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Old 2006-09-12, 16:40   Link #1641
metronome
Mad Loli
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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this one looks like vandal heart, or may be more to front mission?
too bad I dont have a chance to buy that from japan:P since it seems like this game is japan only
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Old 2006-09-12, 16:40   Link #1642
Kaoru Chujo
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Thanks again to wowo. I really enjoyed watching ep24 with her subtitles.
Spoiler for ep24:
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Old 2006-09-12, 17:45   Link #1643
metronome
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hey, I spotted something wrong to episode 24

Spoiler:


or may be it's just oh well my imagination? may be she move inside after that?
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Old 2006-09-12, 17:58   Link #1644
FatPianoBoy
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Indeed. Much kudos for the subtitles. My japanese is limited, so my enjoyment without them is also limited.

Spoiler:


It seems like they're going to keep us guessing on pairings until the very end (except for AaeRil).
And if Anglus piloting the Simoun at the ruins is never explained, I'm gonna strangle someone. It's too much 'WTF?!?' to let slide.

It seems like the ending is going to make or break this series. It feels like we're being set up for something epic and great, but we shall see.
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Old 2006-09-12, 18:17   Link #1645
m000m000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wowo
Hopefully, the ending for this show will be amazing (I'm starting to get a bit skeptical, but hopefully the creators are succeeding in tricking me somehow), and sales will gradually go up.
As much as I love AS's drawings, I have a feeling they put off people who would actually enjoy the show (especially the DVD covers). Also, I think the show is slightly mundane... they really could have pushed it up a notch somewhere, whether it be script, or visuals. Don't get me wrong, it's great stuff, but I was hoping for something that'll last for 10 years+, and I dunno, I feel like it's not doing that so far. Maybe they're trying to do too much, and they're stretching it?
We'll see.
I'm not sure.

Personally for me this show has exceeded any and all expectations that I originally had towards it (which, admittedly, were very low ), and even managed to keep up with the ones I've conjured as the show's gone on, so I'm quite happy with it. It's been on a continual upward climb ever since I got addicted to it, though did kind of reach a 'plateu' as of late regarding that.
Depending on how well they manage to do the ending, I can very well see this show jumping up into my top-5 personal favourites, but even without that it's already made a very lasting impression on me personally (as you can probably see from my random ramblings about the characters in this thread every now and then ).

If I look at the thing critically though, as in what I'd try to improve, the first thing is the very confusing episode 1 and the on-following introduction which is a bit hackenyed.
I'll also have to agree that the directing is at times a bit a bit on the weak side of things, but overall it still gets a passing judgement - That's not to say there wouldn't be room for improvement, though. The art, well, it's standard Studio Deen -fare, so no need to comment on that .
I just hope the poor DVD sales won't keep them from re-working the worst parts of that for the later DVD volumes as with the first one...


Story and character-wise, I think they've done what they set out to do as well as they could possibly do it. At least, I have a hard time (other than maybe waking the sleeping flower-girl, but that's just the evil gushy fanboy in me speaking his wanton wishes ) coming up with anything I'd do different.

Pacing-wise there's some minor issues but nothing too bad (the start, again), and the writing's been generally solid (I mostly blame the directing for the most immidiate faults in the storytelling).
The worst thing in this regard I feel actually is the most recent episodes - They sort of ended winding the emotional stake all the way up to the stratosphere with episodes 16-21, so the still very good and enjoyable but not as totally "ZOMG!" episodes as of late feel perhaps don't always hit home as strongley as they could because they'll be forever in shadow of the peak.
That, and at the same time in parallel the story's taken a natural turn for the slower too with the plot developments in 21+, which only furhers to underline the previous thing. While episode 25 will probably pick things up a bit, one shouldn't expect anything grand there - event-wise, that is.
As I said already at the end of Episode 22, there will be no grand battles in this series anymore - But, that was never what this show was about. I do hope though, that there are some grand emotions in store for us, despite us having a relatively good idea how the end will play out. In that aspect, I'm laying a lot of hope on the final episode, which for all bits and purposes seems to be a dedicated epilogue, judging from the name and the short spoiler-bit posted some pages ago. By default long and proper epilogues are always awsome, purely because they're so extremely rare

