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Old 2006-02-13, 15:29   Link #21
Ryuu-Odjn
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I actually like FFVIII alot. It has this strange..charm over me. I know I should hate it. Drawing makes the game exceeding boring. GF attacks last for ridiculously long. It's completely broken once you gain certain spells or items. The story's rubbish and there's times when it makes you go "WHA...??". I don't like most of the cast. The enemies are rather rubbish and boring.

Yet I love it. I can overlook it's flaws. Once the game hits a groove, usually when you have enough of the basic spells to gain a decent junction system, I can play in long periods at a time. The game tries to be different from it's predecessors and I think it works. The GF system is a progression of the esters of FFVI and a predecessor to the FFX's Aeons. Triple Triad is ridiculously addictive. The story, while making little sense, is kinda like a bad soap opera - what will it throw at you next

I like Squall. He's actually not a bad character, but a realistic one IMO (for the first two discs at least). He gets thrusted into situations and thinks "Why Me?". I wish he'd stayed the way he was rather than becoming the love-sick fool he does in disc 3/4. The rest of the cast was pretty much forgettable for me. Except for Laguna's...antics.

Final Fantasy VIII is the one I'd like to see remade, not VII. It does alot right for me, and what it does wrong is fixable. The GF system was mainly done right in FFX's Aeons. The magic system could be fixed by allowing a second "reservoir" for stats alone. Make drawing either easier (draw much more than 9 low-level spells at a time or even sell them). Remove the cheap attacks. Perhaps apply certain properties to a character when they equip a GF, like gaining Fire-elemental physicals with Ifrit equipped.

Mind you, it wouldn't be FFVIII by the time I'd changed everything. Except Triple Triad.
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Old 2006-02-13, 15:32   Link #22
twh
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As earlier stated, FFVIII's biggest flaw was being released after FFVII. Well, that and also the unlikable principle characters, the draw system, the enemy experience system, the card game, the CG interludes, and the biggest flaw of them all, Rinoa Heartily. If you thought Rosa Farrel from FFIV was without personality, she's fricken Helen Keller compared to Rinoa. The absolute WORST part of the game was when you had to rescue her in Disc 3 and then had to endure "Eyes on Me' when you made it back to the ship...

....the memory burns us, precious... X_X
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Old 2006-02-13, 19:13   Link #23
Abbott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert
Once you get past a certain level though, it doesn't really matter anymore what level the enemy's at. By the time I got to the third disc, any combination of my characters could defeat just about anybody they throw at me. The limit breaks are just too powerful, especially angel wing. That Rinoa is so useful. And even if magics are needed for stats, the GFs more than made up for it. Plus, there's invincibility items, how cheap is that?
Then don't use the invincibility items or limit breaks. FF8 has a very flexible system, so although there are no rules as to what you can and cannot do, you can make up your own rules to stick to. You don't have to use GF's, just like you don't have to use limit breaks, and you don't have to use specific characters, etc etc.
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Old 2006-02-13, 19:18   Link #24
Eclipze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuu-Odjn
The GF system was mainly done right in FFX's Aeons.
Not really....they're entirely different. Aeons can only be used by Yuna, whereas GFs were like cheap pets that anyone could use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuu-Odjn
The magic system could be fixed by allowing a second "reservoir" for stats alone.
Agreed, but still stupid considering that once you cast finish 100 of the spell, you have to go draw it again. *yawn*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuu-Odjn
Make drawing either easier (draw much more than 9 low-level spells at a time or even sell them).
Um, isn't the draw system based on your magic stats? I remember one of my characters drawing 13 magic at a time when he/she had about 50+ magic, compared to squall who had about 30 at that tme, and drew only 7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuu-Odjn
Perhaps apply certain properties to a character when they equip a GF, like gaining Fire-elemental physicals with Ifrit equipped.
This is a problem actually...If a character were to equip Shiva, Ifrit, Leviathen and Quetzel(sp?) all at once, what would happen if he gets hit by an elemental spell? absorb it? or take double damage?

