AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > My HiME / My Otome

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2006-02-09, 15:30   Link #1
Catgirls
I am mowing clowns
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
My-Otome Plot Holes (Real or Imagined)

Welcome to the My-Otome Plot Hole (Real or Imagined) discussion thread.

The primary focus of this thread is openly discuss parts of the My-Otome plot (or total lack of) that you feel are incongruous with reality, good writing or just plain old common sense. This thread is to pick up the discussion that enveloped and obliterated the end portion of the Episode 17.

This thread isn’t an open invitation to flame or insult forum members. It’s a thread to extrapolate beyond the confines of the Episode threads without dragging everyone down and rendering the episode threads useless with pedantic technicalities. If you’d like to seriously table or debate the script writing in My-Otome and can do so in a civil manner, then this is the thread for you. I will, however, delete any personal insults or useless “retort” posts.

If you’d like to pick up where you left off in the Episode 17 thread, feel free. I’d move over a bunch of posts, but that would knock down this post. I will move any plot hole complaining out of future episode threads (18 and on) and into here. Use the episode threads to give you general overall thoughts on the episode and use this thread to detail your plot grievances.

If you have any questions for me about this thread, don’t post it here…send me a PM instead. Cheers.

Last edited by Catgirls; 2006-02-09 at 16:14. Reason: Removed the part about the horse head.
Catgirls is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 17:32   Link #2
Tempest35
Awe of She
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
Okay, I guess I'll start by listing 'supposed plotholes'...but not my opinions on them - yet. I suggest that we get all the plotholes out in the open and then we take a different topic each week and debate that one for the week - then it's on to the next one. I'll list the most recent ones first but we don't have to debate those - we already have and I bet we really don't want to rehash all of that again. ^^;

- Nina enraged and offing Erstin (EP 17)
- Construction of massive gun tower without Mashiro's knowledge. (EP 17)
- Lack of Otome response to the Gun Tower (EP 17)

- Erstin's lack of response to the GEM vial incident ( EP 16)
- Lack on Chie's part to bring Tomoe to justice

Overall Plot 'highlights':
- The extent of Nina's 'devotion' to Sergay
- Nagi's true plans concerning Schawrtz
- Fumi - Dead or Alive?
- Same goes for Mai
- Sergay's seeming invincibility. ^^
- WHY is Miss Maria still at Garderobe...
Tempest35 is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 17:43   Link #3
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Add to highlights,

Why Nagi is keeping Sergay alive even though he betrayed him

Harmonium's capabilities
SoldierOfDarkness is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 18:05   Link #4
Tremalkinger
Hai, Nao-oneesama!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Okay... I admittedly haven't read through much of the Episode 17 thread, but none of those potential plot holes seem to be... well... plotholes.

Nina didn't 'off' Erstin... she was enraged at Arika. She realized Sergey had been supporting Arika all this time, and all the repressed feelings of dislike towards Arika resurfaced. Erstin saved Arika's life (or perhaps, more accurately, she sacrificed her own in an attempt to escape a no win situation). In any event, I'm really hard pressed to see how anyone could interpret the events as Nina intentionally killing Erstin.

Erstin's lack of response to the vial attack was discussed pretty heavily back in the Episode 16 thread. We still don't know exactly where Tomoe stands, and whether Erstin and Tomoe had any interactions. It's not clear cut exactly why, but if you consider 'unknowns' to be plot holes, then you shouldn't be watching this series. That's where a majority of the enjoyment comes from the series for me... trying to figure things like this out. I'd imagine it will be explained.

As far as building a weapon on the tower... wasn't it stated that Schwartz heavily infiltrated the construction crews who were working on the tower? Why is this implausable? Presumably the construction was hidden by holograms the entire time. No matter how long it took to build the Rena Device, so long as any Mashiro-loyal workers never find it, they're fine. And we know how loyal the denizins of Windbloom are to Mashiro.

... this has probably all been discussed to death, but its a new thread, and the current one and all the discussion will sink to the bottom, so nya.
Tremalkinger is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 18:28   Link #5
Matrim
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
As far as building a weapon on the tower... wasn't it stated that Schwartz heavily infiltrated the construction crews who were working on the tower? Why is this implausable? Presumably the construction was hidden by holograms the entire time. No matter how long it took to build the Rena Device, so long as any Mashiro-loyal workers never find it, they're fine. And we know how loyal the denizins of Windbloom are to Mashiro.
Well, there is a difference between being not loyal to Mashiro and not reporting a huge cannon just because of the above mentioned fact. It's not as if the cannon had a "The weapon that will overthrow the idiotic Queen" written on it. From what I have seen not many people support Schwatrz so I find the fact that no one found out about the cannon's existence earlier difficult to believe. And the otomes not destroying this cannon after the first shot is also difficult to understand, it really made them look like total morons, something that some of them should be used to but still..

