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View Poll Results: Fate/stay Night Episode 6 Rating
Perfect 10 12 11.32%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 15.09%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 33 31.13%
7 out of 10 : Good 26 24.53%
6 out of 10 : Average 17 16.04%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.94%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.94%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-02-11, 16:53   Link #41
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelsama
Maybe you're right, but i can't see the series being like that for the total of 26 episodes.

Another good episode in my books.. but i really can't understand why people are hating Shirou.. is it just that its the law that people on this forum have the hate the main male lead? o.o

Archer & Shirou's talk just owned, joined with that brilliant piece of music.. i want more! >.<
I'm with you on this one Angel. Infact, I find Shirou far more likeable than many of the main characters I've been forced to watch the past year or two. Examples being Shinn from GSD, Rin from Shuffle, etc. Shirou is also showing that he's not just some weak willed guy that all the women flock to in the series. He has a very firmly based belief system, and he'll fight for it. His nobleness just happens to attract the likes of the girls around him.

But seriously if you saw this episode, and still hate Shirou, there's some serious over where you're coming from. He protected Rin and the other school girl from Rider's attack, focused the attention of Rider away from them, while wounded heavily in his right arm(it was practically useless until the battle was over), parried one attack, deflected another, all while only being able to use one arm! This guy's never been trained in combat, only knows a very very limited amount of sorcery, yet he's done quite well considering the circumstances involved. Rin can't help but harbor feelings for the thick-headed male lead. I mean even in the middle of their 'battle', he turned his back on Rin to come to the aid of a girl in distress. +1 for Shirou.

But I'll let MrProphet and the other Shirou haters keep mouthing off, and keep silent from now on with my replies to them, as I just find their critcisms very off-key with the flow of the story, and the background of the characters. If they dislike so many elements of this show so much, they should find something else. Fate is still my top pick of 2006 and hasn't changed 6 episodes in.

Will
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Old 2006-02-11, 17:13   Link #42
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This has to be one of the most intresting episodes so far with really bringing out the character in Shirou. I really hope to show more insight between the whole Archer and Shirou thing.
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Old 2006-02-11, 17:15   Link #43
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I honestly can't see why Shirou was hated by people here. He is a decent man and even after game, he still is. My suspicion is because he is getting the girls, not the fans.....hence earning eminity and jealousy? Like someone said, he is not some dunderhead which forms a staple main lead in most animes.

His principle is noble, and many people have problem because he express it so honestly, some people might unable to accept it. I dunno, maybe. Also preplexed me that why people just can't accept a principled character who is willing to sacrifice himself for his beliefs. What's wrong with you people? Can't believe in highest form of humanity anymore? Why so jaded? Fine, his actions is questionable but this is who he is.

Rin is just being human, and situation like this definitely not easy on her.

I have no idea why people can't accept characters is just being human. Not everything is easy as it is supposed to be.
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Old 2006-02-11, 17:27   Link #44
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If Shirou did something to hurt someone's feelings.. or anything like that, then i'd understand. But the guy's willing to fight to save Saber from any kind of danger. In my book thats the work of a true character, at least he's not just thinking about getting into a some girls underwear.

And i'll give it a few days untill some ask's for a 'We Hate Shirou club'. -_-
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Old 2006-02-11, 17:38   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2
I honestly can't see why Shirou was hated by people here. He is a decent man and even after game, he still is. My suspicion is because he is getting the girls, not the fans.....hence earning eminity and jealousy? Like someone said, he is not some dunderhead which forms a staple main lead in most animes.

