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Old 2006-10-13, 18:39   Link #2121
warainagara
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
November's Megami has some info on the upcoming drama CD in its Sybilla Fanclub column - can anyone help translate? From what I can make out, it seems to be a comedy about the characters finding work in something akin to RL. (Amazon have a colour thumbnail of the CD cover; Neviril has obviously taken to the OL look.)
This drama CD with Simoun's side story has the content which is the opposite of the weighty anime.
It is super nonsensical and vociferous comedy.
After the war, the next attempt of Chor Tempest is establishing a company in Tokyo.
What will become of Simoun Co. set up by the girls with no working experience?
And how will the girls deal with living in the metropolitan city, Tokyo?
The CD including 6 eps will let us know the new attractiveness of Simoun!!

Haha,,, quite inflammatory copy....
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Old 2006-10-13, 18:55   Link #2122
Yui from Okinawa
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009-1 has good succeer of Simoun taste....

Quote:
Simoun has ended. My summer is gone.... by warainagara ,CA
Youtobe Animedia 009-1 promotion (No cut, renewal sound effect) has introduced Genaral Anime forum
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=35756


The long 140 years continue "Cold -War" world , Mylene Hoffman who has codenamed "009-1" full-physics mechanicalized cyborg has more good mood serious anime .

At first grance, many of fan-woman and guys think "Najica Blitz" or "Female James Bond who has sexal and tough style Pants and spy action anime ", but if you continue to watched, you seek important story and plot essence of "Simoun".....

Last edited by Yui from Okinawa; 2006-10-13 at 21:06.
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Old 2006-10-13, 19:12   Link #2123
Matrim
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Quote:
Then we have Limone's one episode angst. So her sagitta died when she was trying to perform a complicated ri maajon. Um.. haven't we heard this somewhere before?
Well, Rimone did it in training while Neviril and Amuria did it in a real battle when the situation was desperate. So I would say that Rimone is objectively a lot more guilty than Neviril but since she didn't seem to like her co-cadets, she didn't go into a full angst mode but had some kind of subconcious problem stopping her from performing as she should have. And when was her supposed to have been shown earlier? Chor Tempest was hardly perfroming any ri-maajons in episodes 2-4. If anything is problematic in Rimone's plotline it's how the heck she has managed to finish her training if this problem had haunted her after that incident and why she hasn't been punished for causing the death of another cadet.

As for Mamiina - true, the characters who were introduced earlier could have caused the downfall of Chor tempest on their own but Mamiina's role in the story is a lot bigger than doing just that. Also, the Chor needed two new memmbers to get the optimal amoununt of twelve, so two new faces were going to be introduced anyway. I think the justification of Mamiina's "split personality" is her desire to have everything she wanted as soon as possible, after achieving her dream of being the pair of Sibylla Aurea she lsot sight of reality and thought that she could do anything. Once Neviril rejected her she assumed it was because of her lowly birth and as a result all hell broke loose.

Quote:
Fortunately episode six was a lot better although the way Kaimu & Parietta played war in the Simoun struck a false note when you consider they've been involved in the real thing & seen comrades die. I may be wrong but I can't imagine child soldiers in our world "play war" with their rifles when not shooting people for real. (I think Kaimu would meet the UN definition of child soldier).
I think they were just drunk.
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Old 2006-10-13, 19:16   Link #2124
FatPianoBoy
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You have a lot of good points, ujiuji. I don't quite agree with Neviril's grief not being convincing (she's a spoiled brat before this happens, after all) or Paraietta and Kaimu playing war striking a bad note, though.
The rest seems pretty justified and makes a lot of sense now that someone actually said it, but I think there are reasons why things went the way they did (other than bad writing).

The fanservice (what very little there is) is just gloss. After a while, I didn't even notice it.
First episode was very confusing. It didn't help that I had to watch Doremi's version the first time around, since they did a pretty sloppy job (juunana = 17; not 19, guys ) Rewatch it after you finish the series and you'll probably appreciate it more.
Aaeru was very bloodthirsty, but once she actually gets a taste of blood, she realizes what it's all about. Her ordeal in episode four changes her whole disposition about fighting and killing. I think this was actually an example of very good writing.
Limone's a tough kid. Stuff doesn't usually bother her. The reason Neviril's experience didn't bring on Limone's angst sooner was probably because she wasn't there when it happened, so she probably knew very little about what had happened at that point since no one who was there felt much like talking about it. And there's a difference between 'forgetting' and 'moving on,' as you'll see in later episodes. Actually, this is one of Simoun's main themes. Regardless, this one does still feel a bit strange
I think in Mamiina's case that she was trying to seduce Neviril - not rape her . But yeah, I see what you mean about her being really, really stupid. Killing a comrade is not how you further your military career. She's just so eager to prove that she's just as good as all the fancy people that she's blind to what she's really doing. She gets much, much better as time goes on, though.
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Old 2006-10-13, 21:03   Link #2125
warainagara
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ujiuji,
the first three episodes of Simoun were something intolerable to me.
I began to have an interest in the show from ep 4 and got more attracted as the story flew.
The impression I got first was the show is quite static, which I don't like as a characteristic of an anime.
The events and characterization in the beginning part were suddenly given meanings when I finally understood the characters' features and personal situations.

