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Old 2007-06-21, 12:29   Link #41
Pendevous
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Yeah, I hated how Rin took Kaede for granted, driving her to insanity. He could've at least became more considerate.
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Old 2007-06-21, 17:19   Link #42
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Kaede was crazy to begin with. Rin had little to do with it, aside from his presence and the "cause" of her insanity.

<3 Kaede, but damn is she psycho. I crapped my pants when she turned to Primula and went "I'm happy if Rin's happy."

I KNEW she was going to say it, and I KNEW she had the crazy eyes.
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Old 2007-06-30, 00:38   Link #43
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Kaede is NOT psycho to begin with... She is a normal girl when she was young... She became traumatized because of tragedies in her life... and here comes Rin to "save" her by saying he is at fault...then the psycho loli came to life...(because of Rin's saving effort) then by keeping it secret until the truth came out... of course kaede is weak to begin with ... those sins can't be forgotten and for some people it's unforgivable... making your life with a psycho everyday... but who made her like that anyway... It's his choice that made her like that..to "save" her sanity....
Then when kaede made her sanity back...she choose to live only to serve rin because she owes her life to him and to atone her past sins...
The point here is the present where.... Rin didn't consider her feelings in that episodes.... and in whatever way or perspective, it's really really an abuse of feelings... And the what's really really unbelievable about Rin is..... he didn't even see the changes in Kaede's eyes... body.... He never saw the obvious suffering of Kaede until Kaede broke down....
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Old 2007-06-30, 10:08   Link #44
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Oh I'm getting into the arguement again.

Kaede, to me, is nuttier than a fruit cake. I think she's a great character and love her, but she barely passes for sane.

I'm assuming by the way you describe how he "helped" her when they were young, that he was in the wrong. Well what do you expect him to do? She was practically comatose not from any debilitating illness or disease, she just refused to live and she would have died if something wasn't done. Being alive and hating someone is still being alive. Don't forget, Rin lost BOTH of his parents and Kaede was acting worse than a child. It was either having her alive and hating him for the rest of his life, or her dying and Rin being completely alone.

Rin had it figured out that Kaede would, for the rest of her life, be under the impression that it was his fault their parents got into the car accident. Truly, it was no one's fault as accidents happen like this all the time. It was a complete accident that Kaede found the postcard stating that they were returning to see Kaede (who was ill at the time). Again, Kaede flips out and instead of rationalizing it and everything that happened, she figures the only way to atone for her sins is to kill herself. It was a damn stroke of luck that Rin found her and saved her from jumping off the bridge.

While I will give that Rin did act irrational in letting Kaede become obsessed with him (you knew from the VERY FIRST EPISODE that she was obsessed with him past normal standards), and he was slow in dealing with her obsessed behavior which probably caused more hurt than what it should have, Rin, for a child, did the right thing by sacrificing his well-being to keep Kaede alive. He had no idea that she would find the truth and dedicate her life to serving him (something he wanted LESS than her hating him).

I'm half-kidding when I say Kaede is psychotic. But come on...you took one look at her crazy eyes and you got to be thinking "she has f'ing FLIPPED!" I felt sorry for her than Rin didn't love her, and I was kind of peeved that Rin didn't act faster but I can't fault Rin for wanting to be with the person he loved. Asa, in my opinion, was a better choice for him than Kaede.
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Old 2007-06-30, 10:53   Link #45
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Kaede lost from the very start.. as Rin never considered her feelings as romantic.. can you deny that Rin didn't abuse Kaede? Facts are in there... Im not arguing about who Rin chooses.... It's just Rin is abusive...
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Old 2007-06-30, 12:39   Link #46
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Abuse is a strong word. Abuse indicates that he purposefully used and manipulated her with no concern to her own feelings. He was ignorant no doubt about that, as he tried to play off all that was going around him as a "phase" and didn't act until it was late (not too late mind you) into the game, but Rin loved Kaede as a sister which brings up my response to "Rin never considered her feelings as romantic."