His principle is noble, and many people have problem because he express it so honestly, some people might unable to accept it. I dunno, maybe. Also preplexed me that why people just can't accept a principled character who is willing to sacrifice himself for his beliefs. What's wrong with you people? Can't believe in highest form of humanity anymore? Why so jaded?
I think people get fustrated with him because he continues to spue out some rightaeous intentions yet never truely does anything to make them into reality. The fact that he doesn't take the whole "War for the Holy Grail" seriously is another example. The man has already died twice within the last 5 episodes, could have easily became a third time in episode 6 and yet he's still so hap-hazard about it. Even Rin is fustrated by his attitude in the anime. He's the main character a lot of people expect him to be cool and powerful and do stuff. Yet he does nothing and put himself in needlessly dangerous situations where he gets poned and waits for some miracleous thing to happen in order to save him. Rin ressurecting him, Saber being summoned with his knowing, Iirya just deciding to walk away when she could have had Berserker lop off everyones head... ect.
Some "Hero"... He's got a good heart, he's got, the most powerful servant, girls that support him. The thing he's missing is intellegence and drive. (I add in the intellegence part because even if he lack drive, he should be smart enough to think of self preservation in a war even if he doesn't really want to take part and kill.) It's fustrating to watch such a backwards protagonist... *sigh* but I guess that's what most animes are like though so oh well. Hopefully he turns into a beatuiful butterfly instead of the caterpillar he is right now. He wants to save people, that's his belief. The way he's going about it is stupid though, his psychological desire to play the part of a martyr will put the lives of more people in danger in the end, this is even pointed out to him at the very beginning when he met the priest dude

For the record I'm not a Shirou hater, I can just understand the frustration some peolpe may have towards this character. I actually like him, personally. My greatest hope for the series to see a three way triangle between him, Sakura and Rider... I'm ex KKK from Shuffle... what can I say?
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Old 2006-02-11, 17:40   Link #46
Gaia
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I liked this episode, but it wasnt perfect in my opinion. Well, I was happy to see Rider finaly in action but there was still to less Rider... more of her! She's so strong, fast and secksay. Well, since I've watched the RAW, I havent understand the the entire story of 6 but nvm... I'll rewatch the subbed version later, to get the complete story.
Tohsaka seems to be in a pinchi, since her job is to kill Emiya... but since he's such a nice guy, she probably got some feelings for him, I think... Cant belive, that she or Archer could ever kill him Well, I wonder how the story goes on...
Anyway... there's one battle, I really looking forward to... I saw it in a Trailer.

Spoiler:


For so long

Aesir
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Old 2006-02-11, 17:48   Link #47
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Good ep. I dont know about the hate the main character thing, but as for me i think Shiro is a really good character making all the right moves even though he is the weakest out of them all. I also like how he was paired with saber as they both have a high value in justice. This series is turning out to be really good.
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Old 2006-02-11, 17:54   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesir
Anyway... there's one battle, I really looking forward to... I saw it in a Trailer.

Spoiler:
I was wondering a lil' while ago if we were going to see all the scenes that appeared in the Prologue, in the anime.. but even if thats not true i can still see us seeing the battle you wanna see. ^^
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Old 2006-02-11, 18:02   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Moon Eclipse
I think people get fustrated with him because he continues to spue out some rightaeous intentions yet never truely does anything to make them into reality.
On the contrary, he does plenty. It's just that right now he doesn't have the power to back up his ideals. He tries to make his goals a reality but he ultimately fails in every aspect. Is failure suddenly such a horrendous thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Eclipse
Yet he does nothing and put himself in needlessly dangerous situations where he gets poned and waits for some miracleous thing to happen in order to save him.
Except he doesn't expect that he'll be saved. He puts himself on the line to protect those he cares about. He had no idea that he'd heal after Berserker, nor did he know he could have healed after Rider. He actually was smart in that fight by not summoning Saber. Had he, and Rider would have really killed him on the spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Eclipse
The thing he's missing is intellegence and drive.
He most certainly has drive, else he would not have protected Saber nor took the initiative in going out to fight Rider. And for intelligence, again I point to the Rider fight. It just so happens that sacrificing one's self for the needs of others isn't viewed as intelligent by people. Which is true, it really isn't. But it's most certainly an honorable quality and finding fault with that is kind of weird.

Yes, Shirou's ideology has faults. It isn't suppose to be perfect, as Archer and Kiritsugu both point out how being a "Hero of Justice" is impossible. But Shirou's still very much a person that believes that ALL people can be saved without the expense of others. A very childish belief. But I suppose you can view Fate/stay night as a "coming of age" story for Shirou (some arcs more so then others).
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Old 2006-02-11, 18:27   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Moon Eclipse
I think people get fustrated with him because he continues to spue out some rightaeous intentions yet never truely does anything to make them into reality. The fact that he doesn't take the whole "War for the Holy Grail" seriously is another example.
It shows that although Shirou has no power, he still refuses to abandon his beliefs all for the sake of the Grail War.

