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Old 2006-03-15, 10:38   Link #61
Mirtual
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Question

1) Why is it that Yukariko can activate her robe at free will while she is no pillar, neither does she seem to have a master (or if she would have one he was never near her)??

2) What ever happened to those thousands of people who must have reiveived a black letter? I mean Mashiros city must be as good as empty...

3) This one evil guy explains that Erstin has been trained ever since her birth for this "mission" thing of hers. How is this possible? You can't unsummon your slave... and for me it seems like she summoned her slave for the first time??

4) Why did the black letter had no effect on Nagi?

5) How is it that Smith could create a new kind of Otomes in something like three days?


6) Where does Miyu come from? The only ones with the technology to build her woud be Garderobe or maybe Schwartz. Neither of them seems to be related to her.
-->Not really a plot hole.



7) What on earth is Searrs Foundaition doing in Otohime???
-->Not really a plot hole

8) What happened to that blue star?


9) Midori is searching for a way to heal the last living members of the black valley... what the ??? She is the last one who is still alive and no cyborg... I don't get it...
-->Guess this won't be counted directly as a plot hole, while the result, Midoris explanations for her actions are kind of a plot hole since there is no one left to cure except for herself.



10) How powerful must Miyu be if she managed to damage Sergay... ?
-->And again no direct plot hole. Just my own sarcastic way to protest against the fact that Sergay, as a normal humand being, should not have been able to receive as much damage as he did up until now with so few effects.



11) What happened to the Pure White Diamond? If that thing is so great, why is no one using it?
-->Again no direct one. But for me it does not make any sense to not use the strongest GEM they have while Schwartz and Asward are getting stronger and stronger.



12) Why is Tomoe so sick minded?
-->Again, just my sarcastic way to protest against the lack of character design behind her.


13) What happened to those hundered (?) of students at Garderobe?

For now this would be it.

EDIT: For the sake of the great Tremalkinger I humbly mark some of questions as non plot holes and therefore not really thread related. May the posting gods forgive me.

Last edited by Mirtual; 2006-03-15 at 12:10.
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Old 2006-03-15, 11:26   Link #62
Tremalkinger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
12) Why is Tomoe so sick minded?
Do you understand what a plot hole is?
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Old 2006-03-15, 11:37   Link #63
Eclipze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenoalpha
Why do you think that there are not enough different GEMs?
Er, is it that hard to understand the termiology of the word, unique?

Granted, there might be "nameless, common usage GEMS", but so far, we have NOT have such a scenario have we? (Shizuru, Natsuki, Mai, Arika/Rena, Nina, the 2 Meisters that clashed in episode 13/14, Fia--> All, as far as I remember, possessed unique GEMS.) And if one is to argue that those other Otomes were using the "common usage GEMS", then does that not support the arguement that they werent at "Meister level" in the first place?

Nina already said in episode 1, she was fustrated that the Coral robe was limiting her combat capabilities. Does that not mean that the "nameless common GEMS" differ greatly to a unique GEM then?
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Old 2006-03-15, 12:02   Link #64
Mirtual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tremalkinger
Do you understand what a plot hole is?
Actually I do yes.
But while I was at asking questions I did not see any harm in adding some not plot hole related questions.

But instead of showing me how smart you are, you could have answered the plot hole related questions like number one.

But don't mind me, everyone has his own ways of getting a higher post count I guess.
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Old 2006-03-15, 13:01   Link #65
Tremalkinger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
1) Why is it that Yukariko can activate her robe at free will while she is no pillar, neither does she seem to have a master (or if she would have one he was never near her)??
No idea. She might have a special status as a teacher, but no true explanation has been given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
2) What ever happened to those thousands of people who must have reiveived a black letter? I mean Mashiros city must be as good as empty...
Seeing as how Windbloom is the capitol of a nation, I don't think its outside reasonable belief to estimate its population in the millions. A majority of the Slaves arrived from the outside as well. Not sure where the problem is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
3) This one evil guy explains that Erstin has been trained ever since her birth for this "mission" thing of hers. How is this possible? You can't unsummon your slave... and for me it seems like she summoned her slave for the first time??
Training involves more than just the completion of the final goal. Most of Erstin's training probably involved being taught repeatedly how important it was that she complete her goal and why the goal was more important than her life (ie brainwashing).