Aaeru is just indifferent to others' feelings and has her own motive to get aggressively involved in battles.
These are combined with her childlike nature and appear as seemingly bloodthirst.

Neviril is reserved about expressing her feelings.
The static scenes with close-up to her in the initial eps are obviously about her feeling of loss.
That may not be interesting way of directing but fits her character, imo.

Limone's fear emerged when Dominura ordered her to do auriga.
Her order was the trigger of reviving angst from the event that Limone's pair died during her auriging.
Why do they have to show the angst before Dominura comes up?

As for Kaimu and Paraietta scene, they are not really sympathetic for the human beings in the enemy crafts because the can't see them.
This is implied in the later episode and explictly mentioned by Rodoreamon at a point.

Also, Mamina's attempt was not rape in my view.
She wanted to secure her position by being united to Sibylla Aurea physically by seduction.
She was transferred from another Chor and was reunited with Rodore, her ex-master, who will play an important role to deal with her issue.
The transfer, her complex about low standing, and the bustle she makes after the transfer are so closely connected, so transfer itself is even necessary for her story.

The depiction of emotions and characterization is real and agreeable in spite of the inevitable limitation it has as an anime.
And that's one of the reasons the show works for me.

Yui,
Thanks for the info!
I was aware of the show but haven't seen it yet.
Ok, let's give a shot.
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Last edited by warainagara; 2006-10-13 at 22:20. Reason: Auriga->Aurea ^^--
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Old 2006-10-13, 23:21   Link #2126
Kaoru Chujo
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Interesting points, ujiuji, but I have to say I disagree with almost all of them -- although I do have a couple of other similar ones. In general, except for a few small problems, I think this show has great writing, rather than bad.

I do agree that episode 1 was confusing. The director decided to plunge right in to this unusual (to say the least) situation, full of strange terms and a bizarre society, without gradually introducing us to things. On the other hand, a slower introduction would have stretched things out, slowed the show's flow, and perhaps not given him the chance to have the first key event of the series take place in episode 1. And no matter how much introduction he gave, I'm not sure it would have worked. This method certainly made us feel we were in a strange new world.

The only reason I was unsure what had happened -- and in fact Neviril's reaction left me little doubt -- was that I was not yet familiar enough with the simoun to be sure the twisted rear part of the simoun meant what I thought it did. You may find episode 19 equally confusing. In both cases, I think the main problem is the storyboarding: just not having the right views to make the situation clear. Both episodes were storyboarded by the director, I believe. In any case, when I go back and look at either of those episodes now, they are among the most powerful.
Spoiler for more discussion of ujiuji's points:
And I just want to say that thanks to Yui, I have looked at the first two episodes of 009-1 and enjoyed them. The look is really nice, the fighting well done, the fighters attractive, and the stories move quickly and are agreeably camp. This is one show where the fanservice is absolutely front and center. With shows like Asatte no Houkou and Hataraki-man around, I'm not sure I'll keep watching. But I did enjoy what I saw.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2006-10-14 at 02:41.
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Old 2006-10-14, 00:58   Link #2127
fignae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ujiuji View Post
Thirdly I didn't care for Aeru at first. She was too bloodthirsty. In episode four when she went out with Limone her thoughts were, basically, "Hey, let's not waste time just practising, let's go and find someone to kill!"
I didn't like Aaeru immediately, either. It was episode 4 that made me sit up and say, "Hey, this show is something else!" Yes, Aaeru seemed a little crazy to me at first, to want to go out and kill. But it's all a front, and that front quickly peels away as the episode plays itself out; she's in tears by the end, faced with the truths of war. The red eye only emphasized this. I think it's a pity if they took it out in the DVD version.