Shirou doesn't care about winning. Unlike the other Masters/Servants, Shirou doesn't have any wish that he wants to make, and just wants to make sure that any innocent people are not caught in the cross fire as long as the Grail War is happening.

Unlike most people, even when pressured to, Shirou refuses to abandon what he believes in, even though, as Archer told him, is a foolish pipe-dream.

That's like complaining about Shuya from Battle Royale refusing to play according to the game.

Quote:
Some "Hero"... He's got a good heart, he's got, the most powerful servant, girls that support him. The thing he's missing is intellegence and drive. (I add in the intellegence part because even if he lack drive, he should be smart enough to think of self preservation in a war even if he doesn't really want to take part and kill.)
So you're saying that one should just forsake everything that you once believed in because the situation is unfavorable to yourself?

The above question is actually very important in Fate/stay night.

Quote:
He wants to save people, that's his belief. The way he's going about it is stupid though, his psychological desire to play the part of a martyr will put the lives of more people in danger in the end, this is even pointed out to him at the very beginning when he met the priest dude
That is the question that Shirou will face as the story progresses.

And to those complaining about Shirou not summoning Saber to fight, it's obvious that Shirou thinks of Saber as a person rather than a tool to be used and thrown away later.
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Old 2006-02-11, 18:45   Link #51
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Then it just goes to show he really hasn't realized that Saber didn't join him to watch Tiger go silly.
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Old 2006-02-11, 19:05   Link #52
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It's not so much the lack of intelligence (Shiro is intelligent) or the lack of fighting power (would be unfair to begrudge him that) or even this "drive" (that's the whole point, because Shiro is the unlikely hero who still struggles to find his way) that I find annoying in our Main Character.

It's more like... the complete and utter lack of common sense. Noone who possesses common sense would go out unprotected and leave your only fight-worthy comrade behide when they KNOW that they can't defent themselves and they KNOW that they are going into enemy territory.

Same with going under Berserker's weapon. Sure, it's "noble" and "righteous", but it is also unbelievably stupid.

Here we have a girl in ARMOR(sic!) and with a SWORD(sic!) and an absolutely defenseless guy rushing to protect a complete stranger for no good reason. He must have a deathwish, seeing how to would risk his life and serve absolutely no purpose in the end (judging by the fact that Shiro survived, Saber would have survived as well due to her armor).

It seemed me that one thing Shiro does NOT lack is an incredible amount of chutzpah, audacity bordering on insanity and supreme self-confidence that is absolutely not supported by any skill in a fight or any measure of protection. It's like Shiro has incredible hubris - going out there defenseless just to try his luck. And like any hubris, it has to be punished sooner or later just to follow its logic to the end.
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Old 2006-02-11, 19:23   Link #53
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Originally Posted by MrProphet
It's more like... the complete and utter lack of common sense. Noone who possesses common sense would go out unprotected and leave your only fight-worthy comrade behide when they KNOW that they can't defent themselves and they KNOW that they are going into enemy territory.
Shirou had no idea what he was walking too, and i don't think he knew it was going to be a servant out there.
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Old 2006-02-11, 19:38   Link #54
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Originally Posted by MrProphet
It's more like... the complete and utter lack of common sense. Noone who possesses common sense would go out unprotected and leave your only fight-worthy comrade behide when they KNOW that they can't defent themselves and they KNOW that they are going into enemy territory.
What are you referring to here? Going after Rider? When he first went into the forest he had no idea that he was being attacked by a Servant, nor was he aware it was enemy territory. It took Rin to remind him of his feeling when he entered school for him to understand it.

As for why he didn't bring Saber... two reasons. If you're referring to him not bringing her to school, he was of the belief that since the school was a busy, active place that he wouldn't get attacked by a Master. This is a valid belief as demonstrated by Lancer's immense urge to kill the witness to his fight with Archer.

