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Old 2007-06-08, 23:39   Link #1
saesao
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Question Mirage of blaze

Hi, i need to ask some questions about this anime...
1) Does Lord Kagetora actually love NAOE?
2) TAKAYA is most of the time Lord Kagetora right? or all the time?
3) What has NAOE done wrongly in the past? did he hurt a lady called minako because she is related to Lord Kagetora?


thank you
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Old 2007-06-14, 15:36   Link #2
carmolita
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1) he loves him but as a close dear friend -naoe is his safe place that he doesn't want to loose... naoe is in love w/kagetera...

2)they are one in the same the real takaya (soul) is gone> forced out by kagetera(when he possesed takayas' body). Therefore kagetera and takaya are one in the same, but takaya doesn't remember being kagetera because he sealed off his own memories to forget naoe betrayl but when he was trapped inside the sutsuga mirror they came back.

3)no, he raped mineko, got her pregnant and forced kagetera to posses her body, and he did it because he was in love with kagetera and since he(naoe) couldn't have kagetera- he wanted what kagetera loved most which was mineko (kagetera girlfriend). kagetera discovered this when naoe forced his spirt to posses mineko the woman he loved which ended up killing her..
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Old 2007-06-14, 21:41   Link #3
saesao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carmolita View Post
1) he loves him but as a close dear friend -naoe is his safe place that he doesn't want to loose... naoe is in love w/kagetera...

2)they are one in the same the real takaya (soul) is gone> forced out by kagetera(when he possesed takayas' body). Therefore kagetera and takaya are one in the same, but takaya doesn't remember being kagetera because he sealed off his own memories to forget naoe betrayl but when he was trapped inside the sutsuga mirror they came back.

3)no, he raped mineko, got her pregnant and forced kagetera to posses her body, and he did it because he was in love with kagetera and since he(naoe) couldn't have kagetera- he wanted what kagetera loved most which was mineko (kagetera girlfriend). kagetera discovered this when naoe forced his spirt to posses mineko the woman he loved which ended up killing her..


Thank you very much....what do you mean by "kagetera discovered this when naoe forced his spirt to posses mineko the woman he loved which ended up killing her.." ?


1) Naoe rape her before her body was taken over by Kagetora right?
2) When Naoe talked to kagetora's soul. Why did Naoe said that he forced Kagetora to commit suicide?
3) What happen after Kagetora possessed Minako's body?


sorry for asking so much...i can't find the novel...


thanks
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Old 2007-06-15, 04:20   Link #4
carmolita
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Kagetera didn't know what naoe did until he possesed mineko body.

1) yes
2) in kagetera real life their was a battle with his brother (lord kenshin son) for succession. Naoe was on kagetera brother side. Kagetera lost and they burned the castle to the ground. Kagetera was inside the castle and committed sepaku/suicide with the sword.

3) mineko died as a result of the possesion, while in her body kagetera found out all naoe did to mineko and said he will never forgive him for all eternity . Then he possead another body and sealed of his memories , so that he wouldn't remember naoe betryal:
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Old 2007-06-15, 04:30   Link #5
saesao
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1) Naoe was summoned by lord kenshin to protect Kagetora?

2) so Kagetora has only been in Minako's body for a while?

3) How did Naoe fell in love with Kagetora? Did he tell him/show before kagetora became Takaya?

sorry...
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Old 2007-06-15, 11:11   Link #6
carmolita
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1) kagetera is the lord of the uesegi army of the feudal underworld and lord kenshin orderd naoe to serve and protect kagetera (after they all died)..so he wasn't really summond he was always there, so far naoe has served him(kagetera) for 400 years...

2)yes... and after that happend he wanted nothing more to do w/naoe ...which is why naoe was so happy when kagetera didn't remember what he had done.. if naoe hadn't forced kagetera to posses mineko body he would of died so he had no choice, but in doing so naoe sealed his fate/ jepordized his relationship with kagetera..