Also, while its not unreasonable to assume that this is the first time Erstin summoned her Slave, it's also just that, an assumption. Don't base a claim of a plothole on an assumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
4) Why did the black letter had no effect on Nagi?
What effect would you have liked for it to have? The black letters simply enable the recipients to summon Slaves of their own free will. Nagi has no desire to do so. Or am I misinterpreting you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
5) How is it that Smith could create a new kind of Otomes in something like three days?
The design of the Valkyries is based on the design of Slaves, which Smith and Schwartz have been using for at least fifteen years. Also, work on the project started long before the invasion of Windbloom, with the construction of the container for Rena Sayer's body, the giant laser, and any other parts they needed to make the plan work.

Or is your question 'Why did the Valkyries only take 3 days to bond to their crystal?', in which case, that's right around the same amount of time it takes for a new Otome to get used to her powers, so that seems about right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
8) What happened to that blue star?
It's still in the sky, last I checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual

9) Midori is searching for a way to heal the last living members of the black valley... what the ??? She is the last one who is still alive and no cyborg... I don't get it...
-->Guess this won't be counted directly as a plot hole, while the result, Midoris explanations for her actions are kind of a plot hole since there is no one left to cure except for herself.
Midori states that all of the people living in the Awald village are 'cursed' to this day because of the malfunctioning weapon that hit the Black Valley. This 'curse' is passed down through the generations. It's probably a reference to mutations due to radiation, but whatever the case is, Garderobe's technology can cure it in all of the people of Aswald, and that's why Midori wants it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
13) What happened to those hundered (?) of students at Garderobe?
I have no idea how many students were originally at Garderobe (we're only shown 75, but I suppose their could be more), but I'd imagine that many of them went home, while others died in the attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
EDIT: For the sake of the great Tremalkinger I humbly mark some of questions as non plot holes and therefore not really thread related. May the posting gods forgive me.
That was awfully nice of you. Saved me from answering the ones that you aren't actually confused on.
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Old 2006-03-15, 13:45   Link #66
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
4) Why did the black letter had no effect on Nagi?
Nagi recieved a black letter?

The only letter he recieved was one by Smith that told him where to meet him and Nagi joked about how he thought that letter was to tell him to fight with a slave.

Recently though, it appears that those who receive black letters are those that are already part of the Cult.
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Old 2006-03-15, 15:10   Link #67
Seska
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Well, my explanation of "Why Carlteya have so many Otomes?"...

Perhaps Carlteya is a Country like USA. With many states inside, this States are bound together as USA.

Carlteya can be a land with 3 or 4 States? Like Romulus and Remus, are states in a bigger country too? Some Italian names was it? Wheres not the name where Shio are to be the Meister Otome? Florenza or so?

Then this explain the Otomes. every State president has a Otome. And the President ot the country has a "Meister" otome...

Well, thats my idea of explain this "Army"....

Mfg,
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Old 2006-03-15, 15:13   Link #68
Seska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness
Nagi recieved a black letter?
Yes, he recived a black letter, but without a Gem inside. More an notice to met "John Smith" in the Bar.... (With a German name or?)

Mfg,
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Old 2006-03-15, 15:32   Link #69
Mirtual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tremalkinger
No idea. She might have a special status as a teacher, but no true explanation has been given.



Seeing as how Windbloom is the capitol of a nation, I don't think its outside reasonable belief to estimate its population in the millions. A majority of the Slaves arrived from the outside as well. Not sure where the problem is.



Training involves more than just the completion of the final goal. Most of Erstin's training probably involved being taught repeatedly how important it was that she complete her goal and why the goal was more important than her life (ie brainwashing).

Also, while its not unreasonable to assume that this is the first time Erstin summoned her Slave, it's also just that, an assumption. Don't base a claim of a plothole on an assumption.



What effect would you have liked for it to have? The black letters simply enable the recipients to summon Slaves of their own free will. Nagi has no desire to do so. Or am I misinterpreting you?



The design of the Valkyries is based on the design of Slaves, which Smith and Schwartz have been using for at least fifteen years. Also, work on the project started long before the invasion of Windbloom, with the construction of the container for Rena Sayer's body, the giant laser, and any other parts they needed to make the plan work.

Or is your question 'Why did the Valkyries only take 3 days to bond to their crystal?', in which case, that's right around the same amount of time it takes for a new Otome to get used to her powers, so that seems about right.



It's still in the sky, last I checked.