As for why he didn't call her during the Rider fight... again, he would have been killed on the spot. Listen to what Rider says. When she realizes he isn't going to call Saber she says that she'll change her tactics and get him to repent for his insult to her. Then there's the fact that if you call Saber at this point in game, you get killed, IIRC

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet
Here we have a girl in ARMOR(sic!) and with a SWORD(sic!) and an absolutely defenseless guy rushing to protect a complete stranger for no good reason. He must have a deathwish, seeing how to would risk his life and serve absolutely no purpose in the end (judging by the fact that Shiro survived, Saber would have survived as well due to her armor).
First off, Shirou was not aware that he'd survive. He simply reacted to the situation at hand in which he felt it his chivalric duty to protect the little blond girl that was about to get clobbered with a spiked club. There wasn't time to think about what the consequences would be. And I'd say that dying for a cute girl isn't entirely worthless. With Shirou out of the way Rin has Saber all to herself

And about Saber being able to survive... that isn't necessarily true. The reason she's sleeping and eating all the time is because she isn't getting much mana from Shirou. So she doesn't have any super human regeneration (well, she does, but not like Shirou's). According to the anime's "explanation" so far, Shirou recovers because of Saber. Not the other way around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet
It's like Shiro has incredible hubris - going out there defenseless just to try his luck. And like any hubris, it has to be punished sooner or later just to follow its logic to the end.
It's hardly hubris in the traditional sense. Shirou doesn't have any confidence in his abilities, just the want and need to protect as many people as he can. Sure, thinking that he can protect everyone can be looked at as prideful, it isn't in Shirou's case.

Though I can see where you're coming from. Shirou's relatively simple minded attitude can be a bit trying, but I've learned to cope and like it. It's nice to see someone that refuses to quit and has such optimistic view on people. Even if it's a childish belief
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Old 2006-02-11, 19:51   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Guy
What are you referring to here? Going after Rider? When he first went into the forest he had no idea that he was being attacked by a Servant, nor was he aware it was enemy territory. It took Rin to remind him of his feeling when he entered school for him to understand it.

As for why he didn't bring Saber... two reasons. If you're referring to him not bringing her to school, he was of the belief that since the school was a busy, active place that he wouldn't get attacked by a Master. This is a valid belief as demonstrated by Lancer's immense urge to kill the witness to his fight with Archer.

As for why he didn't call her during the Rider fight... again, he would have been killed on the spot. Listen to what Rider says. When she realizes he isn't going to call Saber she says that she'll change her tactics and get him to repent for his insult to her. Then there's the fact that if you call Saber at this point in game, you get killed, IIRC
I wasn't talking about Saber (whose absence was explained), I was talking about Rin!

He gets pierced by Rider's weapon, so he must have known there is a Servant out there, but he still goes out and leaves Rin behind. And Rin showed herself to be a competent mage (and she can summon Archer). Kinda strange of Shiro not to think of that.

Quote:
He simply reacted to the situation at hand in which he felt it his chivalric duty to protect the little blond girl that was about to get clobbered with a spiked club.
Yeah, this is anime after all. Suspension of disbelief and all that. Hero saving his girl gets automatic +5 to health and +10 to defense agains weapons.

In the end, it doesn't really matter who gets hurt when. Rin just uses her Phoenix Down and all is well in the magical kingdom of anime.
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Old 2006-02-11, 20:00   Link #56
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I was looking forward to this episode since I was unable to watch it air on Friday. Unlike the previous episodes I gave this an ‘Average’ rating. I don’t wish to elaborate too much as to why but to put it simply it was mainly down to the pacing and plot-progression.

Also, briefly reading the comments made about Shiro. To me, he is naive but admirable in his desires. He also lacks the maturity to fully understand the given situation he is unfortunately in. I’m sure this will become a prominent source for himself and the other characters to interact with.
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Old 2006-02-11, 20:02   Link #57
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Ok Mr Prophet.. And many of you others.. Have any of you watched the episode? Shirou saved Tohsaka's hide! That dagger would of killed her right in the back of the head.. So it's ONLY normal she's going to have conflicting emotions about him.. Would be normal for ANYONE that just had their hide saved by an enemy.

