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Old 2006-02-28, 09:35   Link #41
ILikeSquiReLz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
Itachi did not say that, he said that only another Uchiha With the same ability as him could beat him.
I didn't say who said it as I couldn't recall who this came from. but I'm willing to place 89% that this has been mentioned more than once.
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Old 2006-02-28, 09:40   Link #42
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeSquiReLz
I didn't say who said it as I couldn't recall who this came from. but I'm willing to place 89% that this has been mentioned more than once.
Only Itachi has spoke about MS with details; the only other persons that said something about MS came from Sasuke's Father and Recently from Kakashi. who did not say anything about only UChiha could gain it.

I mentioned Itachi because that quote I mentioned is the one that tends to make people believe someone mentioned that Only Uchihas could gain the MS.
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Old 2006-02-28, 09:52   Link #43
ILikeSquiReLz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
Only Itachi has spoke about MS with details; the only other persons that said something about MS came from Sasuke's Father and Recently from Kakashi. who did not say anything about only UChiha could gain it.

I mentioned Itachi because that quote I mentioned is the one that tends to make people believe someone mentioned that Only Uchihas could gain the MS.

I could be wrongly miss lead..... I'll leave it to someone like you..... to correct me. As I see no shame in having you correct me. Maybe a bad example to use but I'm sure you got my main point.
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Old 2006-02-28, 10:12   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
Itachi did not say that, he said that only another Uchiha With the same ability as him could beat him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itachi Uchiha
Only a sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me.
That was his sentence. Guessing this was about Mangekyou I still wonder how Kakashi got it.
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Old 2006-02-28, 10:19   Link #45
Rurik
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Originally Posted by ri0
That was his sentence. Guessing this was about Mangekyou I still wonder how Kakashi got it.
As matter of fact this is the sentence that creates the confusion, which in no way state "Only an Uchiha can gain the MS" Rather than is implying "Only and Uchiha with MS can defeat me" this are two different things, but either way, Itachi was surprised that Kakashi could have gain the MS.

And to this point, Itachi sentence is true, Kakashi current form, is not match for Itachi.
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Old 2006-02-28, 12:32   Link #46
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Yeah Itachi's surprise which indicated in my eyes that he meant MS back then... But as we all know he wasn't right for some reason.
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Old 2006-02-28, 12:40   Link #47
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Originally Posted by ri0
Yeah Itachi's surprise which indicated in my eyes that he meant MS back then... But as we all know he wasn't right for some reason.
Again, Itachi meant MS in order for someone to beat him, He was not saying that Only The Uchihas was the ones capable of Gaining the MS, besides Itachi could have been Surprised more because of the means required to get MS, rather than having the MS itself.
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Old 2006-02-28, 12:52   Link #48
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I don't think Itachi had interests in Kakashi friendships so who knows... He could have meant both possibilities but after Kakashi showing off I think he meant the "defeat"-solution.
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Old 2006-02-28, 14:13   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0
I don't think Itachi had interests in Kakashi friendships so who knows... He could have meant both possibilities but after Kakashi showing off I think he meant the "defeat"-solution.
I would not find strange the he could have been surprised that Kakashi could be a type of shinoby that goes on to Kill a close friend in order to gain something.
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Old 2006-02-28, 14:13   Link #50
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
Again, Itachi meant MS in order for someone to beat him, He was not saying that Only The Uchihas was the ones capable of Gaining the MS, besides Itachi could have been Surprised more because of the means required to get MS, rather than having the MS itself.
I think that its not unreasonable to assume itachi was saying only the Uchihas were capable of it besides only Uchihas (in gen.) have the sharingan and from there only 3 (if Sasuke) gets it have the ability to have MS.

I think its pretty clear that Itachi would be surprised by both things that Kakashi has the MS - think about it Itachi isn't gonna be like 'I knew you could get it I'm just surprised by the means...- and that he was able to attain it.

