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Old 2006-01-28, 19:29   Link #21
Kona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desti-Fate
It stuns me that people are complaining about Hitsuguya's bankai when they have far more rubbish bankai like Ikkaku's to whine about.

I mean, at least Shirou-chan's bankai doesn't BREAK HIS SPINE.
Ikkakus bankai is not rubbish. It gets stronger every attack and we dont know the abilities of it excluding the dye of the dragon crest. I wouldnt make hasty decisions until we see more of him.
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Old 2006-01-28, 21:43   Link #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona
Ikkakus bankai is not rubbish. It gets stronger every attack and we dont know the abilities of it excluding the dye of the dragon crest. I wouldnt make hasty decisions until we see more of him.


Serioulsy


Do not doubt the power of Baldy-san. He has to have one hell of a Ban kai.


And he IS in 11th squad afterall, and everyone but 5th seat [ I don't want to remember his name, Mr.Beautiful Bishonen ] have direct attack type Zanpakuto, So no fancy ice dragons or brain washing Zanpakuto there.
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Old 2006-01-29, 11:31   Link #23
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slightly off topic guys... anyway...

Tousen looks cooler now i think. and how powerful do you think Tousen is compared to Grimmjaw? cant be that much difference...
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Old 2006-01-29, 11:34   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolos
slightly off topic guys... anyway...

Tousen looks cooler now i think. and how powerful do you think Tousen is compared to Grimmjaw? cant be that much difference...

Well dreadlocks are bound to double ones power, and cool new shades probably increases it 30% over that.
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Old 2006-01-29, 15:06   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komataguri
Well dreadlocks are bound to double ones power, and cool new shades probably increases it 30% over that.
don't forget new hair style must give him at least +20% so he's now 3x strongar than Yamamoto
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Old 2006-01-29, 15:51   Link #26
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False. Its been proven that he will never attain full power without smashing his goggles and slickin his hair back with demon arts like Aizen.

Evidence: Renji lost his goggles after he attained Bankai. When his hair loosened was when he showed us his Shikai's second ability. The Baboon claw thing.

Point: As long as he has goggles, he is still trash. Period. Cant wait till he smashes it and slicks his hair back ^_^
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Old 2006-01-29, 17:13   Link #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS
False. Its been proven that he will never attain full power without smashing his goggles and slickin his hair back with demon arts like Aizen.

Evidence: Renji lost his goggles after he attained Bankai. When his hair loosened was when he showed us his Shikai's second ability. The Baboon claw thing.

Point: As long as he has goggles, he is still trash. Period. Cant wait till he smashes it and slicks his hair back ^_^

But wasn't Renji's shades some kind of scanner device?
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Old 2006-01-29, 18:17   Link #28
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is it me, or does it seem like there's a huge inflation in power now . It's like DBZ, everyone just gets more and more power as more enemies have more power. I'm disappointed at the simplicity of the fighting.
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Old 2006-01-29, 18:36   Link #29
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or maybe Thousen lost with Ken-chan on purpouse and came to state when near death so he lost his bankai... maybe he even thought that he can't hit Ken-chan because he knew we were watching his thoughts maybe Aizen told him to do so

can't wait when Nanao-chan will break her glasses and turn badass

do we realy know that Thousen is stronger than GrimJaw? isn't he just like messanger of whole Hollow and Aizen corp?
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Old 2006-01-29, 18:39   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edaindil
is it me, or does it seem like there's a huge inflation in power now . It's like DBZ, everyone just gets more and more power as more enemies have more power. I'm disappointed at the simplicity of the fighting.
But, the power-ups that we have observed are, if I am not mistaken, mentioned before. This is the maximum level those guys can reach.

If those Arrankars increase their power levels, then it will become problematic (more DBZ like) - if they create new Arrankars with higher power levels that is fine, but not giving higher power to the ones that are already there.

Also, the power-increase for Ichigo should be evaluated separately because of his hollow side (he is not bound to typical power-ups). Even as a shinigami, he was somewhat special.
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Old 2006-01-29, 20:25   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
But, the power-ups that we have observed are, if I am not mistaken, mentioned before. This is the maximum level those guys can reach.

