AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-01-10, 18:30   Link #2861
hazelnut
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 34
So i was looking for a thread on a forum and it seems i'm not disappointed here. I probably won't be reading all 142 pages, so if anything i say about has been touched upon my aplogies.

Anyway, i finished watching this series this evening and i've felt strongly enough about it to find to a place to discuss it. Like people have already said there's story strands that could have been tied up better, but overall i really liked this show. It had some striking things to say about themes like time and change and how we all have to deal with it, and there's a subtle thread of emotions that hangs through all the episodes that's bound to leave me in a melancholy funk for the next couple of days at least. Which in the end is the best thing any anime (or any story for that matter) can offer to its public in my book.

About the ending though, part of me would have liked to see some more closure on where/when/as what exactly Aeru and Neviril, and that Amuria lady too ended up. As it is, it's a wonderful open and subtle ending, sure to linger in the mind, but they have all this build-up in their relationship which makes it really hard to just let them go in the distance like that right? But then again, letting go and moving on with your life's one of the key themes of the show, so in that respect they did pull it off very gracefully. All in all it was a show where i was sorry to see the last credits rolling across the screen, and i haven't been able to say from the other anime (not that much really) i've seen.
hazelnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-15, 10:06   Link #2862
WanderingKnight
Gregory House
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to WanderingKnight
Quote:
But then again, letting go and moving on with your life's one of the key themes of the show, so in that respect they did pull it off very gracefully.
The show dealt with that, yes, but in the case of Neviril and Aaeru, the idea (or at least what I understood from it) is that they didn't let go (of their childhood, of their immaturity), and that they were the only characters that managed to do it.

It was probably a first, at least for me, in anime in general. The boy-becomes-adult theme is pretty common, and this was the first time the typical story was given a 180 degrees twist.
__________________


Place them in a box until a quieter time | Lights down, you up and die.
WanderingKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-15, 20:56   Link #2863
Kaoru Chujo
Komatsu Mikako
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Simoun was broadcast from April to August of 2006. I hung on every episode and was here to help create the 142 pages of passionate discussion. You can imagine how great it makes me feel to see people like Iromaru and hazelnut just coming upon the show now and enjoying it as much as I did.

Now that I think of it, there is something of Peter Pan about the show, as Wandering Knight suggests. Aaeru in particular is like the little girl who refuses to grow up. In a way, I think she is Neviril's life-line, giving the princess a way to maintain her purity despite the years of sin. Aaeru remains a child, Neviril returns to childhood.

There were many emotional high points in the show: the girl (I forget her name) crying in ep2 after her gender is chosen; Neviril choosing Aaeru; the death of Mamiina; Mamiina among the flowers; Yun in the place of Onashia. In part because it was somewhat indeterminate, the ending was not an emotional high. But I appreciated that. I think drama works better when it doesn't end on a climax, but has a period to settle down from the height of catharsis.
__________________
Komatsu Mikako 小松未可子 b88.11.11 (age 26). 2010: Heroman (Joey). 2011: Yu-Gi-Oh Zexal (Mizuki Kotori). 2012: Bodacious Space Pirates (Kato Marika), K (Neko). 2013: Sunday Without God (Ulla Hecmatika), Nagi no Asukara (Miuna). 2014: Soul Eater Not (Eternal Feather), Aldnoah Zero (Inko), Ao Haru Ride (Shuuko), Nisekoi (Seishirou). 2015: Junketsu no Maria (Priapos), Gangsta (Ginger), Aoharu x Kikanjuu (Hotaru), Ushio to Tora (Asako), Danchigai (Yayoi).
Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | summer 2015 anime previews - schedule
character/seiyuu pages: Hibike! Euphonium | Akagami no Shirayukihime | Aoharu x Kikanjuu | Charlotte | Dandelion | Gangsta | Gatchaman | GATE | Im@s Cinderella | Jitsu wa Watashi wa... | Non Non Biyori | Overlord | Rokka no Yuusha | Simoneta | Sore ga Seiyuu | Working!!!
Kaoru Chujo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-16, 05:33   Link #2864
hazelnut
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 34
Glad to see this thread this lives too, i was afraid people wouldn't be discussing it anymore. I'm with Kaoru about the open ending being better than closing off with a bang and a blazing victory, if only because it keeps you busy wondering what actually happened to those two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
The show dealt with that, yes, but in the case of Neviril and Aaeru, the idea (or at least what I understood from it) is that they didn't let go (of their childhood, of their immaturity), and that they were the only characters that managed to do it.
I don't entirely agree. Yes, they did find a loophole out of their eventual fate, but they did so by wholeheartedly choosing for each other. You could argue that that's a mature choice in itself. Besides, they both seemed to have their reasons to try the whole Emerald Ri Majoon thing.
hazelnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-16, 08:19   Link #2865
WanderingKnight
Gregory House
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to WanderingKnight
It is a "mature" choice because it, well, determines the rest of their lives, but if you think about it, they were the only ones who didn't have to choose their gender, which in Simoun's world represents the coming of age. They also were the only ones who were able to overcome Onashia (Dominura? ) and become the true Eternal Maidens--Eien no Shoujo--which without thinking too hard is pretty clear about its meaning: an eternal young girl.