3) naoe had been protecting kagetera and serving him for 400 years so i guess it just kind of grew through that and loyalty ..but kagetera doesn't feel that way toward naoe..i think a big part of it is because when the hojo clan sent him(kagetera) to the takeda clan as a hostage he was raped violently by men.

no, because kagetera thought naoe loved mineko and naoe confessed that he loved him not mineko. naoe tried to kiss him in the hotel room and then confessed his feelings over kagetera dying body...In mirage a blaze rebels of the riveredge. the sequal..naoe tries to take it a step further by forcing himself on kagetera/takaya and then finds out about the rape..at the end kagetera tells naoe, "if you can beat me i may let you have me but if you run away again your nothing but a losser." so he still detest naoe for what he has done but doesn't want to lose him because he is his safe place...which i think has a lot to do w/what kagetera has been through before he regained his memories..

it's ok I don't mind - I actually like this anime - a lot of emotion in it

Last edited by carmolita; 2007-06-15 at 21:03.
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Old 2007-06-17, 22:40   Link #7
saesao
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I like this story too..when watching the anime there's a part where Takaya was very upset after Naoe tried to kiss him...

Does he treat Naoe as a father instead? which is why he is upset when he doesn't know what Naoe wants from him?


in the anime there is a part where Haruie asked Naoe to be careful when he rushed into a car to to destroy the Tsutsuga mirror and Naoe told her its the it's the end because "he didn't choose to live for him, he didn't choos a blissful death because he didn't wanto to die."

but when Takaya asked why he released him for the mirror, he told takaya that he didn't want Takaya to die...

what do you understand by this?


Who do you like more? Naoe or Kagetora?


Thank you
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Old 2007-06-17, 23:50   Link #8
carmolita
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No I don't think he wants naoe to be a father figure. Naoe tried to kiss takaya because he relized he was getting his memories back and thought he might as well show him how he feels. Naoe feels bound to kagetera because he has to protect him and isn't allowed anything else . He is his vassel . Kagetera doesn't want to loose naoe because he fears being abandond and everytime noae tries to get physical he feels betrayed and that upsets naoe *(he doesn't feel kagetera understands him) In the sequal naoe tells takaya. " All the hurtful things you say to me is what makes a conquest possible but yet you won't release me from these chains I love you". And then he goes on to say to kagetera " maybe I should make you posses the body of a woman so that I can show you just how much a masticast you really are". And then takaya says I don't have time for any of your role playing fantasies". Naoe feels that takaya won't know how he feels unless he becomes physical with him somehow.

As far as the tsetsuga mirror if naoe hadn't found the male mirror I think he would of committed there souls to it . There is no way hed live w/o takaya . But given the choice I don't think he wanted to betray takaya again he also told takaya in the boat- he gave in to his selfish desires. I like naoe because he is honest, straightforward and cute. Takaya is still confused about himself from sealing off his memories. But he gets a backbone in the sequal...
Have you seen the sequal? (its an OVA) do you know who izzuro is suppose to represent?
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Old 2007-06-18, 04:08   Link #9
saesao
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I have seen the OVA but dont really understand it...
i dont know who yuzuru represents....he is handsome and nice

Because after the hotel incident when Naoe tried to kiss him, he became very confused and sad...at the end he also say sth like "If i am Kagetora, do i have the right to think of you?" so to me it seems that the love he has for Naoe seems to be comparable to Naoe's feeling towards him...

What else do you know a bout Minako?

i read some translation form this site:
http://community.livejournal.com/mir...ze/104714.html

it seems to be different from the OVAs and the TV series. Did he really say that he will allow him to have him if he is more outstanding?



There is a cute part where Takaya placed his hand on Naoe while directing him on the direction...and When Naoe looked at his hand, he quickly removed it haha.
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Old 2007-06-19, 21:04   Link #10
Grifis
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This site has good info on the manga:
http://www.aestheticism.com/visitors...rage/index.htm

(from the site) And so finally this happened:
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-06-19, 21:42   Link #11
carmolita
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Thank you for the link!!! She translated the parts of the book that have relevance and wasn't in the anime. I enjoyed reading them very much!

No, kagetera told naoe that he can have him if he could beat him.

