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Old 2006-02-16, 02:11   Link #1
eLcHaKeTeRo
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Birth, Aging and Death In Soul Society

I was wondering this way before too but i never really thought if anyone had any theories about aging in SS.

How old would SouTaichou-Yamamoto be? I wonder at what kind or rate they age if any at all. If anybody would please indulge me and give me your opinions...


side note: if there is already another thread like this im really sorry, but i saw Nosanninwa's post on another thread and I took it upon my self to make this one.
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Old 2006-02-16, 02:26   Link #2
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There was a thread like this before the recent forum reset, but since it was killed, I suppose it was inevitable that this would need to be recreated eventually.

We've seen many flashbacks of various shinigami who clearly appeared to be younger in the past. Based on this evidence it seems clear that they have aged. My personal belief, based on the many little things we've seen is that only people with spirit power age in Soul Society. Since only people with spirit power get hungry, it seems likely that this would follow as well.

That then leads us to ask if they can die of old age... I'd say that seems unlikely. We were told that Rukia is 200 years old, but she still looks like a high school girl. That makes us wonder if it took 200 years for her to age an apparent 15 years. The head of the Gotei 13, Yamamoto Genryuusai, is an ancient geezer, but we don't know if he was that age when he died. He might have became a geezer gradually, over the course of 1000 years. If they get older, will they keep aging until they die, or will they stop aging before they die?

Personally, my unsupported and unproven belief, is that each person ages as suits their personality. Their spirit power will cause them to age to meet their perception of their self. As someone learns and grows, they start to think of themselves as an older person. Responding to this, their bodies grow older as well. Someone who is completely irresponsible, like Yachiru, will stay the age of a child, while someone whose sense of responsibility lies heavy on his shoulders, like old man Yamamoto, will become a geezer.

I can't prove that I am right, but at least it doesn't seem to contradict the scanty evidence. Now everyone else can share their opinions and pet theories.
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Old 2006-02-16, 02:52   Link #3
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Arg. This is the same as it was debating on DBZ power levels. There isnt any reason why you should ask youself these questions. Seriously. This is an anime after all. An artistic interpretation of reality. Not a science for god sake. Not real life, something better. ^^ I guess you need to know more then Bleach in general anime knowledge to realise that this subject is pointless.

Still, I approve NSW's theory. So I doubt there is more to add to this thread.
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Old 2006-02-16, 02:53   Link #4
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You do bring up a good point about them having to eat because of their use of reiatsu, I never really had made that type of connection......but, Renji, Rukia, and others were kids once and i dont think that they had any significant traces of reiatsu. But it could also be in conjuction with other variables. Im not trying to discredit you, but Im just tryin to be argumentative in order for me to understand this alittle better. But I do think that you do have the right idea, it would be neat to see Yama-ji in a flashback of his youth.

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Originally Posted by JOJO'SSTAR
Arg. This the same as it was debating on DBZ power levels. There isnt any reason why you should ask youself these questions. Seriously. This is an anime after all. An artistic interpretation of reality. Not a science for god sake. Not real life, something better. ^^ I guess you need to know more then Bleach in general anime knowledge to realise that this subject is pointless.
I do realize that this is an anime show. I dont devote my time to fabricate crazy speculations about random BLEACH topics. You have to realize that for every question there is an answer, and you don't necessarily have to like or accept it. I think that if you dont want to be involved in a certain discussion you dont have to be.
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Old 2006-02-16, 05:06   Link #5
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Originally Posted by The Small One
My theory was always, that only those "born" in Soul Society age. At least it's clear, that those individual HAVE to age, because since they were born there, they would stay infants otherwise.
You do realize that there is no evidence that anyone is born in Soul Society. I believe that, like the parakeet boy, everyone simply appears there at the age they died at.

Rukia, Renji and others were all shown at a younger age. Does this mean you believe that they were born in Soul Society without memories of dying on earth?
Spoiler for Rukia:
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Old 2006-02-16, 05:58   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
You do realize that there is no evidence that anyone is born in Soul Society. I believe that, like the parakeet boy, everyone simply appears there at the age they died at.

Rukia, Renji and others were all shown at a younger age. Does this mean you believe that they were born in Soul Society without memories of dying on earth?
Spoiler for Rukia:
which chapter? I know its kinda off-topic sorry, I'm just very intrigued.

Yeah as he mentioned before me, if you know of some one that was born there please site the character.
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Old 2006-02-16, 06:23   Link #7
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Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
You do realize that there is no evidence that anyone is born in Soul Society.
Erm....wasn't Byakuya born in SS? As was Yoruichi? They're members of the SS royal family and are said to be born with a large reiatsu
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Old 2006-02-16, 06:40   Link #8
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
You do realize that there is no evidence that anyone is born in Soul Society. I believe that, like the parakeet boy, everyone simply appears there at the age they died at.

Then you're not up to date.
It was written in the thread about the character data book: It says, that nobles are born inside the seireitai. So there definately are souls, that are born into soul society!


Quote:
Rukia, Renji and others were all shown at a younger age. Does this mean you believe that they were born in Soul Society without memories of dying on earth?