Besides, theres already the elemental junction for weapon/defence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuuOdjn
Mind you, it wouldn't be FFVIII by the time I'd changed everything. Except Triple Triad.
FF VIII-2 perhaps?
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Old 2006-02-13, 19:56   Link #25
Nemuru
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The draw back of the FFVIII system is that we become too dependant on a particular aspect, perfect melee or GF overload hence i can see why there isn't much variety in game play. Still it didn't affect me because I usually melee in all the FF series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuu-Odjn
The magic system could be fixed by allowing a second "reservoir" for stats alone.
Agreed, but still stupid considering that once you cast finish 100 of the spell, you have to go draw it again. *yawn*
It was balance since spell ddin't inccur any SP/MP cost.

GF were always suppose to be long summon, just people rely too much on it, the only GF worth using are cerubus, Diablo, Carbuncle and Doom train.

Story wise for FFVIII I like the cast and the romance aspect of it, romance wasn't a strong point in the early FF series so FFVIII was unique and special.
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Old 2006-02-13, 20:25   Link #26
Xellos-_^
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I rate FFVIII a 7.5/10. it was good but not great. It had some very good point but also some extremely bad ones.

The good:
- Squall, pretty intresting character, didn't sprout any of those annoying i will save the world lines.
- Triple Triad, best mini game ever.
- The graphic and Music were very good. The theme song is one you can listen to over and over again.
- Combat/junction system once you get the hang of it is pretty nifty.
- I am a sucker for Romance and FVIII has the best romance of any FF game. Lets not mention tactic with the brother/sister thing.

The Bad:
- The story, the basic premise for FFVIII was really good but the ground for the character are like swiss cheese with holes big enough to drive a truck through. The best they can come up with why none of them remeber being together in the orphanage was becuas eof GP induce memory loss Thats just lazy writing in my book. And considering laguana was the president of the most powerful country in the world how the hell did it take this long to find Squall Squall was in Garden for the last ten years how hard was it to track him down.
- The Combat system, it favors melee combat way too much. Even if you want to use your magic and was willing risk the lost stats through junction. you were better off using melee since all the Attack Magic were crap. A craefully lvl Squall with one swing of his sword could cause far more damage then a Ultima Spell. The only magic that is useful are the support and healing magic. The attack magic is crap.
- The GF system is the same, only bahamut and Eden cause enough damage in high lvl enemies to be worth using after you gain certain amount of lvls. And those two got riducles long summon scenes.


Overall if you don't think about the plot holes too much and is partial to Melee combat then FFVIII is a very good game. But otherwise you are going to hate it. Althought i woul dplay it just for the triple triad which is far more entertaining then the game itself.
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Old 2006-02-13, 21:15   Link #27
AnimePlus
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The gameplay must be like the worst ever, the card game could have replaced the battle system, but I don't know what you guys are saying about the plot. I mean I found myself drawn into the plot and setting very well, I could really see what was going on and found it believable.
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Old 2006-02-14, 02:01   Link #28
Bandersnatch
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I vaguely remember the characters, the story and gameplay were alright. Still I find it to be one of the most memorable FF's. I loved the cinematics, especially the opening one. Compare that to say...Final Fantasy X-2 and I almost want to cry. The music was awesome too, Eyes on Me (despite what anyone says ), Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec. Loved One Winged Angel in FFVII as well, been bummed that the latest FF's have pop crap and songs like Other World. Bring back the songs sung in Latin!!.

Oh, and to all you Rikku lovers, Quistis totally smokes her ass, shes like a perfect 10. Wait, wasnt she their teacher or something also? Now shes like an 11.
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Old 2006-02-14, 02:36   Link #29
Slayerx
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For me, FFVIII was amognst the worst of the final fantasy's i've played (this would exclude FFX-2; wasn't worth my time)... I aplyed through FFIX first, loved it... then i choose to play VIII next (i was suckered in by the graphics)... in the end, i hated it... i don't think i was ever able to find so many weak points in a storyline... The assasination plot to kill edea (lame ass plan), the orphanage (a coincidence of little to no importance), and the whole time compression thing are just a few of the things that i vaguely recall

The draw system was also a huge thorn in my side... i mean, not just in the way you used magic, but because of the fact that you could equip those spells to boost your stats, it made ever character nearly exactly the same, with exception of their limit breaks... ANY character could have the most strength, most agile, most hp, highest magic... i played nearly the entire game with like only three characters... unlike all other final fantasies where i actually found uses for switching up the team

the greatest final fantasy, IMO, was Final fantasy tactics... greatest story out of all of them(except the ending) with great gameplay to boot
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Old 2006-02-14, 02:54   Link #30
Ryuu-Odjn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Not really....they're entirely different. Aeons can only be used by Yuna, whereas GFs were like cheap pets that anyone could use.
True but by the end of FFX Aeons were made practically useless, a one shot attack before they were killed in one hit. Similar to GF then ><

Quote:
Agreed, but still stupid considering that once you cast finish 100 of the spell, you have to go draw it again. *yawn*
Which is why I suggested basic spells could be bought. After that you can refine them into the higher level spells. Bah, at this rate the game will be nothing like FFVIII!