Midori states that all of the people living in the Awald village are 'cursed' to this day because of the malfunctioning weapon that hit the Black Valley. This 'curse' is passed down through the generations. It's probably a reference to mutations due to radiation, but whatever the case is, Garderobe's technology can cure it in all of the people of Aswald, and that's why Midori wants it.



I have no idea how many students were originally at Garderobe (we're only shown 75, but I suppose their could be more), but I'd imagine that many of them went home, while others died in the attack.



That was awfully nice of you. Saved me from answering the ones that you aren't actually confused on.
To make it short you arguments make perfect sense and leave only Yukariko activation of her robe as a possible plot hole.
But thinking about it, as Fumi gave allowance for all the Otome to freely activate her robes during the attack on Garderobe, the teachers might simply be allowed to activate their robes whenever they want. Might that be what you meant with "special statues"?

Just two more things:
First, I thought Midori, Rado and the other Cyborgs were the last remaining memebers of the black valley, so basically they are Asward or not?

Second, the slave users seemed kind of "posessed" once they summoned their slave at least. I thought it was some kind of device or something behind that forcing them to do what they did.
I don't get why someone should summon a slave out of the blue and give up his former live to sacrifice himself for basically nothing.
But of course this is just plain specualtion from my side.

And I thought the effect on Nagi should have been that he got posessed or something like that, like all the other guys who received a black letter before. Not that I really except this to happen to a major character though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness
Nagi recieved a black letter?

The only letter he recieved was one by Smith that told him where to meet him and Nagi joked about how he thought that letter was to tell him to fight with a slave.

Recently though, it appears that those who receive black letters are those that are already part of the Cult.
Yeah, that looked like a black letter to me, or did I mistake that.
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Old 2006-03-15, 15:38   Link #70
Seska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
I don't get why someone should summon a slave out of the blue and give up his former live to sacrifice himself for basically nothing.
But of course this is just plain specualtion from my side.
Religon.....

Faith can break all walls, even selfsacrifais walls... (p.s. even in the RL there are some)


Quote:
And I thought the effect on Nagi should have been that he got posessed or something like that, like all the other guys who received a black letter before.Yeah, that looked like a black letter to me, or did I mistake that.
Well, the Black Letters dont obsession the opener (take controll all of a sudden about him). The owner knows whta he have to do, when he recive this letter... look the Tower Weapon builder... Did he call out a slave? he has recive one black letter too. There are some kind of them. Some with GEMs inside (but at the this time dont need anymore) and some instuctions... I think in Nagis one, was a notice to meet John Smith at the Bar, for contact a ally with "Schwarz". Thats it.

Mfg,
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Old 2006-03-15, 16:48   Link #71
Tremalkinger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
To make it short you arguments make perfect sense and leave only Yukariko activation of her robe as a possible plot hole. But thinking about it, as Fumi gave allowance for all the Otome to freely activate her robes during the attack on Garderobe, the teachers might simply be allowed to activate their robes whenever they want. Might that be what you meant with "special statues"?
Something like that, yes. But it hasn't been explicitly explained, so I didn't want to just make stuff up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
Just two more things:
First, I thought Midori, Rado and the other Cyborgs were the last remaining memebers of the black valley, so basically they are Asward or not?
I believe that Midori says that all of the people living the Aswald village are decendants of the original people who lived in the Black Valley. I don't have the videos with me to confirm this, however. (Episode 18, when Rado and Midori are talking with Arika and Mashiro about Aswald's history, and Rena's body, if you want to check yourself)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
Second, the slave users seemed kind of "posessed" once they summoned their slave at least. I thought it was some kind of device or something behind that forcing them to do what they did. I don't get why someone should summon a slave out of the blue and give up his former live to sacrifice himself for basically nothing. But of course this is just plain specualtion from my side.
People giving their lives for ideals is a lot more common than you might think, for better or for worse. It's especially common in groups or societies that glorify personal sacrifice, create fanatic mentalities and believe in paradise after death. While we're never actually shown any motivation for why the people who recieve the Black Letters would willingly sacrifice their lives, Erstin's mantra before she summons hers suggests to me that it involves a belief in paradise after death. It's only after they've activated the crystals that they seem feral. But again, this is all speculation, and thus not really the basis for a plothole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirtual
Yeah, that looked like a black letter to me, or did I mistake that.
It was a black letter, though the contents were probably simple meeting instructions. It wouldn't have make sense for Schwartz to use Nagi as a minion... he's much more useful as a partner (for now ).
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Old 2006-03-15, 21:35   Link #72
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
I believe that Midori says that all of the people living the Aswald village are decendants of the original people who lived in the Black Valley. I don't have the videos with me to confirm this, however. (Episode 18, when Rado and Midori are talking with Arika and Mashiro about Aswald's history, and Rena's body, if you want to check yourself)
The reason why their sick is because their all descendants of the Black Valley villagers. I think this is suppose to parallel the nuked cities of Japan where there's still sick people living to this day.

