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View Poll Results: My-Otome Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 16 11.85%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 28 20.74%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 42 31.11%
7 out of 10 : Good 29 21.48%
6 out of 10 : Average 12 8.89%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 2.22%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.48%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.74%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.48%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-02-27, 12:52   Link #141
KiraDouji
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
I just think these endless coincidences turn her whole character development into something of a farce.
This I have to agree with. I mean, fine, okay, it teaches the audience too, but come on Mai had better motivation than Arika and most of Mai's character was developed previous to the events in HiME whereas Arika's essentially a blank slate at the beginning of the series. What happened to the idea what she'd just stay latched on to her dream? What happened to her determination, personality, and attitude? I mean, I understand that she's had a lot happen to her and may possibly be traumatized, but, for example, if she had just gotten into that fight with Mashiro without the sand worm ala Dune, or seen Fia and drawn her own conclusions she still would have ended up where the script writers wanted her to be, but with a lot more meaning to her character.

- Kira
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Old 2006-02-27, 13:06   Link #142
Kinny Riddle
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastPrime
It leaves me with little doubt that Nina is not Rena's daughter. I would say that it would more likely indicate that Nina was the true Princess and that Arika was Rena's Daughter. The only difference between Rena and Arika is hair color. That is why Nina had the flasback when Arika dived in after her. The only similarity between Nina and Rena is hair color. While Nina looks a lot like the Queen, including eye color.
It seems I stand corrected, but we shall see...
Sometimes fans do speculate things too complicatedly when the plot turns out to be much simpler than they thought, so I stand by the simplest interpretation that Nina is Rena's daughter and Arika the true queen, while Mashiro is probably some random hobo's daughter chosen by the Prime Minister.
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Old 2006-02-27, 13:31   Link #143
Iron Maw
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraDouji
if she had just gotten into that fight with Mashiro without the sand worm ala Dune, or seen Fia and drawn her own conclusions she still would have ended up where the script writers wanted her to be, but with a lot more meaning to her character.

- Kira
Eh? the sandworm incident, didn't change her mind, it was helping out the village after Fia's attack and Midori talk that did.

Honeslty, I don't see a problem with that. It should be pretty obvious that Midori is supposed to be the Mentor to Mashiro and Arika and they are learning through her examples and words, which gives them anotnber perspective on life. What's wrong with that?
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Old 2006-02-27, 14:09   Link #144
PastPrime
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle
It seems I stand corrected, but we shall see...
Sometimes fans do speculate things too complicatedly when the plot turns out to be much simpler than they thought, so I stand by the simplest interpretation that Nina is Rena's daughter and Arika the true queen, while Mashiro is probably some random hobo's daughter chosen by the Prime Minister.
Actually, I suspect that Mashiro would have been next in line of succession if the princess had been killed too. Possibly the King's illegitimate daughter and the Prime Minister's granddaughter. At least, she is likely related to the Prime Minister.
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Old 2006-02-27, 14:22   Link #145
shud
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Have we actually seen any battling since Arika/Nina faced off? Even then, it was just like one explosion. I hope 21 includes some actual battles, though I presume there will be plenty at the end.
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Old 2006-02-27, 20:45   Link #146
KiraDouji
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw
Eh? the sandworm incident, didn't change her mind, it was helping out the village after Fia's attack and Midori talk that did.
"I don't want to use the power of an otome!"

[insert sandworm here]

"... I used the power of an otome and saved us!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw
Honeslty, I don't see a problem with that. It should be pretty obvious that Midori is supposed to be the Mentor to Mashiro and Arika and they are learning through her examples and words, which gives them anotnber perspective on life. What's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with setting up a mentor for them... just do it with a bit more grace is all I'm saying. All of the "*gasp* Leader!" and "Leader is amazing!" moments are starting to get to me. It all just seems really cheesey. Less cheese = good. Letting Arika draw her own conclusions = good. That's it.

- Kira
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Old 2006-02-27, 22:57   Link #147
ArchDragon
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraDouji
Nothing wrong with setting up a mentor for them... just do it with a bit more grace is all I'm saying. All of the "*gasp* Leader!" and "Leader is amazing!" moments are starting to get to me. It all just seems really cheesey. Less cheese = good. Letting Arika draw her own conclusions = good. That's it.

- Kira
If we have to wait for Arika to learn things on her own, this series will need at least 52 eps, she's a super slow airhead.

Yes, Arika's developments were forced, but this might be the only way to develop her from a blank slate to where she needs to be in 26 eps.
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Old 2006-02-27, 23:54   Link #148
Timeless Enigma
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Age: 27
I have to be honest and say that working on Otome isn't quite as enjoyable as it was pre-episode 17. To me the whole "OMG what's going to happen next?" feeling has been lost and a lot of things seem to be happening but at the same time I don't feel any significant development (or maybe it's happening at a pace I'm not happy with). I won't go into it in-depth, I'm not that insightful and/or eloquent and I doubt anyone cares.

*me shrugs*

Maybe that's what I get for being so enthusiastic in the first place, maybe I've come down from my initial "Otome High."