Quote:
Um, isn't the draw system based on your magic stats? I remember one of my characters drawing 13 magic at a time when he/she had about 50+ magic, compared to squall who had about 30 at that tme, and drew only 7.
You could only draw more than 9 from draw points, which had a maximum amount they would give out and a set time to regenerate that amount. It doesn't matter about stats for them.

Quote:
This is a problem actually...If a character were to equip Shiva, Ifrit, Leviathen and Quetzel(sp?) all at once, what would happen if he gets hit by an elemental spell? absorb it? or take double damage?

Besides, theres already the elemental junction for weapon/defence.
Then limit the amount of GF equipped perhaps? Wild ARMS 3 does what I mean, equipping the fire guardian increases strength, wind increases speed and so on..

Quote:
FF VIII-2 perhaps?
It'll never happen but in the style of FFX-2?
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Old 2006-02-14, 03:27   Link #31
Gaia
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In my opinion, it was a good game. Not as good as FFVII but still nice. Well, FFVIII is a challenge, if you play it the first (and maybe second) time >without< walktrough of official guide. It takes quite some tries, to figure everything out. All those GF abilities, those "one chance to get a rare card" tripple triad games, the hidden GFs, etc. Anyway, once you know of most secrets, you can imagine your own guide, that comes pretty handy for FFVIII, since most gamers like to solve it hundred percent. Anyway, I agree to most of the critics here. Once you have your uber-chars, equipment, etc, it becomes to melee. It's simply overpowered in this point and that brings the game out of ballance... but still, most RPGs are that way... Even Tales Saga

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Old 2006-02-14, 05:53   Link #32
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott
Then don't use the invincibility items or limit breaks. FF8 has a very flexible system, so although there are no rules as to what you can and cannot do, you can make up your own rules to stick to. You don't have to use GF's, just like you don't have to use limit breaks, and you don't have to use specific characters, etc etc.
I know that, and you can limit yourself in any FF games, not just VIII. I'm just saying that the whole enemies leveling up with you deal serves little purpose other than getting rarer items/magics from them.
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Old 2006-02-14, 07:33   Link #33
Nemuru
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert
I know that, and you can limit yourself in any FF games, not just VIII. I'm just saying that the whole enemies leveling up with you deal serves little purpose other than getting rarer items/magics from them.
A greater challenge, i Found myself using status inflicting attack death, sleep, zombie to kill stronger monster. In FFVIII you can level up but only if you have bounse stats ability on GF. Since rare item could only be gotten by killing a high level monster it was neccessary inorder to make the best weapons in the game.

With Thornberry GF you could lvl up or down the monster. The battle system was different compared to other RPG and didn't follow tradition RPG rule "higher lvl equals more strengh". beating the game at lvl 15 was kinda interesting while pulling off 100k damage with squall lion heart.
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Old 2006-02-14, 11:30   Link #34
sayde
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I agree with those who say that FF8 advocated melee combat way too much and I feel this is mainly due to the fact that FF8's battle system relied a litte too much on junctioning magic.

Granted your first time through the game, this gets to be interesting, and somewhat rewarding and fun. But after looking back, all it did was enforce melee combat even further. As stated before there's no point in using attack spells because on the whole, they did awful damage. But add that to the fact that by using a junctioned spell, you'd actually decrease the stat it was junctioned to, then your definately not going to want to use magic even moreso.

On the whole though, I guess a major flaw in the games battle system would have to be the limit break system. It was far too easy to abuse/exploit and allowed me to beat the entire game playing the same exact way I did at the beginning of disk one. Leave any character you want with low hp and junction a high level spell to increase his/her hp as much as possible making his/her critical hp point even higher. Once that's done, you can abuse there limit breaks as much as you want without fear of getting KO'd until VERY late in the game.(And since you'll gave access to Aura way before then, that's still not saying very much.)