And I hope Sergey turns out to be an android, a human full of nano-machines or something like that because if he is just an average guy his supernatural abilities to survive in any situation seem a bit far-fetched. Not to mention that he seems to have been loved by half of the female characters at one point or another.
Matrim is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 19:05   Link #6
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
Well, there is a difference between being not loyal to Mashiro and not reporting a huge cannon just because of the above mentioned fact. It's not as if the cannon had a "The weapon that will overthrow the idiotic Queen" written on it.
Actually, let's say you and I were working on the tower (All bias aside), would that have looked like a cannon in the first place? When it was revealed, sure it looked butt ugly, but first impressions nobody thought it was a cannon. Heck it doesn't even look like a cannon.

That and it's obvious that in order to do such a construction the higher order officials would have to be Schwarz in order to make it happen which is probably what that Bask guy is.

Quote:
From what I have seen not many people support Schwatrz so I find the fact that no one found out about the cannon's existence earlier difficult to believe.
More like the opposite, not many people like Mashiro to begin with.

Quote:
And the otomes not destroying this cannon after the first shot is also difficult to understand, it really made them look like total morons, something that some of them should be used to but still..
Let's summarize what happened,

Shot fired, tons of SLAVEs appear
Natsuki begs Mashiro to allow them to intervene, Mashiro, still dumbfounded.
Natsuki quickily releases the safety on all Otomes and orders them to evac the civilians.
Nina grabs Sergay, Arika jumps for Mashiro and at that point in time the cannon fires.
When Mashiro comes to Arika tells her they just barely made it out in time.

So during that inactivity time Natsuki and co. were already moving quickly to get everyone out of the stadium.

Back at school, everyone has regrouped and Natsuki declares an emergency and begins to counterattack and that's when Aswald shows up.

Quote:
And I hope Sergey turns out to be an android, a human full of nano-machines or something like that because if he is just an average guy his supernatural abilities to survive in any situation seem a bit far-fetched. Not to mention that he seems to have been loved by half of the female characters at one point or another.
Nanomachines with some scent that attracts any women within his grasp
SoldierOfDarkness is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 19:12   Link #7
ArchDragon
The Ultimate Monster
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
Well, there is a difference between being not loyal to Mashiro and not reporting a huge cannon just because of the above mentioned fact. It's not as if the cannon had a "The weapon that will overthrow the idiotic Queen" written on it. From what I have seen not many people support Schwatrz so I find the fact that no one found out about the cannon's existence earlier difficult to believe. And the otomes not destroying this cannon after the first shot is also difficult to understand, it really made them look like total morons, something that some of them should be used to but still..
Be aware that most people in Windbloom are technology illiterate.
And that the cannon itself doesn't look like a conventional cannon.
The builders probably thought it was just some kind of a fancy decoration.

After it was unveiled, only Sergay recognized it as a weapon.
Even Natsuki cs. had no clue what the damned thing is.

Only after it fired that everyone started to recognize it for what it is.

As for Natsuki cs. acting like fools, I'm sure others have explained it.

Quote:
And I hope Sergey turns out to be an android, a human full of nano-machines or something like that because if he is just an average guy his supernatural abilities to survive in any situation seem a bit far-fetched. Not to mention that he seems to have been loved by half of the female characters at one point or another.
My guess is that he will eventually be revealed as the Black Power's vessel, much like Reito in MH.

But then again, Yuuichi in MH exchanged who knows how many blows with the OL.
Even though the most defensive HiME, Mai, barely survived a single blow from the OL.
ArchDragon is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 19:52   Link #8
Iron Maw
Devil Buster
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness
Actually, let's say you and I were working on the tower (All bias aside), would that have looked like a cannon in the first place? When it was revealed, sure it looked butt ugly, but first impressions nobody thought it was a cannon. Heck it doesn't even look like a cannon.

That and it's obvious that in order to do such a construction the higher order officials would have to be Schwarz in order to make it happen which is probably what that Bask guy is.