Quote:
Second, the slave users seemed kind of "posessed" once they summoned their slave at least. I thought it was some kind of device or something behind that forcing them to do what they did. I don't get why someone should summon a slave out of the blue and give up his former live to sacrifice himself for basically nothing. But of course this is just plain specualtion from my side.
Possessed? More like linked with their SLAVES. THey bleed their blood on it, make a contract, and then control the SLAVE right from there.

In this case, Schwarz contacts the disinhearted people in the world and gather them into their cult for their use.

I don't see how this is hard to believe.

1 - Windbloom citizens, nough said, it's obvious that not alot of people were happy under Mashiro's rule.

2 - When the emperor of Anan discussed with Natsuki about the Ho family and his Otome reminded her that it was because the Ho family suffered greatly in the Dragon King war.

3 - That worker who received a letter when Arika received the blue Gem, he wasn't exactly happy go either.

There are also probably people out there that are jealous of how Garderobe hogs all of the technology in the world so they go to Schwarz for that.

BTW wasn't there some scene in one of the episodes that discussed about Schwarz's cult?
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Old 2006-03-15, 22:53   Link #73
xenoalpha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Er, is it that hard to understand the termiology of the word, unique?

Granted, there might be "nameless, common usage GEMS", but so far, we have NOT have such a scenario have we? (Shizuru, Natsuki, Mai, Arika/Rena, Nina, the 2 Meisters that clashed in episode 13/14, Fia--> All, as far as I remember, possessed unique GEMS.) And if one is to argue that those other Otomes were using the "common usage GEMS", then does that not support the arguement that they werent at "Meister level" in the first place?

Nina already said in episode 1, she was fustrated that the Coral robe was limiting her combat capabilities. Does that not mean that the "nameless common GEMS" differ greatly to a unique GEM then?
You are contradicting yourself to say no common usage GEMs exist yet have a whole chunk talking about it. Why can't the other Otomes be using unique gems as well? I don't know why you mentioned Nina's case when hers is a Coral GEM, which is made from Fumi. And again you have not answered why there can't be more unique GEMs.
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Old 2006-03-15, 23:19   Link #74
Eclipze
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Originally Posted by xenoalpha
You are contradicting yourself to say no common usage GEMs exist yet have a whole chunk talking about it. Why can't the other Otomes be using unique gems as well? I don't know why you mentioned Nina's case when hers is a Coral GEM, which is made from Fumi. And again you have not answered why there can't be more unique GEMs.
What? Im saying that we have NOT been shown that there are "common usage Meister GEMS".

And then I proceeded to use YOUR point that there is the possibility of "common usage GEMS", and further explain that if these GEMS exits and that those OTomes other than Fia were using them, that they are different in power levels compared to a unique GEM like "Fire String Ruby" or "Azure Blue Sapphire".

Nina's Coral GEM was made from Fumi, yes, but it indicated that a robe of that level has much difference in power compared to a Pearl Robe. Now, compare a seemingly "nameless common Meister GEM" to a "unique Meister GEM", the same case applies, even moreso since each unique GEM's powers differ from each other, and have their own special properties (not really, but you get the idea).

Now, you want to ask why there are not enough unique GEMS for every Otome?

Lets see:
Number of graduates per year: 3-5 (estimate, as it is said to be a "handful of graduates")
Number of years Guarderobe seemed to have operated: 50 years.
Total number of graduates: 5 X 50 = 250 or so.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26331
Now, unless you're telling that they are capable of producing "1000 varieties of Rubies/Sapphire" each with their own unique names and such, I dont see how each Otome gets to have their own unique GEM.
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Old 2006-03-16, 00:03   Link #75
xenoalpha
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Originally Posted by Eclipze
What? Im saying that we have NOT been shown that there are "common usage Meister GEMS".