Even so, I just hope we are treated to a solid 5 episodes, and yes I meant 5, not 6. Even though no one important has died yet I am still seeing that reset looming over the finish line and I don't like it. Of course having a solid final episode would be great too! But I'll remain pessimistic now and be pleasantly surprised later.
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Old 2006-02-28, 00:19   Link #149
Tremalkinger
Hai, Nao-oneesama!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Enigma
Maybe that's what I get for being so enthusiastic in the first place, maybe I've come down from my initial "Otome High."
I think that may be part of it. We were all so enthusiastic at the beginning... we'd obsess over the smallest details of the show. Now that the answers are so close, no one seems all that enthused.

I honestly don't think its an issue with development or pacing. For me, the last few episodes have been the best and most enthralling yet, and I'm loving it. But the whole Arika/Sergey angst that went on for the middle episodes really killed a lot of my enjoyment for the series. I guess I'm still recovering from that, to a degree.
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Old 2006-02-28, 00:42   Link #150
EnseiSong
Clous Dolch
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
well, I'm glad that I'm not the only one not quite enjoy the show.... maybe because I expect too much from it? I don't know, but one thing for sure I do know is that, they started out way to strong. After that, I think from ep 4 to ep 16 or so.... nothing enjoyable happen! There was few parts of the some eps are important and made me think for a while... but other then that.... It's not that great of show.

Now with the turning point of the show.... which didn't feel like at all (but realized later IT IS happening when people started to die). I guess it's getting better. Still I'll just hope for a good wrap up ending.

Kinda think about it.... my first reason for watch this show is because of the characters in Mai Hime... other then that.... the characters they choose to be the main characters aren't that intersting... I don't like Arika, Nina have this father complex, and Mashiro, who didn't have any character development untill ep 18.

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Old 2006-02-28, 00:51   Link #151
Iron Maw
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraDouji
"I don't want to use the power of an otome!"

[insert sandworm here]

"... I used the power of an otome and saved us!"


You make sound like that Jabbal attacking Arika and Mashiro would have been impossible. That thing hides and lives in the enviroment to catch it's prey and by time you notice it your already in it's stomach.

Yeah Arika was forced by the Sandworm to use her powers to save her life (well more like Mashiro made her) which was the point. Arika can't survive without her powers weather she hates them or, not, and running away from her problems or, pretending there aren't there like in the last episode doesn't make her situation any better. In fact as this episode shows it's more likely to get someone killed making it even worse for her. Arika to this point was acting a lot like Mashiro in Episode 15 before Arika herself brought her out her mood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraDouji
[
Nothing wrong with setting up a mentor for them... just do it with a bit more grace is all I'm saying. All of the "*gasp* Leader!" and "Leader is amazing!" moments are starting to get to me. It all just seems really cheesey. Less cheese = good. Letting Arika draw her own conclusions = good. That's it.

- Kira
I don't see it being overused. Every time Mashiro has admired Midori it's been in a significant moment, where such leadership counts the most. It's not like she is kissing every ground that Midori walks or anything.

The main issue on why Mashiro has been such brat is due, to beening pampered and guide-less. Everyone in Fuuka Castle had always given into her desires, and because she had no real parental figure to teach how to be a be decent person, and she turn out the way she was back in episode 1 because of it.
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Old 2006-02-28, 01:05   Link #152
Iron Maw
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnseiSong
Mashiro, who didn't have any character development untill ep 18.

Did you forget about Episode 11, 12 and 15? Mashiro's full development as a person and a leader wouldn't have been able to come about unless she left the her Castle, to see the real world.

As far as the show it's self is concerned, I usually don't pass judgement on series until it's over, otherwise I would have never finished Mai Hime.

While I have high expectations for Otome, I also wanted it above all else to be a good show. I like how Otome isn't as over melodramatic as Hime was and the death so far in the show more significant then most of those from Hime. Death wasn't all over the place for the sake like it was in Hime, and gives Characters like Mashiro a chance to learn from it giving it meaning instead of just having "shock" factor. Otome's world, history and functions are also much more flesh out to me.

Last edited by Catgirls; 2006-02-28 at 17:04.
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Old 2006-02-28, 06:33   Link #153
Anime Adoru
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastPrime
Actually, I suspect that Mashiro would have been next in line of succession if the princess had been killed too. Possibly the King's illegitimate daughter and the Prime Minister's granddaughter. At least, she is likely related to the Prime Minister.
I agree. Actually, I gave up speculating based on "the facts" that Sunrise is giving us, and rather figured that the better question to ask is what makes sense to end this series gracefully. ("If you can't get there from here, trying getting here from there.")

So I think Nina is the lost princess and Arika is Rena's daughter. Given Nina's situation this means she has to die. To gracefully bring the series to a happy ending, Mashiro has to be next in line to take over Windbloom.

