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Old 2006-03-28, 05:11   Link #101
monster
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanmato91
Its ebacuse yuou got no motivation in the game. You think there just guna say " Lets make Final Fantasy 8 a really easy game" no tehre not, they will make it hard, and its something you have to put up with. If you gota do something, you do something.
What do you mean exactly? I don't think drawing magic is hard at all, it's a pretty easy concept actually, just rather tedious.
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Old 2006-03-28, 07:18   Link #102
Nemuru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
You seriously telling me that, if you were to play all FF titles in japanese (presuming you dont understand the language), you would have a easier time playing VIII than IX? ...I salute you.
The game was easy because onces you have draw 100 spell it was over and finish. By just playing 8 hrs worth of the game your stats becomes complete and you rarely ever need to draw again thus you complete a character quicker than leveling it to 99 for teh same desired stats, while in other FF series you actually had to level killing over and over again is more tedious.

I remember FF IX had the longest game play time before i was completely satisfy with getting all the equipment skills and doing side mini games like frog hunting, choco leveling, treasure map and i still wasn't close to level 90+ after 120hrs even leveling on yam wasn't easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by celcius
And I also disagree with FFVIII being simpler. There's actually a high amount of customizability in FF8, with all the stat bonuses. You can make Squall a mage type and deprave him of Str and Def and pump his Mag and Spi. Junctioning powerful magic to his strength can get his Str back up there, but then you've wasted a powerful magic for that, which could've been on another, more deserving stat. FF8 has got to be one of the easiest FF's to get over 50% of stats at 255 though.
Metero/Triple Strength junction, ultima elemental defence junction, meltdown vit junction, fulll life HP junction, haste speed junction, doom luck junction, mag any junction would do and ect. More like 90% could have been over 200+, there wasn't really much customizing it was rather simple task of balancing, most people probably just over kill some stats for 255 instead of balancing it.
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Old 2006-03-28, 09:02   Link #103
Eclipze
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Fine. You made me go into explaining the layout of both VIII and IX.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steps to increase stats of characters: (VIII)
1) Draw mid-high level spells. Ultima itself will require numerous hours, if you were to draw from the draw point at the village alone.
2) The spells drawn need to be specific as some only work best with a certain stat. (ie. full life works best with hp, ultima works best with most regular stats etc).
3) Learn the respective stats junction skills by training the GFs.
4) Junction the said spells to the stats.
5) Upgrade equipment (weapon).
6) Level up.

Steps to increase stats of characters: (IX)
1) Equip better weapons.
2) Level up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...Still not convinced?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steps to upgrade weapon: (VIII)
1) Find the required books that will tell you about the required materials for making the said weapon.
2) Get the required components/material, either from:
-Playing the card game, and aquire the cards which can be modded into said materials.
*or*
-Fight monsters until they drop them.
3) Get some money, and go to a weapon shop and upgrade.

Steps to upgrade your equipment: (IX)
1) Get money, and buy/synthesise at weapon shops.
2) Find from treasure chests/hidden locations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, I hate to say this, but IX was a no-brainer.
Cant get past a boss? Go level up, buy better equips.
Want to use elemental/black magic? use Vivi, or Steiner + Vivi combo.
Want to steal? use Zidane.
Want to use characters good at physical attacks? use Amarant, Steiner or Zidane. Want healers? Dagger and Miko.
Want summoners? Dagger and Miko.

^^^ You are not required to decide who should be a healer, or summoner, or magic user. It is already decided for you.

...you dont really need to think much playing IX, really. The stats system is basically "old school", no customization can be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemuru
I remember FF IX had the longest game play time before i was completely satisfy with getting all the equipment skills and doing side mini games like frog hunting, choco leveling, treasure map and i still wasn't close to level 90+ after 120hrs even leveling on yam wasn't easy.
On the leveling aspect: Incase you dont know, leveling is relatively fast in IX if you know which monsters to kill. When I had my party at lvl 45, on disc 2, I went to the place with Grand Dragon. Within 1.5-2 hours of training there, I reached lvl 60-65. Killing Grand Dragon is simple: Level 5 death.

