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Old 2006-02-17, 16:06   Link #41
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coefficient
How Nina and Arika survived going atomic over Erstin. Nina turns up in 18 without so much as a word towards explanation.

Maybe it'll be explained in 19.
Are you saying that Otomes can't handle their own powers?

We've seen Otomes clash with tons of energies around them DBZ style, if they can bring that much power to bear they should be able to handle it.
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Old 2006-02-17, 16:30   Link #42
Seska
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Romulus and Remus (the story write like Italy... Rom)
whas the first with Otome fight in this series. They left an huge energy ball thats still there.... strange.. and both of them survied too.

and for Arika.. well wait for looking ep19 *g

Mfg,
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Old 2006-02-17, 23:05   Link #43
coefficient
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness
Are you saying that Otomes can't handle their own powers?

We've seen Otomes clash with tons of energies around them DBZ style, if they can bring that much power to bear they should be able to handle it.
Arika and Nina are both Meister noobs
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Old 2006-02-18, 11:06   Link #44
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by coefficient
Arika and Nina are both Meister noobs
The only real difference is that their now contracted to a master which means they have to take their job seriously now.

What do you think the training at the school has been for?

That and are you implying that the ROBE can't do jack to protect them?
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Old 2006-02-19, 02:26   Link #45
coefficient
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I'm not "implying" anything. I was just saying that Nina popped out of nowhere without so much as a by-your-leave, as did Arika. Episode 19 explains how Arika was able to survive so this isn't a plot hole anymore, but imo it's an episode late.
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Old 2006-02-19, 03:08   Link #46
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real plot hole:
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-02-19, 16:07   Link #47
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floatingbrain
real plot hole:
Spoiler:
How do you know she didn't suffer ... as I see it Master and Otome share the pain not the injury ... and the pain is equal to that of the otome ... and Arika had her robe on so there wasn't a hole lot of pain ... if they would share pain equal to the blow, then Mashiro wouldn't have survived ep7 (the part when Arika get's hit by the slave)

ohh and ... Arika wasn't all mindless because of the pain ... she was emotionaly scared ... anyway 3 days past before we got to see Mashiro so she had planty of time to recover from the pain

IMO Mashiro had her own pain to worry about
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Old 2006-02-19, 16:59   Link #48
Tempest35
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Heck, one of her best friends died due to another best friend's nearly 'insane' actions - that would put trauma on even the most genki of people no matter what. Nina's use to repressing her emotions but that's gonna burst loose in the next ep. ^_^ She and Sergay are going to have a bad falling out.
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Old 2006-02-24, 14:07   Link #49
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Two things:

Back in the "Birthday" episode, Sergay says that he and Nina met six years ago. But, from the other brief flashbacks we've gotten of child Nina, and the Sergay/Nina meeting scene in episode 20, Nina looks no more than four or five, not nine. What's going on with that? Also, what was Nina in the hospital for so long for?


Secondly, the mention that the Aswald attack took place "concidentally" on the same night that Rena retired. Except that Rena was "retired" the instant that she had sex and became pregnant; she certainly wasn't going to be fighting when she was heavily pregnant. Why didn't Windbloom Kingdom start looking for a new Otome when Rena "retired" the first time? They had about a year to find a new Meister Otome, and yet they didn't bother.

Bad writing in both cases, or something else?
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Old 2006-03-14, 16:08   Link #50
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Question Good Nina, you look kind of... illogical.

Okay, bad 4chan meme. Anyway, I caught this when going back to episode 1, and I'm wondering how Nina can do this hadouken without a robe/3rd party?

Spoiler:

y helo thar plothole!

For the sake of being a cool first episode, something I'm missing, or what?
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Old 2006-03-14, 17:03   Link #51
Tempest35
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Well, Nina's been training since she came under Sergay. Sure, Sergay can't do it, but he doesn't have nano-machines boosting him as well. Not saying that it was Sergay himself training her in combat but she was lightyears ahead of most of the Coral as far as fighting was concerned.