Secondly she knew him otherwise she wouldn't of saved him in the first place she said it herself when she saw who it was. It had to be you of all people. She doesn't want him dead or she wouldn't of saved him, and she was trying to hurt him to convince him to leave the battle she was trying to protect him. If he gave her the marks he could continue on no longer as a target and since he was one of the seven chosen he wouldn't have to be killed for knowing too much. But she realized that his resolve is strong so maybe for a while she could use him and at the same time protect him since if their is a truce between them she can keep a close eye on him. All in all it feels very realistic to me the dilemna she is facing so she first tried to hurt and scare him into giving up the marks willingly but that didn't work so all she can do right now is try to watch over him.

BTW he may not have magic but seems like he knows how to use a sword possibly otherwise he wouldn't of been able to deflect that dagger and chain back at Rider. I am wondering if this is another aspect of his and Sabers bond? All types of things that are unheard of seems to be happening with him and Saber.. His regen ability, her lack of being able to vanish, now possibly some of her fighting skill, as well as a master that doesn't see his servant as just a servant but a person, and not only that but a servant that seems to genuinely care for her master.

Wonder if the Holy Grail itself chose him for these qualities to see just what would happen if someone that cares more for others than themselves were to be in the battle?

Now on side note my opinion:
Now I am curious why so many believe that he must of known it was a servant. He was totally suprised it was a servant and admitted it to himself that he didn't have a chance against a servant, but his ideals in the beginning prevented him from calling Saber. For one he feels weak as a master and must prove himself worthy to protect the innocent and fight for justice. By the time he realized that she was playing with him it was already to late as long as she had him he couldn't summon Saber without summoning her into a trap so he fought on without giving up hope.

Last edited by molitar; 2006-02-11 at 20:14.
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Old 2006-02-11, 20:07   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molitar
Ok Mr Prophet.. And many of you others.. Have any of you watched the episode? Shirou saved Tohsaka's hide! That dagger would of killed her right in the back of the head.. So it's ONLY normal she's going to have conflicting emotions about him.. Would be normal for ANYONE that just had their hide saved by an enemy.
I was talking about the thing before Rider made her move. Tohsaka lowered her guns almost from the start. First offering for him to give up (yeah, and where is her "I will kill him!" attitude now? ), then just forgetting the whole thing altogether when they've heard the scream.
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Old 2006-02-11, 20:22   Link #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrProphet
I was talking about the thing before Rider made her move. Tohsaka lowered her guns almost from the start. First offering for him to give up (yeah, and where is her "I will kill him!" attitude now? ), then just forgetting the whole thing altogether when they've heard the scream.
Well, it was stated in the previous episode that she didn't really want to kill Shirou - at most she would just take his arm, which would give her access to his command seal and Saber's contract (thus putting Saber under her control). Her being easily distracted from the task at hand (acquiring Saber) by the danger nameless schoolmate x was placed in should say something about her attitude towards the War, which from my recollection is that
Spoiler:


And as for Shirou, I would say it's his naivete and recklessness that puts him in such stupid situations. It is admirable (though somewhat torturous) to see him try and stick to his idealistic code of heroism so much that he would take the hit for someone in danger, but we should see him reconsidering his beliefs over the course of the series, especially after his talk with Archer.
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Old 2006-02-11, 21:25   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tragicsmile
Well, it was stated in the previous episode that she didn't really want to kill Shirou - at most she would just take his arm, which would give her access to his command seal and Saber's contract (thus putting Saber under her control). Her being easily distracted from the task at hand (acquiring Saber) by the danger nameless schoolmate x was placed in should say something about her attitude towards the War, which from my recollection is that
Spoiler:


And as for Shirou, I would say it's his naivete and recklessness that puts him in such stupid situations. It is admirable (though somewhat torturous) to see him try and stick to his idealistic code of heroism so much that he would take the hit for someone in danger, but we should see him reconsidering his beliefs over the course of the series, especially after his talk with Archer.
In most cases, heroes like Shirou don't end up backing out of their beliefs as noble as his, so I'm willing to bet money, even if they stray from the different game story arcs, that he won't change very much in this category. If I said anymore though, it would be an extremely huge spoiler.
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