...How hard is leveling? Are you telling me that drawing magic, especially at the beginning, doesn't take time?

Spoiler for pointless information:


Lastly, how about one of the player's review regarding the game? (He prefers VIII to IX, btw.)
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/review/R12812.html

Let me quote the parts that justifies what I am trying to say:

Quote:
It is clear that Square went traditional with FF IX. It reminded me of FFVI and I don't find the game comparable with FF VIII because FF VIII has futuristic themes and a junctioning gameplay that has a higher learning curve than FFV, FFVI or FFIX. But all FFs are something worth playing anyways!
Quote:
The gameplay is easier than the FFs I've played. I think the FFVIII is the most sophisticated battle system ever, and after that FFVII. You really don't have to worry too much that you've junctioned wrong magic or wrong materia together--but then that's part of the challenge because the possibilities of better characters become endless!
Quote:
Once you learn the ability, the worry is over. FFIX's gameplay to me, seems to be good for beginner gamers because it's easier to learn. I don't think it challenges me as much as other FFs.
Quote:
People may say that FFVIII is so hyped out and that it's all show. However, the GF junctioning and weapon making altogether make it totally challenging with lots of possibilities. Of course, that is good hype.
If you consider me a anti-FFVIII player, then this fella is a FFVIII fanboy. Hey, this balances my view point, no?

Its simple what Im trying to say: a 12 year old, newbie gamer, will have a much easier time playing FFIX than FFVIII. Its basically a "traditional tribute" to the older titles, where the gameplay is just typical and straight-forward. There isn't much "possibilities" you can achieve in IX, making even more linear.
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Old 2006-03-28, 14:42   Link #104
Dorfl
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Some people seemed to have missed the point here, so I'll repeat it: You don't have to draw. Unless you enjoy that sort of thing, of course, which I do on occasion. This one time I beat Cerberus almost to death, then cured him back to full health just so I could keep drawing Pain from him (was it Pain?).

About the point made about FFIX being good for beginner players, I used to think so because the gameplay is by far the easiest of all the FFs (IMHO), but the story assumes at least a familiarity with RPG cliches and genres. I tried to teach my sister how to play RPGs with it and she could never figure out where to go and what to do because they wouldn't tell her. FFVIII on the other hand always tells you "Meet me In the Training Center after dark so we can go to The Secret Place which is Right inside the Center." If the easy gameplay of FFIX could be combined with the linearity of FFVIII, I think we'd have the perfect starter RPG.
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Old 2006-03-28, 17:12   Link #105
Corn
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Honestly I also think FF8 and FF10 are the most misunderstood and hated because of that. I find does two installments much more interesting than FF7 and FF9 which were more traditional and simply couldn't keep up with their older peers like Chrono Trigger and FF4.
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Old 2006-03-28, 18:42   Link #106
celcius
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I go to great lengths NOT to level up, and in the occasion that I do, I would make sure that the no 2 people would level up at the same time since I only have one set of stat bonuses. When I have Cactuar King, then I can allow two people to level up the same time. I don't think that considers me as lazy or no motivation... I also got a full set of auto-protects, just so my chars had the cute "bwing!" sound whenever I get hit :rollseyes:
Quote:
Metero/Triple Strength junction, ultima elemental defence junction, meltdown vit junction, fulll life HP junction, haste speed junction, doom luck junction, mag any junction would do and ect. More like 90% could have been over 200+, there wasn't really much customizing it was rather simple task of balancing, most people probably just over kill some stats for 255 instead of balancing it.
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My memory is abit fuzzy but I think Triple and double give higher bonuses to speed. Haste is sufficient for spd though. Most of my chars already had 9999 HP with only Curaga, leaving full-life and life for stat-def. The rest I think are just about right. Can't really remember what I did though... It's been such a long time.
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Old 2006-03-28, 19:44   Link #107
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfl
About the point made about FFIX being good for beginner players, I used to think so because the gameplay is by far the easiest of all the FFs (IMHO), but the story assumes at least a familiarity with RPG cliches and genres. I tried to teach my sister how to play RPGs with it and she could never figure out where to go and what to do because they wouldn't tell her. FFVIII on the other hand always tells you "Meet me In the Training Center after dark so we can go to The Secret Place which is Right inside the Center." If the easy gameplay of FFIX could be combined with the linearity of FFVIII, I think we'd have the perfect starter RPG.
Does your sister like to explore? Personally, I think having the freedom to explore is just the most important element in learning how to play rpg. Sure, you may get lost once in a while, but the only problem with getting lost is if you're in the world map or any place where you may encounter random battles. And, at least in IX, there's the exclamation points to help you along.