He stated to both Asa and Kaede herself that he knew what she felt towards him, but he also said that he was foolish into thinking that things would just go away by themselves. He acted late and probably cause Kaede more harm than what should have, but he never once in my opinion "abused" her for his personal gain because he did love Kaede like a sister, which is why the two never had a chance romantically.
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Old 2007-06-30, 13:35   Link #47
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I have to agree with Meiaminkbell here. I admit I was pretty pissed at Rin for a while when ep 18-19 happened but yeah. Rin loved Kaede like a sister more or less, not like he was abusing her on purpose. More or less, I call it that Rin neglected how she really felt in terms of romance but didn't exactly mess around with her feelings on purpose or anything low.
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Old 2007-07-02, 21:43   Link #48
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Is it bad to be dissapointed that Shuffle! ended without some kind of murder/suicide? With Kaedeīs twitching eyes in ep20 it was pretty clear that someone would end with their brains splattered against a wall. I mean, what did we just missed here? Can you really imagine if the show actually ended like that? People would still be talking about it today. "Alright, it was pretty inane and lovely for the most part, right? But when they finally got to the girl with the ribbon - God, that was awesome."

Letīs say youīre watching the arc right now. Itīs creepy, then it gets really creepy - now itīs just depressing - and then out of nowhere LOVING MURDER/SUICIDE. Ok, not from nowhere because you could see it coming a mile away - which is the the best part, actually. īWhat was all that?ī you might ask. Just the best loving harem anime ever.


"Stabbed to death by boxcutter... Thatīs... Thatīs just nasty."
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Old 2007-07-02, 21:49   Link #49
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Kaede was a psyho. I would have held a grudge against her since the box cutter incident.
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Old 2007-07-03, 08:44   Link #50
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then if it ended in higurashi type...then it's not a harem show at all... still Rin's actions are like master ordering towards kaede ( though it's Kaede's choice as a repentance for her sins)... that's why the already messed up mind of kaede became worse... And why having a grudge on a psycho? She haven't killed anyone... well if you want you'll be the first.... hehehe joke..... I think Rin still abused kaede...like being a master to a servant... In all these years, he should have help kaede in chores, he became spoiled and all... and then he never even notice the physical change of kaede in those scenes at all, I mean even primula noticed that and even us notice that as yandere...but still it's sad not creepy at all... just a sad moment
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Old 2007-07-10, 08:55   Link #51
teachopvutru
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I also agree that Rin abuses Kaede, even if it's unintentional. At the very least, that's not something to hate Rin for, however. @rave_master16: not saying you hate him, just saying that not all people who think Rin abuses Kaede hates him.
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Old 2007-07-10, 08:58   Link #52
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meh, i was hoping for some more explicit kind of abuses
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Old 2007-07-12, 13:41   Link #53
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I stand firm that Rin didn't abuse her. "Neglect" is even too strong a word I feel, as he still loved and cared for Kaede. What he did was pretend that nothing was wrong until the very end, and I would chalk up his attitude towards her as "ignorance."

If you remember, whenever ANYONE tried to help Kaede with the housework, she would cower and fear that her "positon" in Rin's life was being invaded. Now there's no way to tell if he ever attempted to help her, but I have a strong feeling that Kaede never ALLOWED him to help with the work. She was adamant that, if she couldn't live for him, she woiuld have no reason to live. And Rin never wanted her to live for him, she just wanted her to live, but was ignorant on the kind of living she was doing.

Again, this it my opinion. I think everyone just busts Rin's balls too much because he didn't treat the "nee-chan moe" properly. I personally love his character, although it's a bit too perfect.
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Old 2007-07-13, 09:18   Link #54
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Already said that, kaede will never allow Rin to work... but his ignorance lead kaede to this I mean he already knows kaede's weak personality... Why did he let her do this for many years, if he knew this would hurt her again..? He should have clear things up to kaede about himself and Asa... and what really hurts many of us, is the ignorance of Rin in an episode where Kaede talking to him in almost weak state( and Rin NEVER noticed her eyes and never appreciated of like staying up late which is quite obvious) and then ask for a favor...then suddenly a telephone rang... then Rin suddenly forgot the favor... don't know the episode and scenes.. (Im trying to forget it but it's still in my broken mind) What really amazed me is after many years that kaede's doing this...working, Rin, in my point of view, never treated her as a romantic interest... Maybe because of all the past events... He thinks its all for atonement...which is made Kaede confuse for she fall in love on him...which is obvious in the school , to everyone...even to Asa....

Rin isn't a perfect character I know, but in considering other's feelings his still an amatuer... I don't know why he didn't tell the others about his feelings about Asa first and just go straight making relationship with her while the other girls (well Sia and Nerine knew it) except Kaede which caught her off guard... Well please tell me the reason... My depression is returning...
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Old 2007-07-13, 09:47   Link #55
Meiaminkbell
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I'm willing to accept that Rin was ignorant of her desperate acts of attention and I really don't have any reasonable explanations for it, other thanhe was possibly scared of how she would take it. He acted slow and could have done many things that could have prevented or lessened her psychotic episode(s), but that doesn't mean he didn't care about her. One poor act doesn't overshadow the countless other good times they had growing up.