To add to this in Episode 16/15/ there was a mysterious large black clothed object being smuggled into the construction site and you could see in the same scene that the guards let it in.
Iron Maw is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 20:11   Link #9
Matrim
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
So during that inactivity time Natsuki and co. were already moving quickly to get everyone out of the stadium.
That's exactly the problem. Why evacuate when you can destroy the threat? And even if the evacuation is the priority they could spare one or two Otomes to crush the cannon, right? If they can annihilate whole armies, a mere cannon should not be a problem, even as huge as it was. But, no, no one even tried that. The only explanation would be that the treaty forbids them to attack even when threatened and being under attack but that would be one hell of a stupid treaty.

Quote:
And that the cannon itself doesn't look like a conventional cannon.
The builders probably thought it was just some kind of a fancy decoration.

After it was unveiled, only Sergay recognized it as a weapon.
Even Natsuki cs. had no clue what the damned thing is.
Good point, I had forgotten about that. But still it was a bit too easy convenient for Schwarz to pull this off.
Matrim is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 21:13   Link #10
Eclipze
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
That's exactly the problem. Why evacuate when you can destroy the threat? And even if the evacuation is the priority they could spare one or two Otomes to crush the cannon, right? If they can annihilate whole armies, a mere cannon should not be a problem, even as huge as it was. But, no, no one even tried that. The only explanation would be that the treaty forbids them to attack even when threatened and being under attack but that would be one hell of a stupid treaty.
Well...

- There was completely no information regarding the cannon, meaning that it might have defence capabilities that even Otomes cant break through.
- And generally it isn't wise to tackle an unknown target, especially when you have other piorities(sp?) to deal with.
- Taking Akane as an example, she was just keeping up with that slave in episode 13(?). Sure, say that she is weak, but I dont think she was number 1 Pearl for nothing.
- After the cannon fired, there was a horde of slaves being launched into the cities.
- These slaves are the new-types that was used at the borders between the 2 countires (forgot the name) that was faster, and more child-like. (as said by Miyu)
- It is highly probable that these new and improved slaves would guard the cannon as well.
- If the so-called *2 Otomes* were to engage the newslaves (those that defend the cannon), they would also have to dodge the cannon. Which, for a pearl, can be a very hard thing to do.

Conclusion, if there was 2 Otomes to engage the cannon:
1) They have to face off against the new slaves that are more child-like (very likely in power, speed and durability).
2) Even while fighting the slaves, they have to dodge the cannon (by logic the cannon would be aiming the 2 Otomes since its self-defence)
3) Even if the 2 Otomes break-through the slaves, theres still the cannon's own defence (which can include stuff like de-materialising abilities, and force-field).
4) This would make destroying the cannon impossible unless a meister or Pillar was sent (and they had piorities in Garderobe to take care of).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
Good point, I had forgotten about that. But still it was a bit too easy convenient for Schwarz to pull this off.
Considering how Schwars was able to countlessly (and effortlessly) infiltrate the WindBloom postal-services and send out countless black letters, I dont see how thats surprising.

Plus, someone already mentioned that Mashiro didnt exactly have alot of loyal followers.
__________________
Eclipze is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 21:27   Link #11
MattAlchemy
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: At home...
Send a message via AIM to MattAlchemy Send a message via MSN to MattAlchemy
I just liked how the double Materializing was from Natsuki and Shizuru but hasn't got a good chance of fighting.

Arika while Materializing in episode17 with the song was okay.

I loved how Nina said"Materialize!" in an evil way, and her song, sounded like a game at an ending.

It's good to see Tomoe actually wasn't a bad person in episode17 and did not bother them, except helping, that made me happy.
__________________
MattAlchemy is offline  
Old 2006-02-09, 22:41   Link #12
imperialmog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Missouri
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to imperialmog Send a message via Yahoo to imperialmog
My big question is what is this "spirit of the forest" that they said Mai went to see? It has only been mentioned once and never said again?
imperialmog is offline  
Old 2006-02-10, 00:44   Link #13
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by imperialmog
My big question is what is this "spirit of the forest" that they said Mai went to see? It has only been mentioned once and never said again?
It's some forest out in the backyards of Garderobe and for some strange reason she got lost there and no one bothered to organize a search party for her.

No I'm just kidding.

But seriously, I'm more concerned with where it is.

Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2006-02-10 at 00:55.
SoldierOfDarkness is offline  
Old 2006-02-10, 02:52   Link #14
phaerax
Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: athens
Age: 30
the only thing i noticed in ep17 which i cant explain no matter how hard i try is why didnt mashiro take damage when arika was hit by erstin's slave?
you could say that the super-gems like the Blue Sky Saphire and the Ultimate Black Diamond protect the master from damage taken by the Otome but... in the Harmonium incident we clearly saw that Mashiro WAS hurt when Arika took a hit.
you could say that they didnt want to play Mashiros getting-hurt animation so as not to avert the focus of the scene, but as far as i remember later we see Mashiro perfectly healthy.
...a possible reason? the animators forgot about the master-otome link.
fortunately this is more like a glitch than a plot-hole. i wouldnt like to see such errors in the future though.
phaerax is offline  
Old 2006-02-10, 03:21   Link #15
Iron Maw
Devil Buster
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by phaerax
the only thing i noticed in ep17 which i cant explain no matter how hard i try is why didnt mashiro take damage when arika was hit by erstin's slave?
you could say that the super-gems like the Blue Sky Saphire and the Ultimate Black Diamond protect the master from damage taken by the Otome but... in the Harmonium incident we clearly saw that Mashiro WAS hurt when Arika took a hit.
you could say that they didnt want to play Mashiros getting-hurt animation so as not to avert the focus of the scene, but as far as i remember later we see Mashiro perfectly healthy.
The part that I bolded I think pretty much awnsers your question. Don't forget that Erstin was halfassing her attacks as Smith stated which is why Arika herself was barley hurt by any of them, so Mashiro probably didn'tfeel much damage.

It seems that a Otome's Master only share's the Otome's physical pain when she's in her materalized Robe form. This likely a trade-off for the power boost they get.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2006-02-10 at 06:20.
Iron Maw is offline  
Old 2006-02-10, 05:08   Link #16
-KarumA-
(。☉౪ ⊙。)
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by imperialmog
My big question is what is this "spirit of the forest" that they said Mai went to see? It has only been mentioned once and never said again?
i have a feeling that this rumor was made so that nobody could ever know what happened to Mai

Mai was heartbroken because she chose to become an Otome instead falling in love, it would leave her bitter

i think that she may have left Garderobe, left a note that she was trying to find her true self again, maybe she made an arangement in it that she didnt want to be found, tus the story that she's looking for the spirit of the forest

but she is alive and genki, im sure of it otherwise she wouldnt be in the opening

im just wondering when she will pop up
-KarumA- is offline  
Old 2006-02-10, 05:59   Link #17
Tempest35
Awe of She
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw
The part that I bold I think pretty much awsers your question. Don't forget that Erstin was halfassing her attacks as Smith said which why Arika herself was barley hurt by any of attacks, so Mashiro probably feel much damage.

It seems that a Otome's Master only share's the Otome's physical pain when she's in her materalized Robe form. This likely a trade-off for the power boost they get.
Has to be or else Yukino would have been KO'ing herself when they threw the rock on Haruka's head in ep 18 if they had the link on all the time.
Tempest35 is offline  
Old 2006-02-10, 08:10   Link #18
Pracharat
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Shenzhen, China
I think that the reason why Natsuki did not try to destroy the cannon is because she cannot intervene in conflict between countries. The best think she can do is to evacuate civilian and protect the academy.
Pracharat is offline  
Old 2006-02-10, 09:01   Link #19
Urd
Airborne
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: portugal
Age: 29
just how Natsuki became the Principal for the school? if the pillar's function is to serve Garderobe, where the hell are the others pillars? how didn't anyone searched for Mai? Where the hell spirit Mikoto came from? How did Reito and co. turned into cyborgs??? etc.etc.etc....
__________________
In position... Green light.. GO!
Urd is offline  
Old 2006-02-10, 09:54   Link #20
Matrim
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pracharat
I think that the reason why Natsuki did not try to destroy the cannon is because she cannot intervene in conflict between countries. The best think she can do is to evacuate civilian and protect the academy.
Schwarz is not a country though and the best way to protect the Academy was to destroy the cannon which seemed fully capable of destroying it.

Quote:
- And generally it isn't wise to tackle an unknown target, especially when you have other piorities(sp?) to deal with.
Is it wiser to sit like a sitting duck and wait for the cannon to shoot? For all they knew it might have shot again seconds after the first shot and destroyed the whole arena killing all the Otomes. I guess they have watched Gundam Seed and know that superweapons need a lot of time to recharge their batteries and reload.
Matrim is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.