Quote:
For a start Neviril's grief doesn't convince me. We may all react differently to grief, but I've seen anime that handle it in a way I find more recognisable & true.
On the handling of grief:
Yes, I've had the same thoughts. Grief is quite popular in anime, and I was comparing it to other depictions of people grieving, and thought Simoun fell short here. I think my opinion changed with the scene in which everyone was laughing at Rodore's whatshisface on the Messis, at which I realized that these girls are incredibly strong people, and maybe that's why they made it thus far. It is not the ideal situation for me, as I would have preferred detailed delving into individual emotional states; Neviril doesn't count. But this show isn't interested in such representations. The angst is, instead, steadily trickled in via moments during battle where pilots suddenly see the others' humanity, undercurrents in the quiet of bedrooms and corridors, sudden screams in the night. The effect accumulates, and keeps referring back to itself. One character's pain always harks back to another's, like Limone recalling Neviril's. These narrative devices are very close to the surface, and perhaps because of that, a little off-putting, but it's part of the style of the show, like obvious rhyme or regular rhythm in poetry. The subtlety comes through in other aspects and balances it all out. That's how I reconciled it for myself, probably.

Quote:
Fortunately episode six was a lot better although the way Kaimu & Parietta played war in the Simoun struck a false note when you consider they've been involved in the real thing & seen comrades die. I may be wrong but I can't imagine child soldiers in our world "play war" with their rifles when not shooting people for real.
My opinion has also been affected by how Koshimizu Ami found this scene memorable. Why was it so? I believe the scene may have been particularly powerful because these were two teenagers forced to grow up too soon, and here they are indulging in a game like children. It's a significant move for the stoic Paraietta, and even Kaimu is normally so serious. But it is sad, not weird, that they should be "playing at war" -- perhaps this is the only game that occurs to them, as they're around Simoun all day. So it must be cathartic to be able to use the vehicle as a source of amusement instead of pain. Are child soldiers ever allowed to be children? I don't know.

Quote:
Then we come to episode seven and Mamiina.
I agree that Mamiina's integration into the choir appears unrealistic. More could have been done to make the transition smoother. Just one compact scene would have helped a lot. Maybe there wasn't time.

Very good point, above, about Rodoreamon's ojou-sama status. Pity it requires so much deduction on our parts.

Thanks, everyone!

[009-1 is scary. I enjoyed it and might continue. But... yeah.]
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Old 2006-10-14, 02:13   Link #2128
Simon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warainagara View Post
Haha,,, quite inflammatory copy....
Cheers for the translation - I wonder if Simoun Co. is headquartered anywhere near Kichijōji station?

And speaking of non-canonical, I've just spotted the DVD 4 cover. Hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fignae View Post
The red eye only emphasized this. I think it's a pity if they took it out in the DVD version.
Turns out they didn't. Interestingly, however, it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the storyboards.
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Old 2006-10-14, 09:50   Link #2129
jtrog
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Wow active message still!. Well, when I saw eps 1 - 2 - 3 Loong ago, the series didn't make much sense but I liked it none the less.

As I said in last post watching Eps 1 - 2 - 3 over again, (with words/dialog repaired I believe) it really cemented the show. Those 3 were GREAT! I can't understand most of the detracting posts in the thread here. Ep 8 really started the ball rolling.

I THINK, those detracting the series must have bad video or audio drivers and really watching it in a screwed up way in their systems. Honesty, with surround sound and h24 its freggin awsome. Any one even slightly interested such as a spouse going 'what the hell is she watching now...' in the background would become a fan.....

Only other thing is possibly some where actually watching to see some 'yuri' things and were disapointed in that none ever happened.
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Old 2006-10-14, 12:36   Link #2130
yononaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I've posted some general thoughts about Simoun in the hashihime blog. Just to make my point of view clear, I called the piece: "Simoun -- One of the Greatest Anime Ever Made." Feel free to comment here or there, if anything strikes you.
Kaoru Chujo, does commenting actually work at your blog? I mean I doubt you'd want me commenting on Simoun there , but a while ago I commented on one of the BGI episodes and the comment never appeared. Since it wasn't in any way inflammatory, I doubt you'd have modded it; and there don't seem to be any comments there on any of your posts. Which I find surprising, given your writing skill and how active you are at AS. (Maybe you have a bunch of comments sitting in the moderation queue?)

Anyway, what I would comment on if I could is that (assuming Simoun is great, which as you know I disagree on) titling your piece "One of the Greatest Anime Ever Made" seems to imply that you've seen (almost) all anime that was ever made (Edit: Well, I suppose if you think that it's difficult to imagine there being anything greater, you could say it even if you haven't seen quite that much.)