(Plus, there are literally dozens of allusions throughout the series on duty, adulthood and maturity anxieties--especially with the contrasting figures of Neviril and Aaeru--the former is a customs-abiding girl who would have chosen her gender and forgotten about riding Simoun if she had never met the latter--who in turn is a pretty clear crystallization of a young, hopeful and rather naive spirit).
__________________


Place them in a box until a quieter time | Lights down, you up and die.
WanderingKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-16, 09:46   Link #2866
hazelnut
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 34
OK, i'll buy that. And yeah, Dominura's Onashia, i'm pretty sure that's what the writers were going after in any case.

And just because i can't let the whole matter go, maybe the idea was to let Neviril and Aeru do as they did so they'd turn into a sort of symbol of the other girl's bygone youth, a reminder of their hopes and dreams? Maybe the story wouldn't have had this impact had they just chosen their gender and kept flowing on the stream of time like the others did? That's what i liked about this show you see, it keeps you guessing.

And i'm not buying that they simply vanished out of the space-time continuum. Their story should go on somewhere.
hazelnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-01-16, 16:15   Link #2867
Kaoru Chujo
Komatsu Mikako
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
1. Dominura-Onashia. I just don't think they look enough alike. And they were certainly played by different seiyuus. However, it still may be something the (many) writers had in mind.

By the way, Onashia's seiyuu, Tamagawa Sakiko, has a major role in the new Genji Monogatari anime, as Fujitsubo.

2. maturity. I like the idea of seeing the whole show as in part a meditation on growing up. Aaeru and Neviril remain young girls forever, each preserving her special form of purity: Neviril's pure morality and Aaeru's pure delight. They seem to be everywhere and nowhere, since they do seem to flash across the sky from time to time. But from their own point of view, I think they are flying around from place to place and maybe time to time. Like Dominura-Limone?

And if anyone here is interested in seiyuu, you might like to fill in my "Top Seiyuus of 2008" poll, linked to from my sig, below.
__________________
Komatsu Mikako 小松未可子 b88.11.11 (age 26). 2010: Heroman (Joey). 2011: Yu-Gi-Oh Zexal (Mizuki Kotori). 2012: Bodacious Space Pirates (Kato Marika), K (Neko). 2013: Sunday Without God (Ulla Hecmatika), Nagi no Asukara (Miuna). 2014: Soul Eater Not (Eternal Feather), Aldnoah Zero (Inko), Ao Haru Ride (Shuuko), Nisekoi (Seishirou). 2015: Junketsu no Maria (Priapos), Gangsta (Ginger), Aoharu x Kikanjuu (Hotaru), Ushio to Tora (Asako), Danchigai (Yayoi).
Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | summer 2015 anime previews - schedule
character/seiyuu pages: Hibike! Euphonium | Akagami no Shirayukihime | Aoharu x Kikanjuu | Charlotte | Dandelion | Gangsta | Gatchaman | GATE | Im@s Cinderella | Jitsu wa Watashi wa... | Non Non Biyori | Overlord | Rokka no Yuusha | Simoneta | Sore ga Seiyuu | Working!!!
Kaoru Chujo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-20, 17:27   Link #2868
yononaka
nani ni tatoemu
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
This ANN forum post seems to indicate Simoun wasn't commercially successful for MB. Maybe I'm reading too much into it since the statements aren't explicit, but the highly emphatic tone of this response by an ANN Managing Editor seems to make things pretty clear, given how the staff there often get inside information on what's going on in the industry.