If those Arrankars increase their power levels, then it will become problematic (more DBZ like) - if they create new Arrankars with higher power levels that is fine, but not giving higher power to the ones that are already there.

Also, the power-increase for Ichigo should be evaluated separately because of his hollow side (he is not bound to typical power-ups). Even as a shinigami, he was somewhat special.
Now how is it like DBZ just because they increase their spirit power? Isn't that one of the basic functions of spirit energy, or am I missing some thing and it supposed to be exclusive to DBZ...?
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Old 2006-01-29, 20:26   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
But, the power-ups that we have observed are, if I am not mistaken, mentioned before. This is the maximum level those guys can reach.

If those Arrankars increase their power levels, then it will become problematic (more DBZ like) - if they create new Arrankars with higher power levels that is fine, but not giving higher power to the ones that are already there.

Also, the power-increase for Ichigo should be evaluated separately because of his hollow side (he is not bound to typical power-ups). Even as a shinigami, he was somewhat special.

I like to think that, Ichigo has had pretty much the same power from the begining.


he is just learning to better use and focus it. Like look back at the beggining, he had the power to push back a friggen Menos Grande, But he didn't have the skill to control that power...and would have 'sploded if it wasn't for Uryuu.


I think his Bankai is just a means to further focus his power by compressing it, which I think is symbolized by his bankais small size.



In all reality, while his level of spirit power may increase marginally, I think this is all, for the most part, power he has had all along and just better using it. Like capping a burst hydrant, and focusing it through a small nozzel, getting more force and strength from the stream of water.
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Old 2006-01-29, 20:52   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
Now how is it like DBZ just because they increase their spirit power? Isn't that one of the basic functions of spirit energy, or am I missing some thing and it supposed to be exclusive to DBZ...?
I believe after reaching your highest point using bankai etc., what you can do are limited to what you already have. You can make some modifications to what you are using. You can learn some special techniques. But, the power level you have reached should not change much. I believe that is one of the reasons why Aizen wanted to obtain Hougyoku (I might be mistaken about the name), to go beyond his limit.

We have observed some kind of limit removal for the captains. If in the future, we see them double that power in a very short time, that would make a DBZ kind of power-up. The same thing is valid for Arankars. Unless they make some exterior modifications to themselves, under normal conditions, the power level they have reached should not change much.

For instance, I don't think under normal conditions, Urahara or Yoruichi should be able to multiply their power levels.
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Old 2006-01-29, 21:03   Link #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
I believe after reaching your highest point using bankai etc., what you can do are limited to what you already have. You can make some modifications to what you are using. You can learn some special techniques. But, the power level you have reached should not change much. I believe that is one of the reasons why Aizen wanted to obtain Hougyoku (I might be mistaken about the name), to go beyond his limit.

We have observed some kind of limit removal for the captains. If in the future, we see them double that power in a very short time, that would make a DBZ kind of power-up. The same thing is valid for Arankars. Unless they make some exterior modifications to themselves, under normal conditions, the power level they have reached should not change much.

For instance, I don't think under normal conditions, Urahara or Yoruichi should be able to multiply their power levels.
This don't answer my question... how is continuous progression DBZish at all, just because DBZ character have done it? It's like saying that Bleach is Rurouni Kenshin-ish or Samurai Deeper Kyo-ish just because they have samurai-style characters.

I... just don't see the logic in it
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Old 2006-01-29, 21:29   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
I believe after reaching your highest point using bankai etc., what you can do are limited to what you already have. You can make some modifications to what you are using. You can learn some special techniques. But, the power level you have reached should not change much. I believe that is one of the reasons why Aizen wanted to obtain Hougyoku (I might be mistaken about the name), to go beyond his limit.

We have observed some kind of limit removal for the captains. If in the future, we see them double that power in a very short time, that would make a DBZ kind of power-up. The same thing is valid for Arankars. Unless they make some exterior modifications to themselves, under normal conditions, the power level they have reached should not change much.

For instance, I don't think under normal conditions, Urahara or Yoruichi should be able to multiply their power levels.

The limit removal is not exactly a limit removal, Their spiritual power is sealed when they leave Soul Society so not to influence the world. When they remove that seal they return to the strength they were in soul society.