Heck all the reader's were "surprised" when Kakashi got it *P
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Old 2006-02-28, 14:22   Link #51
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha
I think that its not unreasonable to assume itachi was saying only the Uchihas were capable of it besides only Uchihas (in gen.) have the sharingan and from there only 3 (if Sasuke) gets it have the ability to have MS.

I think its pretty clear that Itachi would be surprised by both things that Kakashi has the MS - think about it Itachi isn't gonna be like 'I knew you could get it I'm just surprised by the means...- and that he was able to attain it.
In fact this is just a sentence that can be easily break down, He said “ if you reach this, Including you there well be 3 people that has MS” In that moment he was referring that if Sasuke gain the MS, he will be in an already existing group, this sentence does not say that MS is something exclusive to the Uchiha’s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha
Heck all the reader's were "surprised" when Kakashi got it *P
Don’t generalize, I was not surprised, after seen Kakashi Gaiden I was expecting Kakashi to be able to show off the MS.
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Old 2006-02-28, 14:35   Link #52
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
In fact this is just a sentence that can be easily break down, He said “ if you reach this, Including you there well be 3 people that has MS” In that moment he was referring that if Sasuke gain the MS, he will be in an already existing group, this sentence does not say that MS is something exclusive to the Uchiha’s.



Don’t generalize, I was not surprised, after seen Kakashi Gaiden I was expecting Kakashi to be able to show off the MS.

Good for you Rurik! if you noticed i have quotes around "surprised."

So I guess you want all of us to believe the infamous "3 MS ppl" statement Itachi was thinking "yea but they don't have to be uchihas" when he said to kakashi "I'm surprised that you can use your sharingan so well"?

Yes, I agree that the statement Itachi says does not explicitly limit it to Uchihas. But, to say that it is MORE reasonable to believe that he left it open to non-Uchihas is another story. If you are saying it is possible that Itachi wasn't limiting to just Uchihas would be harder to argue against (if that is your case then I wouldn't disagree [as much that is ]). Ur right he might have been refering to someone else who got sharingans like Kakashi, but I think that it is just SAFER to assume and I really think it is more consistent w/ all his other statements and reactions.

PS - Who is that in your avatar Pic??? I can't figure it out!!!
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Old 2006-02-28, 14:54   Link #53
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha
So I guess you want all of us to believe the infamous "3 MS ppl" statement Itachi was thinking "yea but they don't have to be uchihas" when he said to kakashi "I'm surprised that you can use your sharingan so well"? !!!
I don’t expect anything to be honest; I‘m just saying that there is no part where of Someone Said “Only an Uchiha Can Gain the MS”, Possibilities can be countless, Maybe I like more my opinion about it, like this, it does not create a contradiction inside the Series.

And Because Itachi was surprised that Kakashi could use that well the Sharingan does not means he tough only Uchihas can Gain MS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha
Yes, I agree that the statement Itachi says does not explicitly limit it to Uchihas. But, to say that it is MORE reasonable to believe that he left it open to non-Uchihas is another story. If you are saying it is possible that Itachi wasn't limiting to just Uchihas would be harder to argue against (if that is your case then I wouldn't disagree [as much that is ]). Ur right he might have been refering to someone else who got sharingans like Kakashi, but I think that it is just SAFER to assume and I really think it is more consistent w/ all his other statements and reactions.
Why not? I mean, they are still things we don’t know about Kakashi MS, So they could be plenty of reason for Itachi’s surprise, and this is assuming that Itachi was referring to MS back then, His Quote was “You couldn’t have…”

Either way, Maybe Itachi tough that only Uchiha’s could reach the MS, but the point of my first Quote was merely to correct Squierlz on the Quote he mentioned. I was not expecting it to grow so big and healthy!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha
PS - Who is that in your avatar Pic??? I can't figure it out!!!
Kurapika from an Series Called Hunter X Hunter
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Old 2006-02-28, 15:06   Link #54
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I thought that when he said that to Sasuke he was implying that he [Itachi] was the second person to be able to use it in the history of the Uchiha clan, and so if Sasuke were able to develop MS then he would be the third person to do so.