Maybe... maybe not. It's also possible, that only those don't age, that were sent to soul society.
We don't really have this much information on this matter, but we know, that it's possible for souls to get born into Soul Society, and like I already wrote: Those individuals have to age.
wow, i feel stupid, i forgot all about that...heh...good call
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Old 2006-02-16, 06:55   Link #9
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Originally Posted by The Small One
Then you're not up to date.
It was written in the thread about the character data book: It says, that nobles are born inside the seireitai. So there definately are souls, that are born into soul society!
We interpret the word born differently in this context. You cannot say with certainty that they aren't saying "born" to describe a dead person appearing in Soul Society.

Of course, I cannot say with any certainty that I am correct either. I only hope we learn more about this someday.
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Old 2006-02-16, 08:00   Link #10
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The nobles themselves are born in Soul Society without ever having a life in the Living World and experience dying to arrive in Soul Society, hence the area where they reside is the Court of "Pure Souls".

When these pure souls do get "killed" or when their time is up (we know it's possible, because take Byakuya for example, he is the 13th Head of his Clan, meaning the previous 12 are probably "dead", Byakuya is even seen visiting his parents "graves"). These pure souls probably follow the soul balance rule and incarnate as humans in the Living World (not RE-incarnate, since they've never been living humans before ).

The Kuchiki clan were frowning when Byakuya married Hisana, a girl who came from Rukongai, as they feel the marriage would sully the purity of their clan. They were in an uproar when Byakuya decided to adopt Rukia.

But I also speculate that there are also some souls that are born in Rukongai, when I mean "born", I don't mean they used to be humans in the Living World. There could be two people who used to be humans in the Living World, after they died and come into Soul Society, the two met and decide to marry and have kids, until their time is up for reincarnation back into the Living World.
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Old 2006-02-16, 17:08   Link #11
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Originally Posted by The Small One
Maybe... however I think it's usually safe to assume, they mean "born", when they say "born".
I would think that also, except that they need a word for "comes into the world without anyone becoming pregnant." Since we don't have a word for that, I might say that dead people are born into soul society. Or do you have a better word for it?

What word would you choose that is better than "born"? And even if you can think of another word, is "born" necesssarily wrong?
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Old 2006-02-16, 18:28   Link #12
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conceive...
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Old 2006-02-16, 18:47   Link #13
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Conceive : Become pregnant; undergo conception

I thought about this when reading the manga, but gave up speculating... *sigh*
Also, is it at all possible to contact Kubo Tite, especially when it's an entire forum seeking his attention? ^^
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Old 2006-02-16, 19:07   Link #14
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Originally Posted by Morisato
conceive...
"Maybe... however I think it's usually safe to assume, they mean 'conceive,' when they say 'conceive.' "
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Old 2006-02-16, 19:09   Link #15
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If we do find out, will anything be any better? Just enjoy Bleach and dont ask more than already provided. That's my modal.
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Old 2006-02-16, 19:45   Link #16
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I thought it went like this:

You are born as a human, age and die.
You goto Soul Society and live there, age and die
Move back to the human world and the cycle continues.

Hollows I thought would have been a branch in this cycle in other words a leakage or something like that.

As for shinigami, I assumed that you age more slowly depending on your spirit power.
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Old 2006-02-16, 19:51   Link #17
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Originally Posted by The Small One
Then you're not up to date.
It was written in the thread about the character data book: It says, that nobles are born inside the seireitai. So there definately are souls, that are born into soul society!have to age.
Yea, if your born in "heaven" then your considered a noble
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Old 2006-02-16, 22:02   Link #18
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I have created a monster.

There are alot of acceptable theories here. It would make sence if that whole circle thing was the answer. But, maybe everyone in soul society age slower, and maybe it does depend how strong the reiatsu of the individual. Yama-ji for example; he's so freaking old and yet he has a massive reiatsu. Yeah, I think that im goin to adapt that to my own theory, also what NSW said before about consumables and the possible link that it has to reiatsu and longevity.
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Old 2006-02-17, 05:57   Link #19
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Many good questions have been raised here. I think that occasional recreational reproduction can result in offspring. They can bleed and die as if they are "living", they can also nourish them selves. So as a result they must be able to reproduce like all living things, because ofcourse this characterizes all living things.
And yes I am aware of how most of the souls arive in SS, through soul burrials.
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Old 2006-02-17, 06:32   Link #20
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Well, personally I would consider "born" wrong... maybe "reborn", but not "born". But that's just my opinion. I'd definately say "appear", since that is what happens: The souls simply appear inside of Soul Society, including their outer appearance and all the memories.
In the process of thinking about what terminology you'd use, I hope that you've thought about the fact that we'd have to invent a new use for words to express "birth" into Soul Society. Perhaps birth means the same thing in SS, that it does on Earth. My only point is that we can't know that for sure.

And we don't even know if they just "appear" as you so carelessly assume. Perhaps they crawl out of holes in the ground, transforming their bodies from mud. Maybe jigoku cho, the "hell butterflies" enter Soul Society and transform into the newly arrived soul. You assume an awful lot, without realizing that these are just assumptions. We know almost nothing about birth in Soul Society, little about aging, and just a little bit more of death.
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