Anyways, I think VIII tells you a lot because you can miss a lot of necessary things if you don't go to certain places in a certain order. An example is if you didn't check out your desk first before going out into the world map and on to fighting Ifrit.
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Old 2006-03-28, 23:16   Link #108
Eclipze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfl
Some people seemed to have missed the point here, so I'll repeat it: You don't have to draw.
Yes....and no.

I seriously doubt that you are able to survive, at the beginning of the game, without ANY magic. Yea sure, play card games, and mod cards for magic. But....is a newbie suppose to know which items to mod for lightning magic, or how to effectively play card games in the beginning?

For a newbie, drawing magic, in the beginning of the game, is a MUST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfl
FFVIII on the other hand always tells you "Meet me In the Training Center after dark so we can go to The Secret Place which is Right inside the Center." If the easy gameplay of FFIX could be combined with the linearity of FFVIII, I think we'd have the perfect starter RPG.
Um, I believe they DO tell, but they dont emphasise on the location to go, nor explicitly tell you HOW to get there. But yes, they do mention the "next location" in the text conversations.

Also, I believe the heavy emphasis on the "next destination" in FFVIII only exists in the early parts of the game, as I clearly dont remember having such privilage of being told the exact location to reach once I got out the the Garden.

The whole point about the "beginners" part is that, they dont need to have knowledge about the game's systems to master it. Getting stronger is leveling and upgrading weapons. Using magic was with Vivi, Dagger, Eiko. Using physical attacks was with Zidane, Steiner and Amarant.

FFIX is the least "customizable" FFs out of the 3D FF titles, and definately requires less thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corn
and FF10 are the most misunderstood and hated because of that
FF10 was...hated?

Also, for me at least, the thing I hated about X was its side-quests. Dodging lightning 200 times....fun. Killing every monster 10 times while equiping some "capturing" weapon...fun. Doing "chocobo training" when you only get to ride them at 2 locations, and that the training doesn't even give extra abilities to the said chocobos...fun. Killing Dark Aeons that basically require you to have at least 200 per stat (thus, spending countless hours to customize the grid sphere with aquired stat sphere)...fun.

Blitzball? Oh, just get Tidus to lvl 99, and at the start of every match, use "shoot" a few times...
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Old 2006-03-29, 00:51   Link #109
fict_ticious
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Quote:
FFIX is the least "customizable" FFs out of the 3D FF titles, and definately requires less thinking.
Least customizable and flexible, IMO. FFIX would probably be the least flexible, since you only needed said number of ability points and allocate them accordingly. Pretty clean cut, probably not as creative as the junction system a la FFVIII. I'd always be in a dilemma of what GFs to equip and what spells I would junction to sacrifice use in battle (for me, it was always Aura, Meltdown, Ultima, or Shell). I had many sleepless nights because of it . It was definitely more flexible, since I could pass around abilities and no one character had a predefined set of abilities.

As for draw and not draw, first thing I taught my younger sister was to junction sleep and draw. After a couple battles, she picked up on it, and had something like 100 of each of the basic spells outta the garden. She hasn't touched any other RPG, since the only reason she played was the appeal of the storyline. So, yeah, you probably don't need to draw, but I recommend going for the ???? spells to help diversify yourself when you get the hang of the system.

Ooo, far too long. I would be annoyed to have read this.
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Old 2006-03-29, 03:30   Link #110
Dorfl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Yes....and no.

I seriously doubt that you are able to survive, at the beginning of the game, without ANY magic. Yea sure, play card games, and mod cards for magic. But....is a newbie suppose to know which items to mod for lightning magic, or how to effectively play card games in the beginning?