Edit2: One more thing, since you yet again mentioned popularity in your blog entry. I think some people earlier misunderstood my position about whether Simoun should be popular or not. Actually, when I saw it and quickly got the feeling I wouldn't like it, I also thought that it'd probably be very popular. That usually seems to be the case with the shows I feel that particular type of dislike with--like, say, My-HiME and Scrapped Princess. So, whatever I was talking about before, it wasn't exactly meant to be a "this is why it's not popular" commentary in the way some people thought it was.

Last edited by yononaka; 2006-10-14 at 13:10.
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Old 2006-10-14, 13:21   Link #2131
atosaki
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yononaka, no offence but I've been watching the whole discusstion above and the impression i got was that your points are mostly focused on fans, rather than anime itself. The way you twist your words and talk about an individual fan really discomforts me.
I'm not saying that you should not post your comment or something like that. What i'm saying is that If you really want to discuss about Simoun, I have no objection(rather, i'm willing to know how others think of Simoun) but i suggest you to do that in some respectful manner.
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Old 2006-10-14, 13:49   Link #2132
yononaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atosaki View Post
yononaka, no offence but I've been watching the whole discusstion above and the impression i got was that your points are mostly focused on fans, rather than anime itself. The way you twist your words and talk about an individual fan really discomforts me.
I'm not saying that you should not post your comment or something like that. What i'm saying is that If you really want to discuss about Simoun, I have no objection(rather, i'm willing to know how others think of Simoun) but i suggest you to do that in some respectful manner.
If you mean the way I talk about Kaoru Chujo, I'm not sure what the problem is. I have nothing against him(?) personally--quite the opposite, in fact. I talk about KC's stuff because he is the premiere Simoun supporter and at the same time I disagree with him quite strongly. It is true that I haven't talked a lot about the details of the anime, but the more "meta" issues such as why lots of people seemed to have a problem with Simoun were also of interest. Anyway, if KC has a problem with me (I doubt it, since he gave me positive rep--but I suppose things may have changed since), I'm sure we can clear it up. What others have to do with it I don't know, since I haven't focused on anyone else. Frankly, I'm getting tired of defending myself for being disrespectful and "twisting my words" and whatnot when I'm not actually doing it, just because someone says so. At the same time people feel free to analyze my person (not a problem, BTW, I'm just mentioning it in terms of focus)...
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Old 2006-10-14, 14:00   Link #2133
fignae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
(Edit: Well, I suppose if you think that it's difficult to imagine there being anything greater, you could say it even if you haven't seen quite that much.)
I'm glad you edited your post, yononaka. Frankly, it's fairly common to say that something is the best, and it does not have to be a definitive statement of anything. It was a weird nitpick that kinda misses the big picture of her blog entry.

Quote:
Actually, when I saw it and quickly got the feeling I wouldn't like it, I also thought that it'd probably be very popular. That usually seems to be the case with the shows I feel that particular type of dislike with--like, say, My-HiME and Scrapped Princess. So, whatever I was talking about before, it wasn't exactly meant to be a "this is why it's not popular" commentary in the way some people thought it was.
Yeah, but we can take it as a "this is why it's not popular" commentary. That's a more interesting angle than "why yononaka did not like it"....

And yes, seems like Mai-HiME, huh? Has part of the formula: fanservice, popular seiyuu, pretty, bright colours, yuri.... Man, am I happy it isn't. Oh, wait, big, popular franchise, an anime that I do like.... eh, let's just say we need all types, and I really didn't mean to make that comparison again....
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Old 2006-10-14, 14:22   Link #2134
yononaka
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Originally Posted by fignae View Post
I'm glad you edited your post, yononaka. Frankly, it's fairly common to say that something is the best, and it does not have to be a definitive statement of anything. It was a weird nitpick that kinda misses the big picture of her blog entry.
Well, "the best ever made" is not something I would say unless I really meant all that entails. And I didn't miss the big picture, but since I disagree with KC as much as I do, and given the recent feelings about me here, there didn't seem to be much point in getting into it. It was very nicely expressed as KC always does, and I would definitely be tempted to watch Simoun if I read it (deja vu ).

Quote:
Yeah, but we can take it as a "this is why it's not popular" commentary. That's a more interesting angle than "why yononaka did not like it"....
Well, sure, if you just discuss it in those terms; but if it comes back in the way I was pseudo-quoted about it earlier and is yet another thing ascribed to me negatively, it's not a lot of fun. So I thought I'd clarify.
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Old 2006-10-14, 14:47   Link #2135
Kaoru Chujo
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I have no personal problem with yononaka except that I disagree with most of what he writes. I meant those rep points, and I still do. I think his contributions here have been mainly a good thing, for giving us/me some intelligent opposition. But I don't think that what atosaki said about him is completely wrong. It's just that I can't really criticize because I've done the same things myself. It's hard to keep the personal totally out of things and keep from trying to justify/defend oneself. We all have to try to keep the atmosphere positive.