I suppose it may be hard to believe given my well-documented attitude towards Simoun, but I'm honestly not trying to have a "nyaa-nya-nya nyaa-nya" moment here. I thought about posting this when I read it first, but held back precisely because of my history here. But just now when I posted in another topic and said something to Kaoru Chujo that had to do with our Simoun thread history, I was reminded of this and changed my mind. Good or bad, you guys would probably want to know; and after all, this is applicable to other similar licensing experiments as well.
yononaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-20, 18:08   Link #2869
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
The post that you linked to doesn't seem to be as significant as you allude. The emphatic part of the post is to emphasize that there's no solid information about how well the Simoun DVDs sold, and that anecdotal information is of questionable value. If Media Blasters had expected that Simoun would get great sales, they would have released a dub for it. Since they didn't, it's obvious that they knew that its sales would be modest at best. I don't expect Simoun's sales to be very good either, but this post doesn't prove anything either way.

There are a couple of rules of thumb to note here:
1. Even if information comes from a reputable source, it doesn't carry all that much weight unless it has a link to verifiable facts. The reason here is that words aren't precise, and it's possible to misread them.

2. DVD sales in North America are private information (with the partial exception of Funimation), and there are only two ways to find out what they are. Either the licensor releases the information, or it has to come from resellers. In the case of the former, you'll only hear about when a series does well, never when it does poorly, and in the case of the latter, the information is usually very localized (sales at a particular store, for example). If someone is privy to priviledged sales information, you can bet that that person won't reveal it, because they would be in deep doo doo.

As far as licensing experiments go, R1 companies still do it to a fair degree (Marimite season 4 for example), so it seems to be either a viable move, or it makes the best of a bad economy.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-20, 18:45   Link #2870
yononaka
nani ni tatoemu
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
@4Tran: Maybe (and you'll note I used rather tentative language), it's just that if the "no real information" angle was all she was trying to convey, I could think of ways less suggestive of "I know how it is [on good authority], I just can't straight out tell you". Also, I think "commercially successful" in this context doesn't necessarily mean "great sales", more like "the opposite of losing money", because she also uses "commercially viable".

In any case, this may mean something and that was reason enough for me to bring it up. And even if it means nothing, at least those who disagree with my interpretation get to say this can't be so and reaffirm their love for Simoun.

(BTW, I think your #1 rule (as worded) seems a bit excessive because of #2. With these two rules, even if a company president came out and said something sold well/badly, it wouldn't count unless he/she showed the balance sheets. Edit: As for not revealing privileged information, I'd be surprised if you've never seen company reps or their media friends use round-about implication to convey information they're not supposed to reveal directly, including sales information. Which doesn't necessarily mean this is such a case, but it could be. Those with enough interest could ask the ANN person to clarify.)

Last edited by yononaka; 2009-02-20 at 19:09.
yononaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-20, 19:18   Link #2871
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
@4Tran: Maybe (and you'll note I used rather tentative language), it's just that if the "no real information" angle was all she was trying to convey, I could think of ways less suggestive of "I know how it is [on good authority], I just can't straight out tell you". Also, I think "commercially successful" in this context doesn't necessarily mean "great sales", more like "the opposite of losing money", because she also uses "commercially viable".
You're still reading way too much into a relatively innocuous statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
In any case, this may mean something and that was reason enough for me to bring it up. And even if it means nothing, at least those who disagree with my interpretation get to say this can't be so and reaffirm their love for Simoun.
I like Simoun a lot, but I still think that it was a risky license. There's only a tenuous relationship between liking the show and thinking that it would be successful. What you're doing is to start a rumor that doesn't have any basis in facts, and that's something I strongly frown upon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
(BTW, I think your #1 rule (as worded) seems a bit excessive because of #2. With these two rules, even if a company president came out and said something sold well/badly, it wouldn't count unless he/she showed the balance sheets. )
While your example is tongue-in-cheek, it's sometimes an accurate reflection of how things work in the real world. Just recently, we've had Bank of America spokespeople saying that "we're well-capitalized", even though everyone knows that the opposite is true.