For a newbie, drawing magic, in the beginning of the game, is a MUST.
Point about newbies partially conceded. It's perfectly possible, albeit challenging, to survive without magic at the beginning of the game, but the complete and utter newbie might indeed prefer to play it safe and stock up by drawing. I wouldn't call it a MUST, but I'd say it's highly preferable for those unfamiliar with the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Um, I believe they DO tell, but they dont emphasise on the location to go, nor explicitly tell you HOW to get there. But yes, they do mention the "next location" in the text conversations.

Also, I believe the heavy emphasis on the "next destination" in FFVIII only exists in the early parts of the game, as I clearly dont remember having such privilage of being told the exact location to reach once I got out the the Garden.
They do emphasize it, with prominent blue or yellow text and square brackets. I'd take a screenshot, but if I start playing now I'll be trapped till next week. I clearly remember it from the entirety of disc one, especially in Galbadia before the sorceress mission where everyone you talked to would say "So you want to go to Caraway's Mansion, do you?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
The whole point about the "beginners" part is that, they dont need to have knowledge about the game's systems to master it. Getting stronger is leveling and upgrading weapons. Using magic was with Vivi, Dagger, Eiko. Using physical attacks was with Zidane, Steiner and Amarant.

FFIX is the least "customizable" FFs out of the 3D FF titles, and definately requires less thinking.
My point exactly. FFIX is best for beginners in terms of ease of gameplay. There's nothing much to do, just equip your items and fight normally. You learn skills and level up easily and the most you have to do is change items as skills are learned and assign the support skills. The gameplay is easy, but the story progression is not easy for someone who's never played an RPG before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert
Does your sister like to explore? Personally, I think having the freedom to explore is just the most important element in learning how to play rpg. Sure, you may get lost once in a while, but the only problem with getting lost is if you're in the world map or any place where you may encounter random battles. And, at least in IX, there's the exclamation points to help you along.
I know I certainly love exploring in RPGs, but she hated the fact that she never knew where to go or what to do or who to talk to to make the story move forward. For example, in the beginning they plop you down in Alexandria with Vivi and leave you to your own devices. She wandered around for 30 minutes talking to people and nothing was happening, so I helped her along, "Try that ticket booth." "Okay, the ticket's fake, where do I go now?" "Oh you'll figure it out." Walks around... "Try going down the alleyway." "Why?" "Just do it." Meets Puck. "Follow him." "Why?" "Because the story won't move forward otherwise." "How do you know that?" "Just do it." "Whyyyy?"
Yeah, she's a piece of work alright.
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Old 2006-03-29, 04:03   Link #111
NoSanninWa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfl
"Try going down the alleyway." "Why?" "Just do it." Meets Puck. "Follow him." "Why?" "Because the story won't move forward otherwise." "How do you know that?" "Just do it." "Whyyyy?"
Yeah, she's a piece of work alright.
She's quite right though. Why should you have to follow someone you meet in an alley? It is obvious to any long-time player of RPGs to follow someone if you see them travel, but there isn't any reason for a newbie to assume it is significant.

Quite frankly, it is the game that is being stupid, not her... though you probably realize that. I resent though, that a game I like was so stupid about telling you how to play it. If a game is going to be so vauge about telling you how to advance the plot, then it had best not be so linear. At least Final Fantasy VIII is more obvious about being linear so that you don't ever think you should be wandering around. Of course people don't like to feel that they're playing a linear game which is why FFX was so unpopular. Having a single trail to follow through the world felt more linear than being able to wander in any direction. Of course in any game where you can wander in any direction you get stopped by the unpassable mountains that you can't cross until you reach the right part of the plot. FF7 was no less linear, FFX was simply honest about being linear.