As for the actual 'hadoken'...
Spoiler for Hadoken:


and to Amaiko - I think that's just the way it was translated...I suppose that Sergay didn't really count the time that he saved her when she was a lil tyke. He wanted to get her out of there since she was so small and he took her to a hospital or orphanage then just let that be that. Later on, a few more years down the line, he met her again and since she either kept running away or something else, he adopted her then. I think he's counting from then, rather than from that rather unpleasant first meeting. Nina remebers the first time she ever laid eyes on Sergay but it doesn't show Sergay remembering her that far back. Guys are bad with dates - everyone knows that

and for Windbloom's situation - I think it was procrastination. They're right next door to Garderobe - they probably thought that, hey, we can wait a few more months before we acquire a new Otome. Either they just got lazy (kinda like not replacing a leaky faucet in your house ASAP just because you're down the street from Home Depot - until the thing just messes up in your face), or possibly they were waiting for their Coral/Pearl to graduate first.
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Old 2006-03-14, 17:48   Link #52
Matrim
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Quote:
and for Windbloom's situation - I think it was procrastination. They're right next door to Garderobe - they probably thought that, hey, we can wait a few more months before we acquire a new Otome. Either they just got lazy (kinda like not replacing a leaky faucet in your house ASAP just because you're down the street from Home Depot - until the thing just messes up in your face), or possibly they were waiting for their Coral/Pearl to graduate first.
But Carlteya has at least several Otomes as seen in the last episode. Windbloom is closest to Garderobe and is the leader in technology among the states, yet it had zero Otomes available when Rado and gang attacked. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. The lack of Otomes was practically an invitation to be attacked.
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Old 2006-03-14, 18:06   Link #53
Tempest35
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Yeah but those sucked and were most likely given just REMs instead of GEMS. If those were true Otome, Carlteya is majorly screwed over since most of their entire rulling body is now fairydust.

Windbloom and the other nations are on guard against Schwartz, not Aswald - Aswald doesn't bite unless bitten or bribed. It wasn't Schwartz who infiltrated the castle that night, it was Aswald - Schwartz was just making a huge distraction for them.

Schwartz wanted the Blue Sky Sapphire and apparently, Rena Sayer's body. If I may, consider this, Schwartz had 3/4ths of a year to attack Windboom but they didn't. Rena Sayers was pregnant for 9 months, unable to Materalize but they didn't attack - this was a planned attack, waiting until they were sure that she had given birth. This wasn't an open invitation, it was a planned raid - an invasion.

Keep in mind that even though they had a year or so when Rena announced that she was going to get married and retire, it takes at least TWO years for a Coral to go through Garderobe to graduate as a Meister. It's not as if they can ask the Principle for a 'Temporary Otome' or even ask one of the other countries to loan them one of their girls for a year or so - national pride and all that. Besides, who'd attack Windbloom, which IS so close to Garderobe in the first place? It's like someone trying to attack Canada or Mexico and hoping that the US doesn't get involved.
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Old 2006-03-14, 20:45   Link #54
Tremalkinger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
But Carlteya has at least several Otomes as seen in the last episode. Windbloom is closest to Garderobe and is the leader in technology among the states, yet it had zero Otomes available when Rado and gang attacked. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. The lack of Otomes was practically an invitation to be attacked.
It's obviously a huge liability to be tied to an Otome. While Otome are extremely powerful bodyguards, they do require permission to have their robes activated, and the fact that the Otome and Master are dependant on each other for survival means an assassain has two potential targets instead of just one. Any canny leader planning on using his Otome for war wouldn't want to put his Otome in any danger, lest he die.

The obvious countermeasure to this is to bond the Otome to other people. But we don't see this... instead the most powerful Otome seem to be directly bonded to the leaders of the various countries. The only explanation I can think of for this, is that Garderobe makes it a requirement of the leaders that in order to be able to have any Otome serving their country at all, THEY must be bonded to an Otome, thus sharing the risk. This would be good move on Garderobes part, to try and make the leaders think twice before using their Otome friviolously.

How does this tie back in? If Rena was no longer an Otome, then any other Otome must return back to Garderobe, thus leaving them defenseless. I'd speculate that normally, planned retirements have a small grace period, so that seamless switches can be made, but I believe that Rena's retirement was unplanned, so that fits in as well.

Of course, this is all guesses, but it fits pretty well, I think.
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Old 2006-03-15, 08:05   Link #55
Matrim
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Quote:
Yeah but those sucked and were most likely given just REMs instead of GEMS.
Well, Rado called them Otomes, IIRC and he should know the difference all too well.