And last but not least, all it takes is a little over 3 hours from the very start of the game to create an extremely overpowered lvl 99 Squall (or any character for that matter).

Now I know people who disagree w/ what I say will just tell me to simply refrain from exploiting the things that can make the game easy. That's not the point though. My point is that there weren't many limits placed on you from the get go (Triple Triad has a HUGE part in this). In other FF's there was no way you could get so powerful so fast. So in that regard, FF8 was the EASIEST ff to date hands down. It's both a pro and a con to both people who loved the change in pace from traditional ff battle sytems, and to people who loved the traditional battle system and hated the change of pace respectfully.

When you strategically make certain items/spells/abilities available only at certain parts of the game, you encourage the player to keep playing and get farther and farther into the game to make more and more progress while at the same time maintaining the challenge and potential threat of each and every opponent. FF8 didn't have too much of that though it tried to by allowing opponents to level up with the party. By the end of Disk1 I could already be powerfull enough to take down the last bosses of the game (seriously). There's no real motivation to keep playing if you know that other than to just see the story progress.

But I'm done bashing the battle system. I can't really hold square at fault for that since I remember once reading an article that explained this. Supposedly Square wanted to make the game for both people who just wanted to see the story play out and those who wanted a challenge. I think FF8 did an ok job at accomidating both types of players. It's just that I felt the junction system was both incredibly cheap and made the game incredibly boring as well by limiting magic usage in battle. That's all. I could rant on and on about this ff (that really wasn't so bad despite all my criticism), but I'll stop here.
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Old 2006-02-14, 11:41   Link #35
Eclipze
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemuru
It was balance since spell ddin't inccur any SP/MP cost.

GF were always suppose to be long summon, just people rely too much on it, the only GF worth using are cerubus, Diablo, Carbuncle and Doom train.

Story wise for FFVIII I like the cast and the romance aspect of it, romance wasn't a strong point in the early FF series so FFVIII was unique and special.
You see, it is alot (emphasizing it again, ALOT) easier to replenish mp/sp (I dont remember there being SP in anyFF titles?) than to draw magic.

To replenish MP:
1) Use ether (or turbo ether).
2) Use tents/cottage at safe points.
3) Rest at an inn/bed.
4) Use a spell that drains MP. (Osmose[sp?] in FF X)

To get back a full stock of magic (say, curaga)
1) Draw from a draw-point ---> stupid since it takes time to recharge after just ONE draw.
2) Draw from monsters.
3) Mod cards, which also means it takes time to collect the cards as well.

+ The fact that you take some time (considering all 3 of your chosen chars needing to restock it) to draw a stock of 100.

And guess what? after a few hours, you have to do it again! Wow, I'm so thrilled.

The fact that you cant replenish magic easily in FF VIII is enough of a draw back, and add to the fact that, as Ryuu-Ojdn said, you cant buy low lvl spells, makes it even more ridiculous.

Like, comeon! its called MAGIC, not BULLETS or AMMO. Why the heck can you "lose" the ability to use a spell just because you run out of stock?

Its like saying, I cant pray to god because I've ran out of prayers, so I'll need to extract them from bibles. Like prayers, magic is an ability, not some ammunition or item. Items with magical properties, I can see that it makes sense. Calling that magic is utter bullshit. -_-"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemuru
A greater challenge, i Found myself using status inflicting attack death, sleep, zombie to kill stronger monster. In FFVIII you can level up but only if you have bounse stats ability on GF. Since rare item could only be gotten by killing a high level monster it was neccessary inorder to make the best weapons in the game.

With Thornberry GF you could lvl up or down the monster. The battle system was different compared to other RPG and didn't follow tradition RPG rule "higher lvl equals more strengh". beating the game at lvl 15 was kinda interesting while pulling off 100k damage with squall lion heart.
Challenge? It exists in almost EVERY FF series (RPG for that matter). So the point is...?

Oh, and I found another way to god-mode in FF VII.
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/f...angel_wing.txt
Quote:
-------------------
V. THE METEOR TRICK
-------------------

The Meteor trick is just plain awesome. It is not random like Lion
Heart, and unless KO'd, it is GUARANTEED to work every turn. This
trick works wonders against everything from T-Rex to Omega Weapon.
The great thing about it is, you don't need ultimate weapons, ammo,
special items, a lot of junctioning and whatnot. In fact, all you
need is at least 1 Meteor and a couple of GF abilities. This could
be the easiest way to surpass the 9,999 damage barrier, and is not
to be missed.