Gah. This belongs in a thread about game theory, not a thread about Final Fantasy VIII.
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Old 2006-03-29, 05:30   Link #112
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Oh well, I liked FF8 better than FF7 I liked everything of FF8 better than FF7, not to say FFVII was not great, but I liked VIII better I wasn't bothered with the combat and GF system, I thought it was nice. I thought the characters and the story were nice. Damn, I thought everything was nice
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Old 2006-03-29, 05:31   Link #113
celcius
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Anyway, these CRPGs were derived from paper-based RPG's, so it's pretty normal that it shouldn't be very linear. The traditional paper-and-dice based RPG's only bound you by your imagination. (If I say I wanna dance with a chicken suit in an attempt to persuade someone, I can).
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Old 2006-03-29, 05:39   Link #114
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celcius
Anyway, these CRPGs were derived from paper-based RPG's, so it's pretty normal that it shouldn't be very linear. The traditional paper-and-dice based RPG's only bound you by your imagination. (If I say I wanna dance with a chicken suit in an attempt to persuade someone, I can).
That's the magic of pen-and-paper RPGs, you can do whatever you want. And that's why I still love DaggerFall. It was huge and I could do whatever idiocy I wanted (like walking -with the speed cheat enabled- from the Wrothgarian-or-whatwasit Mountains to the City of Daggerfall and all sorts of things). But nothing beats a good DM and a company of friends who know how to enjoy the game.

The only gripe I have against FFVIII is that most of the time, no matter how I answered, the outcome was the same.
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Old 2010-07-07, 00:59   Link #115
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I've said it in other threads and forums, FINAL FANTASY VIII is my favorite of them all... even though I hated the gameplay and Rinoa. FFVIII could've been the greatest game ever if it wasn't for those two factors. What made me fall in love with FFVIII is mostly it's setting. The game was more sci-fi than fantasy. Oh ! and those towns and cities, I was in awe. Here are my favorites in order :

1) Esthar (imagine a PS3 remake of that futuristic city...).

2) Winhill (a small, peaceful and beautiful village surrounded by nature, no technology there... I love it).

3) Deling City (the design of the city is heavily influenced by the city of Paris, France, according to Tetsuya Nomura).

4) Balamb (the view from the hotel... enough said).

Fisherman's Horizon is a worthy mention, but I like those 4 up there better.

_________________________________

I even made better looking FF8 menus, yes I'm that obsessed, for my PS3 wallpapers :







A remake of this game... would be a dream come true.

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Old 2010-07-07, 03:58   Link #116
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Originally Posted by SvenCalBayan View Post
I've said it in other threads and forums, FINAL FANTASY VIII is my favorite of them all... even though I hated the gameplay and Rinoa.
I loved the gameplay actually, once I got the hang of it. You can make the game as easy or as hard as you like with just a few tweaks, and you don't have to grind for anything unless you want to.

Rinoa though, I've played the game at least five times and I still don't like her. I don't like Irvine and Cid either, but at least they don't actively get in my way at every turn. What did Squall ever see in her?
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Old 2010-07-07, 04:05   Link #117
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Zell's limit break is awesome fun to use
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Old 2010-07-07, 11:56   Link #118
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I think Squall was the only good character in that game. He was exceptionally well designed and developed throughout the game. Xell is kind of a rare character type in FFs, I think Wakka would come closest to him, but he is still not that hot-headed and aggressive, so Xell was fine, too. The rest however, Irvine, Rinoa, Quistis and especially Selphie, were boring as hell. Well at least Quistis and Rinoa were hot.

Gameplaywise, FFVIII wasn't especially good either. Yeah you're all right in saying that you don't have to draw, but the thing is, without it, you're much weaker. I know there was another method of gaining spells, I think it had something to do with the cards (it's been to long), which was a nice alternative of getting your stats up. However the thing that ruined the draw system for me, was that whenever you use a spell, your stats decrease, permantly, until you restock. So you're basically walking through the game without ever using a spell. At least that's how I did it.

However, I do give Square credit for trying something new. I liked how the G.F.s were junctionable with the characters, and I thought that getting all the incrediants to craft the best weapons was fun, and so was the card game. So gameplaywise it wasn't all that bad for me, just the core system was a little meh in my opinion.