I still think that takaya loves naoe but doesn't want to be with him sexualy as a man nor does he want to become a woman. Naoe makes reference to this many times in the anime and from what I read of the translations so far, the novel as well...naoe takes advantage of takaya many times..from what I've read even when he is sleeping or unconscience he forces himself on takaya ... However , I do think if takaya wasn't raped and maybe was born a woman or even if naoe was more gentle he would probably go for it because he loves naoe that much but is afraid to admit it(except when naoe dies) . But he even has trouble getting over the thought of Haruie being in a womans body as a man.. Takaya has also been abandond so many times by his biological father that its consumed him, so he feels that he can't live w/o naoe and everytime naoe leaves he hates him. But naoe is very selfish and only thinks of himself and what he wants. Kagetera is just needy...he's like a child..
I don't know much about mineko. Except it happend 30years ago and kagetera sent her away with naoe to the cabin( for either protection or to test him) because he was in a battle with oda which all but killed him. And then naoe betrayed him by raping and getting her pregnant and then killing her w/kagetera soul. Then kagetera sealed away all his memories and disappeard because of it. If I find translation with more info I wil tell you more:

The ova explains a lot but it is mostly about Haruie.

Last edited by carmolita; 2007-06-21 at 12:44.
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Old 2007-06-20, 01:37   Link #12
saesao
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I also enjoyed reading them as they only tranlate the part about their relationship ha ha

another good website on the translation :
http://www.asphodelshaven.com/transl...x.php?s=novels

translation of the Drama CD:
http://www.savefile.com/projects/442224

Do you know why Naoe die and later came alive?
It must be hard on Takaya...to have to go through so many things...


When did you start watching the anime?

thank you for your reply
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Old 2007-06-20, 01:46   Link #13
saesao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifis View Post
This site has good info on the manga:
http://www.aestheticism.com/visitors...rage/index.htm

(from the site) And so finally this happened:
Spoiler:
Hi, the website is great! thank you! I just read it
But where did you get the 'spoiler'??
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Old 2007-06-20, 18:24   Link #14
Grifis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saesao View Post
Hi, the website is great! thank you! I just read it
But where did you get the 'spoiler'??
It's right on that site. They gave info on characters then summaries on the novels. It's in the summary of vol 20 or something. Needless to say it's the event that fans have been waiting for.
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Old 2007-06-21, 12:43   Link #15
carmolita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saesao View Post
I also enjoyed reading them as they only tranlate the part about their relationship ha ha

another good website on the translation :
http://www.asphodelshaven.com/transl...x.php?s=novels

translation of the Drama CD:
http://www.savefile.com/projects/442224

Do you know why Naoe die and later came alive?
It must be hard on Takaya...to have to go through so many things...


When did you start watching the anime?

thank you for your reply




naoe died protecting takaya..he was shot through the heart w/a gun, and then takaya while holding him lost control of his power through dispair and burned naoe body to a crisp and then later lord kenshin brought naoe body and soul back to life.

*before takaya lost control of his power he told noae that he loved him*

i watched it a long time ago but bought the box set last year from suncoast for 22 dollars and the ova for half price
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Old 2007-06-21, 12:47   Link #16
carmolita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifis View Post
This site has good info on the manga:
http://www.aestheticism.com/visitors...rage/index.htm

(from the site) And so finally this happened:
Spoiler:
i wonder if takaya would have slept w/naoe if he wasn't dying???

either way great spoiler
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Old 2007-06-22, 00:55   Link #17
saesao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carmolita View Post
naoe died protecting takaya..he was shot through the heart w/a gun, and then takaya while holding him lost control of his power through dispair and burned naoe body to a crisp and then later lord kenshin brought naoe body and soul back to life.

*before takaya lost control of his power he told noae that he loved him*

i watched it a long time ago but bought the box set last year from suncoast for 22 dollars and the ova for half price
The part where Naoe died protecting Takaya..was not in the OVAs and TV version right? Did you read it from the novel?
do you remember which volume and chapter it is?

thank you
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Old 2007-06-22, 01:08   Link #18
carmolita
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Right..
The shooting takes place after anime.. Iits in book 18/19 I have to look it up then ill post it for you...
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Old 2007-06-24, 06:28   Link #19
saesao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carmolita View Post
Right..
The shooting takes place after anime.. Iits in book 18/19 I have to look it up then ill post it for you...
Hi sorry, i found the translation AFTER NAOE was shot...Chapter 12 vol 12. Before he was shot is in Chapter 12 Vol 11 but there only post vol 12...can you briefly tell me who wanted to shoot Kagetora?

thank you...and sorry for asking you quesitons again
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