You say that he should have told her about Asa, but don't you think that, like Rin's ignorance, Kaede was also oblivious to the obviously blossoming love between the two. Kaede didn't think so much that they were in love, but she thought that Asa was taking him away from her, and it wasn't until after he left that she realized what she was doing was hurting not only him but her friends and herself as well. Rin can't be there to hold her hand every time something bad happens in her life, and on that note, I reiterate that, if he didn't allow her to do those chores for him growing up, she would have stopped living which was the last thing he wanted her to do.

But what got me from what you said was he never considered her as a romantic interest. Are you in love with all your friends? Could you imagine developins a relationship with every single friend you have? it's not possible for him to consider getting romantically involved with her, because he's not interested in her that way! There is no other reason he needs than "I do not love her that way".

Personally, I feel he doesn't HAVE to tell the girls he's in loe with Asa. I think he has a responsibility (which he fulfilled) that if one of the girls asks him if he loves her, to tell them he doesn't. Kaede never asked him if he loved her. Nerine and Sia did, and much to my dissatisfaction, turned them down, but Kaede never attempted to inquiry about his feelings, she wanted to be his only and at a point was willing to do anything to be that.

Kaede herself was blind to their relationship despite the signs. Kaede wanted to believe that the two of them would grow old together, and when she realized he didn't feel the same way about her, she freaked out. What Rin did, being ignorant to her feelings, was wrong, but Kaede cannot be pardoned simply because she has a weak personality. She was being selfish and refused to think about anyone but herself until the end. Everything she did for Rin, she really did to please herself. When Rin didn't want those, she fell to pieces. I feel he's not obligated to eat every dinner she make, he's not obligated to spend time with her, and certainly he should be allowed to spend as much time with the woman he does love, as much as possible. I'm not condoning his attitude towards Kaede but Kaede herself was also at fault.
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Old 2007-07-16, 08:45   Link #56
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Im not saying Kaede's not at fault but since you already accept that Rin is at fault then that's fine... Everyone in the series are at fault in some way that in a relationship, a competition for love will leave tears and sadness... what I can't accept is Rin's actions on that 'episodes'...but this argument will go on the circles... and one last thing... Kaede did in the last episode of her arc is not SELFISHNESS....
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Old 2007-07-16, 09:31   Link #57
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I dunno, asking your friend's girlfriend if you can still love him seems pretty selfish to me. But I love Kaede, she's a great character and I honestly have no problems with her. our differences lie in the degree of fault Rin is at, and from my time here, it seems I am in a vast minority siding with Rin on this. You're allowed your opinions, I can't force you to change them
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Old 2007-07-21, 16:37   Link #58
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I completely agree with Meiaminkbell. Rin didn't do anything intentionally to harm Kaede and he certainly didn't abuse her. To go through what he went through as a child, losing both of his parents and still protecting Kaede from the truth and for her to abuse him.

The way she obsessively did everything for him was dealt with early in the series where Rin was telling her to relax more and not to worry about it so much but it didn't really happen. She said she'd try and it didn't work, its not like its the way Rin wanted it to happen, its like she had to do it. It was her reason to live because Rin had saved her life.

In the end Rin did the right thing and left although it is a bit harsh on him, having to leave what is as much his home as it is hers. He did this though to try break Kaede out of her obsessive behaviour and by the looks of things at thend, she hasn't really changed. By doing the right thing though, it tipped her further over the edge, it is unfair for him to carry on living in Kaede's perfect world.

To be honest I can't see how people can fault Rin in this when all he tried to do is what is best by Kaede
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Old 2007-08-02, 15:21   Link #59
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Wasn't it explained somewhere why Rin couldn't do much about it?

In the 1st episode or something(So long ago) Rin told her to stop doing too much but then she breaks down.

Techincally speaking, he's afraid to voice his concerns which may lead her back to her suicidal state(or something like that)
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Old 2007-08-03, 16:01   Link #60
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Kaede said it herself, Rin only cares about people if they're suffering - If there's already one of his friends that's suffering and another one comes along Rin will naturally pick the first one.

Asa gets sick - Rin cares about her now.
Kaede becomes insane because Rin no longer pays attention to any of the things she does for him.
Rin still only cares about Asa and basically ignores Kaede still.
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