And then I proceeded to use YOUR point that there is the possibility of "common usage GEMS", and further explain that if these GEMS exits and that those OTomes other than Fia were using them, that they are different in power levels compared to a unique GEM like "Fire String Ruby" or "Azure Blue Sapphire".
Where did i say that there are 'common usage GEMs'? I'm saying that those Otomes are Meisters using a unique GEM too, the same as Fia, however they are not as powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Now, you want to ask why there are not enough unique GEMS for every Otome?

Lets see:
Number of graduates per year: 3-5 (estimate, as it is said to be a "handful of graduates")
Number of years Guarderobe seemed to have operated: 50 years.
Total number of graduates: 5 X 50 = 250 or so.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26331
Now, unless you're telling that they are capable of producing "1000 varieties of Rubies/Sapphire" each with their own unique names and such, I dont see how each Otome gets to have their own unique GEM.
Again, why do you think 1000s unique GEMs are needed(considering MO's scope of the world is not that large) or they will have any problem producing that much(this is anime ) . Besides, how are GEMs other than Corals/Pearls produced are not really explained yet.
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Old 2006-03-16, 01:44   Link #76
Eclipze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenoalpha
Where did i say that there are 'common usage GEMs'? I'm saying that those Otomes are Meisters using a unique GEM too, the same as Fia, however they are not as powerful.
Right, and Rado chose to ignore all the other "Meisters with unique GEMs" and just address Fia, Fia alone, with her title "Beauty of the Onyx" or something. Wait, he didnt even address the "nameless Otomes" as Meisters.
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Old 2006-03-16, 02:02   Link #77
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Eclipze
Right, and Rado chose to ignore all the other "Meisters with unique GEMs" and just address Fia, Fia alone, with her title "Beauty of the Onyx" or something. Wait, he didnt even address the "nameless Otomes" as Meisters.
Actually it was Lumen, Rado wasn't observing.

"All of the country's Otomes have gathered...Ah! Even the Onyx of Beauty came out."

For starters, I don't think Lumen's gonna start saying all of their names...I mean that'll get kinda long and boring... Not to mention FIa is their main target anyways since she's linked to the king.

Eitherway, I don't think their full - fledged meisters, I mean that'll be pretty bad if they were all linked to the king, one dies and he's screwed and we get a domino effect

Judging from what was said about Chie, I don't think she was going to be a meister either, it was said she would return home to serve under Harkua.
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Old 2006-03-16, 02:36   Link #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Right, and Rado chose to ignore all the other "Meisters with unique GEMs" and just address Fia, Fia alone, with her title "Beauty of the Onyx" or something. Wait, he didnt even address the "nameless Otomes" as Meisters.
OH PLEASE. Fia is the king's Otome, obviously the strongest threat to them. Just because Lumen(its not Rad who commented) did not name the other otomes, it doesn't mean that they don't have names. You mean they need to name all the otomes? If so, how long will it take. Besides, the other otomes are no threat to them. If you want to nitpick Lumen using 'Otome' rather than 'Meister', then why did Fia used 'Otome' at ep20 14:38 to refer to herself instead of 'Meister'?? Its because the terms are interchangeable when referring to Meisters.
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Old 2006-03-16, 03:16   Link #79
Eclipze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenoalpha
OH PLEASE. Fia is the king's Otome, obviously the strongest threat to them. Just because Lumen(its not Rad who commented) did not name the other otomes, it doesn't mean that they don't have names. You mean they need to name all the otomes? If so, how long will it take. Besides, the other otomes are no threat to them. If you want to nitpick Lumen using 'Otome' rather than 'Meister', then why did Fia used 'Otome' at ep20 14:38 to refer to herself instead of 'Meister'?? Its because the terms are interchangeable when referring to Meisters.
Fine. So in conclusion, those are all Meisters, and they sucked compared to Fia because they ALL got pawned by Rad and gang. Hey, you even said it yourself: Fia was the strongest. But Alas, those other "meisters" arent even up to the "standard".
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Old 2006-03-16, 03:26   Link #80
xenoalpha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Fine. So in conclusion, those are all Meisters, and they sucked compared to Fia because they ALL got pawned by Rad and gang. Hey, you even said it yourself: Fia was the strongest. But Alas, those other "meisters" arent even up to the "standard".
Yeah, they sucked compared to Fia but are STILL unique GEM meisters. Isn't that the main point?
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