of a refusal.




Saddam always was a despotic maniac, he took the power in Iraq on the dead bodies of those who were against him.
But he was a despotic maniac who was going to fight Iran, and in this time Iran was the great ennemis.
It's always like that, when the US governments will understand that the enemies of our enemies aren't our friends maybe things will be better.



Zoro, yes this is a forum full of european and asian and it's easier to read a well spelled english than abreviations when you aren't very good in this language.
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"Pigs who defy Me will suffer the consequences of my Wrath..." -Morino Ibiki-
"In the Rain I was smiling. But I was really crying. I was really crying..." -Seta Soujiro-
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted,then used against you"
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