Remember how Ichigo's overflowing spiritual power influenced Chad and Inoue and lead to the birth of their own unique powers?



Thats what soul society tries to prevent by having captains just roaming around in the human world with their full power.

Thats what I believe, atleast.
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Old 2006-01-29, 21:40   Link #36
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer
This don't answer my question... how is continuous progression DBZish at all, just because DBZ character have done it? It's like saying that Bleach is Rurouni Kenshin-ish or Samurai Deeper Kyo-ish just because they have samurai-style characters.

I... just don't see the logic in it
Even if we assume there might be continuous progression (although I still believe there should be some limit), if they can achieve this power-up in a short amount of time, it becomes what we are talking about (DBZish). These shinigamis live a long life, so, I expect the progression rate to be low and the improvements to be slow - other than some break point - as in Bankai. If I am not mistaken, the fastest power ups that we have observed, other than Ichigo, are related to Bankais. And, we haven't heard any other possible level under normal conditions.

If those captain level shinigamis go, train and multiply their power in a very short time - without using something like Hougyoku or borrowing some hollow power, it becomes highly unrealistic for me (and that's where the connection to DB comes from).
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Old 2006-01-29, 21:57   Link #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
Even if we assume there might be continuous progression (although I still believe there should be some limit), if they can achieve this power-up in a short amount of time, it becomes what we are talking about (DBZish). These shinigamis live a long life, so, I expect the progression rate to be low and the improvements to be slow - other than some break point - as in Bankai. If I am not mistaken, the fastest power ups that we have observed, other than Ichigo, are related to Bankais. And, we haven't heard any other possible level under normal conditions.

If those captain level shinigamis go, train and multiply their power in a very short time - without using something like Hougyoku or borrowing some hollow power, it becomes highly unrealistic for me (and that's where the connection to DB comes from).
That's all true, but you have to factor in that Ichigo got trained by powerful Shinigami with the best of the best training methods... the power just didn't come out of nowhere(like, say, in the 1st Brolly movie). I'm sure other Shinigami couldn't say the same.
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Old 2006-01-29, 22:20   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer
That's all true, but you have to factor in that Ichigo got trained by powerful Shinigami with the best of the best training methods... the power just didn't come out of nowhere(like, say, in the 1st Brolly movie). I'm sure other Shinigami couldn't say the same.
It is generally the case that you have some potential (or let's say dormant power) and with training you try to reach that potential or increase the amount of power that you can use. This potential also represents the limit that you can reach.

Ichigo was trained to reach his limit in a very short time. But, still, as a shiginami, he has a single destination. By taking risks, he ran to that destination as fast as he can. He had talent for that. It may not be the same for any other Shinigami. But, still, there should be a single destination for any shinigami. You should not select another destination once you reach your initial destination.

Bleach, for me, at this time, is not DBZish. Unless those shinigamis go and increase their power level significantly by continuing to stay as a shinigami (no borrowing hollow powers), my views will not change.
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Old 2006-01-29, 22:28   Link #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
It is generally the case that you have some potential (or let's say dormant power) and with training you try to reach that potential or increase the amount of power that you can use. This potential also represents the limit that you can reach.

Ichigo was trained to reach his limit in a very short time. But, still, as a shiginami, he has a single destination. By taking risks, he ran to that destination as fast as he can. He had talent for that. It may not be the same for any other Shinigami. But, still, there should be a single destination for any shinigami. You should not select another destination once you reach your initial destination.

Bleach, for me, at this time, is not DBZish. Unless those shinigamis go and increase their power level significantly by continuing to stay as a shinigami (no borrowing hollow powers), my views will not change.
Ichigo isn't a normal Shinigami though. Don't forget his Hollow side...
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Old 2006-01-29, 22:36   Link #40
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer
Ichigo isn't a normal Shinigami though. Don't forget his Hollow side...
Yep, that's why I said, as a Shinigami (not as hollow-shinigami hybrid). Even as a Shinigami I don't think he has reached his limit yet. He didn't have enough time to train in detail. And I believe he still has a lot of things to learn regarding his zanpaktou.
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