That at least makes the most sense to me.
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Old 2006-02-28, 08:31   Link #154
felix
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
Well, there is a much easier way - they should have made the main characters a lot smarter to begin with and in that way avoid the forced development. I really don't get this obsession with characters who are as naive and ignorant as you can get in the beginning and gradually learn things and in the end become awesome in all respects. It's a cliche that it's difficult to make enjoyable, especially when the main character happens to be somewhat retarded like Arika.
Arika wasn't a naive caracter at the bigining ... hell if they just kept her the way she was and used the "grany said" thing as caracter development she would have been my favorite caracter , maybe ... As I see it she went from a solid caracter to a naive one and now is going back, of course we'll have to wait a few ep until she's all back to her former self ... I guess Sunrise is kinda obsesed with the hole "circular story thing" and "let's make the vewers think" approuche ... seriosly not a good idea

Hmmm ... I sincerly don't understand why they don't use battles as caracter development ... I mean, it's also a cliche but at least it doesn't get boring like the approche they chose ... hopefully Mai will be the spark that lites the fire back into our hearts
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Old 2006-02-28, 11:19   Link #155
EnseiSong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw
Did you forget about Episode 11, 12 and 15? Mashiro's full development as a person and a leader wouldn't have been able to come about unless she left the her Castle, to see the real world.

As far as the show it's self is concerned, I usually don't pass judgement on series until it's over, otherwise I would have never finished Mai Hime.

While I have high expectations for Otome, I also wanted it above all else to be a good show. I like how Otome isn't as over melodramatic as Hime was and the death so far in the show more significant then most of those from Hime. Death wasn't all over the place for the sake like it was in Hime, and gives Characters like Mashiro a chance to learn from it giving it meaning instead of just having "shock" factor. Otome's world, history and functions are also much more flesh out to me.
No, I didn't forget about those episodes. But if you counting her not showing up for an epidoes or two, but to moan and whine, because of a crush she have it on Takumi.... then ok. You are right about she have to leave her castle to see the world... but I wish it wasn't until ep 18 she finish realized how suck she is as a Queen. I guess for me the pase of her development is so slow it don't seem even there.

Also, I don't like to pass judgement either before the show ends, but this might be the first series I could pass a judgement(?). Because right now, it seems only the Mai Hime characters interest me (like Mikoto showing up as person not a cat, then maybe return of Mai, and maybe Sergay is Tate )..... the "new" Otome characters aren't that great. Man, I don't even want to talk about the Robes they have, and the "school uniform".

As for the flow of the story, I guess I'm like more of dramatic changes in story. Mai Otome have a good flow, thing just what you expected to happen, but if I can guess what happen next I don't like it that much. Unlike Mai Hime, I didn't expect lots of things happen (like the art teacher is evil... but didn't know untill he rape the Sister, then Natsuki and Shizuru in bed thing ). So what I'm saying is that I like suprises, lol~~
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Old 2006-02-28, 12:23   Link #156
Iron Maw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philip72
I agree,
It's almost in a sense as if she is the anti-Mai. Mai was emotionally mature (for her age), Kind, intelligent, competent and united the rest of the characters around her.
Yes but that's because she had to be. When her parents died when she was young Mai was the one rising herself and her brother. Not to mention She worked hard paying for her schooling and her brother's Operation. She had grow up early.

Arika hasn't gone through such hardships so why would you expect her to be like Mai?

Quote:
Originally Posted by philip72
Arinko is emotionally and mentally immature; she does not unite the people around her and is usually a source of division.
A thoroughly unappealing character.
Arika is a lot of people her age. ofcourse she is immature, unrefined. She's 14/15 year old normal girl from the boondocks with little to no real world experience. Arika came to Garderobe with literally the clothes on her back, no relatives, and only what she knows. Her determination is the only thing she has going for her at this point. Arika while being scatterbrained has a lot of heart.

She did help Aswald when they need it the most as well as Mashiro and Erstin. She's young, but she will learn..
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Old 2006-02-28, 13:23   Link #157
Catgirls
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Please try to keep discussion in this thread on Episode 20 (or any Otome episode prior to it). Thanks.

Last edited by Catgirls; 2006-02-28 at 13:48.
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Old 2006-02-28, 14:27   Link #158
philip72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw
Arika is a lot of people her age. ofcourse she is immature, unrefined. She's 14/15 year old normal girl from the boondocks with little to no real world experience. Arika came to Garderobe with literally the clothes on her back, no relatives, and only what she knows. Her determination is the only thing she has going for her at this point. Arika while being scatterbrained has a lot of heart.
Your right, perhaps I am being a little unfair.

Mai was just such an attractive character in many ways and its hard for a more juvenile character like Arika to be compared against such a lead. I suppose I should be comparing here towards MH Mikoto instead.
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Old 2006-02-28, 19:52   Link #159
Iron Maw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philip72
Your right, perhaps I am being a little unfair.

Mai was just such an attractive character in many ways and its hard for a more juvenile character like Arika to be compared against such a lead. I suppose I should be comparing here towards MH Mikoto instead.
LOL maybe, but Arika has much more in her vocabulary that doesn't consists of "Food" and "Mai".

Arika and Mai have totally different childhoods that shaped their characters. Switch their roles and they both would have turned out definitely. Not everybody is go through lives in the same manner Mai did or otherwise it would be boring, IMO.
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Old 2006-02-28, 20:35   Link #160
KiraDouji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw
[Insert entire post here]
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, as we look at each point in a completely different way.

- Kira
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