I used that extravagant title mainly to be declarative about what I think and to make an impression. No, I haven't seen every anime, or even all of some of the best. But I've seen enough of the ones people think are the best that I feel confident in my opinion. Of course, it's only my opinion, but at least I have some specifics in that piece to say why I hold it. EDIT: But what I said was that it was "one of the best," not "the best." I might even think it's the best I've seen, but I'm not even totally sure about that, since I haven't seen my previous favorites so recently, and I do have trouble objectively judging some of the top-rated anime, since they're in genres I just can't relate to that well -- as I think Simoun is for many people.

As for the popularity thing, I wasn't discussing what you said, yononaka, so much as giving my opinion of why the show wasn't more popular, based on my analysis of the comments of a number of people, including you, and my own reactions. As for Mai-HiME, I disliked it for the longest time, until someone here suggested that episodes 8 and 14 and subsequent were a lot better than what went before. I watched and I agreed. But still not a patch on Simoun.

By the way, I found fignae's analysis of how angst is "trickled in" to Simoun and of narrative techniques extremely interesting. I'm still pondering. Nothing of that bothered me, nor did I think of it as "close to the surface," but rather as subtle in itself, as opposed to dealing with emotional states more directly. But I really have to look and think some more, and I probably misunderstood some of what fignae wrote. One thing that struck me over the time I was writing the blog piece was that although each episode is a unit in itself, the emotional trajectories over the whole series are what's most important. The words "trickling in" struck that chord for me.

And I certainly haven't modded any comments on my blog. Thanks for the heads-up, yononaka, I'll have to look into it.
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Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | spring 2014 previews | spring 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: Nobunaga the Fool | Nisekoi | Wixoss | Isshuukan Friends | Brynhildr in the Darkness | Kanojo ga Flag wo Oretara | Mangaka-san to Assistant-san to | Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san | Soul Eater Not | No Game, No Life | Is the Order a Rabbit? | Nanana's Buried Treasure | Mekakucity Actors | Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei | Bokura wa Minna Kawaisou | Soredemo Sekai wa Utsukushii

Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2006-10-15 at 02:05.
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Old 2006-10-14, 15:07   Link #2136
yononaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
EDIT: But what I said was that it was "one of the best," not "the best."
I know, I was responding to fignae's "fairly common to say that something is the best" in my last post. (Since my comment was about "ever made", it wasn't relevant if it was one of or the best.)

Quote:
As for the popularity thing, I wasn't discussing what you said, yononaka, so much as giving my opinion of why the show wasn't more popular, based on my analysis of the comments of a number of people, including you, and my own reactions.
I know, you've been discussing it long before I started posting I just referred to your blog post because it was the latest mention of the popularity topic.

Anyway, I'm glad at least someone doesn't have a huge problem with me. (Especially when it's you )
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Old 2006-10-14, 15:12   Link #2137
Simon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ujiuji View Post
Quick question, is the title "Simoun" an oblique reference to the pilot and writer Saint-Exupéry? Seems to fit in a number of ways.
I'm not sure about Saint-Exupéry himself, but it's definitely named after the Caudron Simoun that he made famous. This was confirmed in an interview with mecha designer Jin Seob Song, although my Google skillz have failed me in my attempt to find it (secondary source here).

What I did stumble across was this:

Spoiler for ep26:

Last edited by Simon; 2006-10-14 at 16:30. Reason: Add spoiler tags since the link gives stuff away
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Old 2006-10-14, 20:54   Link #2138
FatPianoBoy
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You can literally vote for anyone and everyone that appears (or doesn't, like Aaeru's grandpa ) in the show in there. Even some of the mechs were included (no Messis? D: ). Wow.

Do I vote for Para-sama? Kaimu? Aaeru? Anubituf? Gah!!!
This shall be a tough decision.
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Old 2006-10-14, 21:30   Link #2139
atosaki
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
Do I vote for Para-sama? Kaimu? Aaeru? Anubituf? Gah!!!
This shall be a tough decision.
I can't make up my mind between Yun and Neviril

EDIT(preventing double post): yononaka, i had no intension to do so but if my post disturbed you, I do
apologize.
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Old 2006-10-14, 23:45   Link #2140
warainagara
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atosaki View Post
I can't make up my mind between Yun and Neviril
Just go for Neviril, atosaki.
But we can vote as many times as we want.
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