1st known MS user was the person who orginally discovered the technique (probably long dead) and wrote it down on the scroll that Itachi followed.
2nd known MS user was Itachi.
Now Itachi says that if Sasuke were to develop MS at this point in time then he would be the 3rd person to do so, however...
3rd known MS user is Kakashi so there are now 2 MS users currently alive (if we assume the very first is long dead).
So if Sasuke were to develop MS now then he would be the 4th person to do so because Kakashi developed it before him but after Itachi, Itachi wouldn't have known that Kakashi would develop MS. I believe that when Itachi was talking to Sasuke he was the only currently living MS user but the 2nd person to develop MS overall.

BTW don't you have to kill your best friend to develop MS? How did Kakashi develop it? Itachi may be surprised because he would never have expected Kakashi to go to such lengths, maybe there is a loophole?
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Old 2006-02-28, 15:09   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Nin.
BTW don't you have to kill your best friend to develop MS? How did Kakashi develop it? Itachi may be surprised because he would never have expected Kakashi to go to such lengths, maybe there is a loophole?
That was one of the incorrect assumptions used by the great Uchihas.
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Old 2006-02-28, 15:09   Link #56
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Nin.
I thought that when he said that to Sasuke he was implying that he [Itachi] was the second person to be able to use it in the history of the Uchiha clan, and so if Sasuke were able to develop MS then he would be the third person to do so.

1st known MS user was the person who orginally discovered the technique (probably long dead) and wrote it down on the scroll that Itachi followed.
2nd known MS user was Itachi.
Now Itachi says that if Sasuke were to develop MS at this point in time then he would be the 3rd person to do so, however...
3rd known MS user is Kakashi so there are now 2 MS users currently alive (if we assume the very first is long dead).
So if Sasuke were to develop MS now then he would be the 4th person to do so because Kakashi developed it before him but after Itachi, Itachi wouldn't have known that Kakashi would develop MS. I believe that when Itachi was talking to Sasuke he was the only currently living MS user but the 2nd person to develop MS overall.
His quote was saying that 2 persons with MS existed as of the moment, and with Sasuke they will be 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Nin.
BTW don't you have to kill your best friend to develop MS? How did Kakashi develop it?Itachi may be surprised because he would never have expected Kakashi to go to such lengths, maybe there is a loophole?
This it is still not explained. But I see as posibility that Itachi was surprised because of the requierments, and not the "Only Uchiha's can Gain the MS"

Also, Killing your best friends is a way to Gain MS, Itachi was right (and maybe the other Uchihas that reached this, that it is still not confirmed), this does not means they are not other ways to Reach MS, as Kakashi found one it seems.
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Old 2006-02-28, 15:15   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Nin.
Don't you have to kill your best friend to develop MS? How did Kakashi develop it?
This is just what Itachi told Sasuke.
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Old 2006-02-28, 15:16   Link #58
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I see; so we can assume that now with Kakashi there are currently 3 living shinobi capable of using MS? Which means there is a fourth character out there with sharingan (other than Sasuke, Itachi, Kakashi).
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Old 2006-02-28, 15:16   Link #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
This it is still not explained with Details.
Not explained, but still Kakashi should have gained it without killing his best friend. So, Itachi's (or, we can say, Uchiha's) assumption there was corrected later on in the story.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
But I see as posibility that Itachi was surprised because of the requierments, and not the "Only Uchiha's can Gain the MS".
A person, who is obsessed with power, talked about the greatness of his Uchiha blood in front of a nonamed-blood, talked as if he is thinking lowly of the nonamed-blooded person, and, later on, when he sees that person gaining the powers of the true masters of his own praise-worthy Uchiha blood, he will not surprised?! Interesting view point.
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Old 2006-02-28, 15:20   Link #60
Rurik
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Saze,

You did not see my edit, but in my post is very specific, we don’t know where Kakashi MS came from.

And Itachi assumptions is not incorrect, he merely is stating a way to gain MS, which in the end worked.
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