Rule 1 is the skepticism that should be applied to any piece of information found on the internet (or anywhere else for that matter). It also works as a matter of degree, so that the more reasonable the claim, the less supporting evidence is required, and the more reliable the speaker, the less evidence is required.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-20, 19:42   Link #2872
yononaka
nani ni tatoemu
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
You're still reading way too much into a relatively innocuous statement.
That's your opinion.

Quote:
What you're doing is to start a rumor that doesn't have any basis in facts, and that's something I strongly frown upon.
If you think I'm rumor-mongering without reasonable cause, please just go ahead and use your prerogative to delete this whole exchange instead of saying things like this. Seriousy. FYI, I did not "allude" to anything the way you said in your first response, I stated my honest interpretation in tentative/non-confrontational terms. I didn't say "BIG NEWS JUST IN! SIMOUN BOMBED IN R1!" or any such crap. If you think this isn't noteworthy, that's perfectly fine with me, but do stop suggesting mala fide on my part. I'd much rather have you say I'm stupid for interpreting that post the way I have if that's what you think.
yononaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-20, 23:48   Link #2873
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
If you think I'm rumor-mongering without reasonable cause, please just go ahead and use your prerogative to delete this whole exchange instead of saying things like this.
Even if I don't think that the link is newsworthy, I don't mind if other posters decide to check it out. As long as they understand the context, I'm pretty sure that it won't produce any undue pessimism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
Seriousy. FYI, I did not "allude" to anything the way you said in your first response, I stated my honest interpretation in tentative/non-confrontational terms. I didn't say "BIG NEWS JUST IN! SIMOUN BOMBED IN R1!" or any such crap. If you think this isn't noteworthy, that's perfectly fine with me, but do stop suggesting mala fide on my part. I'd much rather have you say I'm stupid for interpreting that post the way I have if that's what you think.
I'm not implying that you are acting out of malice at all though. What I'm saying is that while your intentions are genuine, you're blowing a simple statement out of proportion, and that this amounts to creating a rumor. Moreover, it isn't necessary to adopt hysterics to spread a rumor - a calm tone can produce the same effect. Again, I don't think that you're trying to trick anyone, so you don't have to take my statements so personally.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-21, 00:54   Link #2874
yononaka
nani ni tatoemu
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Even if I don't think that the link is newsworthy, I don't mind if other posters decide to check it out. As long as they understand the context, I'm pretty sure that it won't produce any undue pessimism.
Heh, thanks for that generous allowance. Pardon the sarcasm, but really, even if it's not newsworthy, at the most it's going to cost people a minute or two of their time to read and evaluate it as they see fit. There hardly seems to be a need to write up guidelines for how to interpret what's written there.

And why should it produce pessimism to begin with, even assuming it's 100% solid? It's not as though there was some great bright future yet to come for Simoun (AFAIK, anyway). Are you talking about the potential for other similar experimental licenses?

Quote:
I'm not implying that you are acting out of malice at all though. What I'm saying is that while your intentions are genuine, you're blowing a simple statement out of proportion, and that this amounts to creating a rumor. Moreover, it isn't necessary to adopt hysterics to spread a rumor - a calm tone can produce the same effect. Again, I don't think that you're trying to trick anyone, so you don't have to take my statements so personally.
Believe me, I would much prefer not to take them personally and avoid the drama, but saying "what you're doing is to start a rumor that doesn't have any basis in facts", for me, amounts to suggesting bad faith, since I happen to have pretty strong views myself against starting baseless rumors. So, what appears to be a suggestion that I'd deliberately do it myself is not something I could let pass unchallenged. (The funny thing is, without knowing what the facts are, that statement is also fallacious. ) I appreciate that you don't mean to suggest ill will, but it kind of worked out that way here.

Also, I have to wonder, how is it that I could blow this out of proportion to begin with if most people would think like you do and consider this not newsworthy? I couldn't very well start a rumor if my thinking is so obviously baseless as you seem to think.