And here's how to do it:

Take out ALL of Rinoa's offensive magic EXCEPT Meteor, even if you
only have 1. Make sure you junction protective and/or curative magic
on your defensive stats, so you don't die in one hit. Use Magic
+ 60% or anything else you can find to make Rinoa's magic stat max
out to 255. Also use Auto-haste or anything that enhances speed.

OPTIONAL: If you want, at the start of the battle, cast Meltdown on
your enemy, this will make Meteor much stronger.

Either way, after you've done all of the above, cast Aura on Rinoa
(or if she's in critical condition), and use Angel Wing. If your
speed is high enough, you should be getting several turns EVERY
SECOND. Each time, she will use Meteor. Meteor triggers 10 hits, each
hit damages around 4,000 to 8,000 generally, depending on your enemy,
stats, and/or whether or not Meltdown was casted. But if you've
followed the instructions above, you should be getting 40,000 to
80,000 damage PER METEOR. That means 80,000 to 240,000 HP damage
per second (ATB time, not counting magic casting time and other
possible interruptions). And yes, unless knocked out or inflicted
with certain status effects, it will work EVERY TIME.
No, really. Thats even more sick than KOTR, Omnislash or even Blitzace. Why? Minimum effort to obtain the required components. Just have 1 freaking offensive spell, and you can do like, 800k dmg? Sick.
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Old 2006-02-14, 12:38   Link #36
sayde
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That sounds suspicious. Are you sure each hit of Meteor can break the damage limit? I mean, I thought Zells armageddon fist combo was the most effective method to dishing out damage, but this is much better.
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Old 2006-02-14, 13:01   Link #37
Eclipze
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde
That sounds suspicious. Are you sure each hit of Meteor can break the damage limit? I mean, I thought Zells armageddon fist combo was the most effective method to dishing out damage, but this is much better.
Dont ask me...I've only played disc one (and attained Zell's last weapon no less), and I stopped before the assasination part.

But being a linked guide on GameFaqs, I do believe it is reliable.
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Old 2006-02-14, 13:43   Link #38
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde
That sounds suspicious. Are you sure each hit of Meteor can break the damage limit? I mean, I thought Zells armageddon fist combo was the most effective method to dishing out damage, but this is much better.
The Angel Wing limit break can do serious damage, I've used it against Omega Weapon and the last four battles of the game, all my other characters were basically doing nothing while Rinoa did all the work. It may not give the as much damage as armageddon fist or lion heart, but there's more chances of you attacking before your enemy gets a chance to attack, so the damage really piles up.
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Old 2006-02-14, 13:58   Link #39
Xellos-_^
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Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
You see, it is alot (emphasizing it again, ALOT) easier to replenish mp/sp (I dont remember there being SP in anyFF titles?) than to draw magic.

To replenish MP:
1) Use ether (or turbo ether).
2) Use tents/cottage at safe points.
3) Rest at an inn/bed.
4) Use a spell that drains MP. (Osmose[sp?] in FF X)

To get back a full stock of magic (say, curaga)
1) Draw from a draw-point ---> stupid since it takes time to recharge after just ONE draw.
2) Draw from monsters.
3) Mod cards, which also means it takes time to collect the cards as well.

+ The fact that you take some time (considering all 3 of your chosen chars needing to restock it) to draw a stock of 100.
If you want to play a FF game with magic being hard to recharge. i recommand FF1.

9 max spells per lvl and even lvl 30 you are still not close to maxing out the High spell slots. And the magic in FF1 is really useful, too bad there so little of it availble for use.

In future FF games i would really love to see more emphais on Magic Combat. To many characters in the last few games are melee characters. And attack magic too damn weak.
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Old 2006-02-14, 14:42   Link #40
sayde
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert
The Angel Wing limit break can do serious damage, I've used it against Omega Weapon and the last four battles of the game, all my other characters were basically doing nothing while Rinoa did all the work. It may not give the as much damage as armageddon fist or lion heart, but there's more chances of you attacking before your enemy gets a chance to attack, so the damage really piles up.

Well it does sound plausible. I'll definately give it that much. I'm going to have to try it out one day. btw, Thanks for the intial info on it Eclipze.
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