The story itself while being solid isn't as good as those in other entries of the series, and sometimes completely ridiculous and unprobable things happen just for convenience, like a goofbal like Laguna becoming president or a spaceship suddenly appearing in space right before Rinoa and Squall run out of air.
However, as mentioned before I really liked Squalls character development. I thought that this was a prime example of how things like that are done.

I guess I don't have to say anything about music...awesome as usual.
Eyes on Me, Liberi Fatali, Trust Me, Succesion of Witches and much more make for one of the best OSTs of the series, topped only by X and VI, imo.

Wow, that post almost turned out like a mini review, might as well rate the game now. xD

technical: 5/5
artistic: 4/5
gameplay: 8/10
total: 8.5/10

That's how I do my reviews on Youtube. I've tried a lot of different rating systems, and found that to be best.
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Old 2010-07-07, 16:20   Link #119
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FF8 is not the worst Final Fantasy title by far (no, that dubious distinction goes to Final Fantasy X-2), but it's far from the best.

Like FF7, FF8 was hamstrung by a Blind Idiot Translation, but unlike FF7's unintentionally hilarious translation, FF8's is merely ridiculous, confusing and baffling. The Japanese script makes a lot more sense than the English one.

Characterwise the group is just your bog-standard post-FF7 band-o-weirdos that make up any modern Final Fantasy cast. I disagree with the above poster saying that Squall is the best and most well-developed character in the game. None of the characters in FF8 developed and most were terribly two-dimensional. Most also acted like they were suffering crippling mental diseases as well, but that's beside the point.

What Square was attempting to do was telling a coming-of-age story told through the eyes of child soldiers. What we got instead was a bunch of people acting like morons and causing almost all the problems they were tasked to solve. There's not just one Idiot Ball in FF8; Square issued one to the entire fucking cast. It's not Plot Induced Stupidity, it's Stupidity Induced Plot.

The gameplay was a mess. The magic system was tedious and annoying. The combat mechanics were ridiculously easy to break the entire game, rendering the whole thing superfluous and removing any sense of urgency or danger. Once you stocked up on the important spells, combat devolved into a simple sequence of:

a) cast Meltdown on the monster
b) cast Aura on Squall
c) spam Renzokuken until it dies

It's like you didn't even have other party members. I could care less who I took with Squall, because all they did was cast Meltdown and Aura and occasionally heal or use items. FF8 is one of a very small handful of party-based RPGs I've played where your main character is several orders of magnitude more powerful than your party members.

(The other one that instantly comes to mind is Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, in which the Exile is so ridiculously overpowered through bonus feats and Force Point increases that when you're stuck playing Mira alone, it feels like the game just got ten times harder...)

What was FF8 good at, if anything? Well, the production values were good, and it was definitely one of the better-looking PSX games for the time. I really did appreciate how it was a very hard departure away from the Popeye-arms and merging bodies of the previous title. The background art was very well-done and the character design was some of Nomura's best work (until Dissidia, anyway), but I still hold him responsible for the retarded abomination that is a gunblade.

Anyway, FF8 is definitely a bad game, but it's not a horrible game, and I do still play it from time to time (though usually only when doing a FF marathon).

Story: 2/5 - It'd get a one if it weren't for the translation being half of the problem.
Characters: 1/5 - Bog-standard Japanese-fantasy band-o-weirdos with one-dimensional personalities.
Graphics: 4/5 - Definitely one of the prettier PSX titles from its era.
Design: 2/5 - The art and character designs were great, but the level of stupid of the gunblade is just facepalmy.
Music: 1/5 - Boring, boring, boring, and all based on a bad pop ballad by a worse Chinese idol singer. Uematsu, you can (and have) done better!
Gameplay: 1/5 - Worst combat system ever. Extremely poor magic system (what the hell's wrong with MP?!) Incredibly easy to become gamebreakingly powerful. Difficulty? What difficulty?

11/35. Pretty bad, but not the worst.

EDIT: I hate you all who keep raising zombie threads and then I inevitably end up posting in them.
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Old 2010-07-07, 16:55   Link #120
ZGoten
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^Wow, I thought I was pretty harsh, but you completey tore the game apart.^^
You better get ready for some "feedback".
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