Anyway, I think I'd better not look at this thread for at least a few days, because the last thing I wanted to do was getting into the kind of argument we're having here now... It's not exactly on topic, is it? Oddly enough, I usually like reading your reasoning, but getting to talking to you, we're having this problem... Go figure.
yononaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-21, 01:07   Link #2875
musouka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
Heh, thanks for that generous allowance. Pardon the sarcasm, but really, even if it's not newsworthy, at the most it's going to cost people a minute or two of their time to read and evaluate it as they see fit. There hardly seems to be a need to write up guidelines for how to interpret what's written there.
Did I miss something? This person is not a MB spokesperson, and is speaking in generalized speculation about fansubs as a whole. This goes beyond rumors and non rumors to "why are you even linking this?" Some random yahoo questions whether Simoun was profitable in R1 in a fansub debate on another board. I guess I'll go onto AoD and post that Simoun made a bazillion dollars so the opposition has non-news to post in response.
__________________
雨の日も晴れの日も
いつの日も愛してた
それだけは 今もまだ
ずっと変りはしない
musouka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-21, 01:17   Link #2876
yononaka
nani ni tatoemu
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
God, I knew I shouldn't have looked back in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Did I miss something? This person is not a MB spokesperson, and is speaking in generalized speculation about fansubs as a whole. This goes beyond rumors and non rumors to "why are you even linking this?" Some random yahoo questions whether Simoun was profitable in R1 in a fansub debate on another board. I guess I'll go onto AoD and post that Simoun made a bazillion dollars so the opposition has non-news to post in response.
I thought I said pretty clearly that this person, as an ANN editor, has just a tad more industry knowledge credibility in my eyes than just "some random yahoo". If you don't think so, suit yourself. Sorry for having wasted your time, espcially since we all know there's a requirement that only 100% fact-checked hard news be posted around here...

Edit: Just so we're all clear here: the reason I didn't just take what she said as a generalized speculation is that back when that thread was active, I read thought all of it (the masochist that I am), and that statement, and the way she said it compared to some other things she said there, stood out as significant for me in the context of everything else there (and still does). It's conceivable that I wouldn't take it that way if I just glanced over that post and a bit of the thread (as people are likely to do), but right now I still see no compelling reason to abandon my interpretation.

And I'm sure as hell entitled to link to what I consider relevant just as much as anyone else is.

Last edited by yononaka; 2009-02-21 at 01:47.
yononaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-21, 01:40   Link #2877
musouka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
I thought I said pretty clearly that this person, as an ANN editor, has just a tad more industry knowledge credibility in my eyes than just "some random yahoo". If you don't think so, suit yourself. Sorry for having wasted your time, espcially since we all know there's a requirement that only 100% fact-checked hard news be posted around here...
Yes, "just a tad more" is about right. But, you know, next time you want to post news, you might want to make sure it's actually, y'know, news instead of "people don't always buy things they've seen fansubbed" with some series you have a hate on for as the hypothetical example.
__________________
雨の日も晴れの日も
いつの日も愛してた
それだけは 今もまだ
ずっと変りはしない
musouka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-21, 01:59   Link #2878
yononaka
nani ni tatoemu
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Yes, "just a tad more" is about right. But, you know, next time you want to post news, you might want to make sure it's actually, y'know, news instead of "people don't always buy things they've seen fansubbed" with some series you have a hate on for as the hypothetical example.
FYI, I have no hate for Simoun, I have a morbid fascination with it and (less morbidly) its phenomenon; and I have a certain affinity with this thread here despite hardly being a fan of the show, because an interesting discussion of interesting ideas -- like those had here -- gets detached from the feelings about the source material. You don't have to believe me, of course, but you really don't need to typecast me as an enemy of Simoun fans or whatever... (And see my edit to the previous post if you didn't.)
yononaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-21, 03:51   Link #2879
Zippicus
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit, MI
So basically what this amounts to is someone on the internet said something vague without any relevant information provided to back up their statement. Well it wouldn't be the first time
Zippicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-02-24, 07:59   Link #2880
gaguri
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Just in case anyone is interested, I found a blog article on Simoun. It has something to do with Ri Maajons and why Yuri is arguably the most pure and sacred form of love.

http://guriguriblog.wordpress.com/20...-lesbian-love/
__________________
gaguri is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
drama, science fiction, yuri

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.