Quote:
Keep in mind that even though they had a year or so when Rena announced that she was going to get married and retire, it takes at least TWO years for a Coral to go through Garderobe to graduate as a Meister.
So you say there was not a single Windbllom student among the pearls which would be available for an earlier graduation just like Akane who was supposed to be a made a Meister because some Otome retired? Quite an assumption, if you ask me. I'd rather believe that the Windbloom rulers were complacent and took their time with choosing Rena's successor. Or maybe the Windbloom students at the time were all crazy like Shiho so the King decided to wait for better candidates. Come to think of it, that's a good explanation - if I were a ruler, I would have liked to be able to choose an Otome I could work with, not some immature moron would be more likely to destroy my cities than those of the enemies.
BTW, I may be wrong since I don't really bother with every plot detail but Garderobe is not some kind of peacekeeping force which interferes every time two nations fight. After all, they didn't protect Windbloom in episode 17 and retreated to their territory, why do you think Windbloom would have relied on their help fifteen years ago? Of course, this leads to the question about why the countries which had Otomes didn't just conquer those that did not, since apparently until recently the Otomes were invincible but let's not go there.

Quote:
The only explanation I can think of for this, is that Garderobe makes it a requirement of the leaders that in order to be able to have any Otome serving their country at all, THEY must be bonded to an Otome, thus sharing the risk.
It's not as if any ruler who is not a complete fool would allow someone of his subjects to command this WMD, called an Otome. What's to stop this subject from overthrowing the ruler in question or if the Otome is not cooperative enough for a such plot to take place simply to refuse to activate the Robe because he had been bribed by the enemy? So I don't think it's just Garderobe's policy, more like the rulers also being paranoid.
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Old 2006-03-15, 08:11   Link #56
Eclipze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
Well, Rado called them Otomes, IIRC and he should know the difference all too well.
Well, you've said it yourself: Rado refered to them as "Otomes", not "Meisters" nor "Meister Otomes". Just because you managed to graduate from Guarderobe, does not ensure that you would become a Meister.
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Old 2006-03-15, 08:26   Link #57
Matrim
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I never claimed they were Meisters though. But if there were such Otomes in Windbloom back then one would think that either one of them would have been made a Meister (if that's possible at all) or they would have been shown fighting against Aswad and Shwartz. Not to mention that calling them Otomes does not necessarily mean they were not Meisters.
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Old 2006-03-15, 08:41   Link #58
Eclipze
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I dont see how so many Meisters can exists in a single time period, considering that the Meister/Pillars we've been shown so far have their own unique gems. Shizuru, Natsuki, Fia, Mai, Arika/Rena, Nina. Its not just the gems, they also have their respective "titles".

Now, imagine that all those Otomes at Calteya were Meisters: Wouldn't we had seen more "nuclear proportioned" explosions? Considering how the 2 Meisters clashed in episode...13-14? A simple clash that was enough to cause that much damage. Yet Rado and gang seemed to have such a breeze taking out these so called "Otomes"?

Yet at the same time, wouldnt that defeat the purpose of Guarderobe's "restriction"?
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Old 2006-03-15, 09:28   Link #59
xenoalpha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
I dont see how so many Meisters can exists in a single time period, considering that the Meister/Pillars we've been shown so far have their own unique gems. Shizuru, Natsuki, Fia, Mai, Arika/Rena, Nina. Its not just the gems, they also have their respective "titles".
Why do you think that there are not enough different GEMs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Now, imagine that all those Otomes at Calteya were Meisters: Wouldn't we had seen more "nuclear proportioned" explosions? Considering how the 2 Meisters clashed in episode...13-14? A simple clash that was enough to cause that much damage. Yet Rado and gang seemed to have such a breeze taking out these so called "Otomes"?
The GEMs have varying powers, i think. The most potent one is probably given to the ruler of the country. There are only two types of otomes so far; the Meisters and those depending on Fumi's source. And since Calteya is unlikely to have Galderobe's staff/students then the otomes are most likely Meisters.
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Old 2006-03-15, 10:08   Link #60
KanaKaishou
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I think the distinction to be made is "royal" otome--only the best of the best get to be the king's otome. They're the "weapons of war," so they're the ones doing the fighting.

Secondly, Rado & co. didn't seem to want to fight the Otome head on--the clashed swords, won quickly, then left.

On the other hand, slackers like Nao get hired out to rich people (on average).
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