By contrast, most other shows, tend to keep the steam running on high-pressure to the very final moments. That is not to say one couldn't have a slowly downwinding ending, it's just that it's something that's way harder to do right than the standard "CLIMAX! *splooge* Ok, here's a 1½ minute denoument and ending credits, kthx!!1".
Even Planetes, another show with rather sedate pacing at the start reserves its entire last episode as a form of epilogue (and it is, in my opinion, one of the greatest and best done anime endings ever), but in contrast to Simoun it keeps the steam pumped up all the way to that point, and in fact ends episode 25 with one of the most evil cliffhangers ever .


Discounting just outright bad and non-endings, I don't think I can recall a show at quick that'd done its ending in such a similar manner, if this all plays out in the 'slowly-winding-down-with-slight-speedbump-ahead'-manner as I estimate it to go.
And speaking of that, I don't think I can name having watched another show either where the story technically ends with
Spoiler:



So in summarization; A very positive surprise, and overall a good and solid series, with arguebly some slight flaws here and there. Overall verdict still says "definitvely good stuff".

As for lasting 10 years, I don't think the show, good as it is, ever had a chance to do that - For something to last 10 years we're talking shows like Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop and Ghost In the Shell.
It's just not wide-appealing enough. Even if Simoun would have done everything it set out do perfectly in execution, it still would probably not be one of the kind to last 10 years - It's just doesn't have a base for that sort of widespread appeal, nor is it controversial enough to create excessive appeal beyond its set niché.

But, if we get a good-to-awsome ending, I'd say we got something that's in-line for falling into the favourites of many and something to be remembered as a paragon show of its own genre (...I'm not going to try to define what that is, though ). even some years down the road.
And for a show that on the surface started out as an overt Yuri+Mecha gimmicky moe-marketing device, I'd say that's coming quite a long way from where the proposed origins would have led one to belive the show would end up .




Re: DVDs; personally, since the Simoun-Fans ' scripts are freely downloadable for everyone, I'd buy the R2s in a heartbeat - If only they weren't priced like R2s. 13x50 USD is 650 bucks, and for that I can get 3-5 domestically released series if I buy them as they come out (nevermind the cheapo bricks). If they'd be priced more like movies in the ~4700 yen range I could perhaps stomach it barely, but 6800 volume just goes way over any and all of my personal budget limits

I guess 2nd-hand would always be an option, but that needs both time and patience. Of course, a US license would be a most splendid option, but while I don't think it's impossible, or even strange if it would be picked up, I'm not holding up any extra flags of hope regarding that matter. I guess we'll have to wait for the con-season next year until any potential news on that front, though.





Spoiler:


Haha, that would be all kinds of awsome, though, I think. I mean, is there anyone here who's even given the thing a 2nd thought?
An interesting obeservation, though. Will have to try to keep an eye on it myself if it continues next episode.

Spoiler:

Last edited by m000m000; 2006-09-12 at 19:12.
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Old 2006-09-12, 19:12   Link #1646
m000m000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo
Thanks again to wowo. I really enjoyed watching ep24 with her subtitles.
Spoiler for ep24:



I'm sort of interested in the PS2 game, but seeing as games based on anime almost always tend to unversally suck, I'm not holding my hopes up or putting down any money until I hear some actual comments on the thing. The Sakura Taisen games are favourites of mine though, so if they've actually conjured up something good in that vein, I'll be all over it. But until I hear some good news on this subject, excuse my heavy skepticism...




Quote:
Originally Posted by warainagara
Inspired by m000m000's and Kaoru Chujo's posts,
Spoiler:
That is, a quite excellent summarization of things, I think. An applause and internets for you, and also quoted because good reads bear repeating .




On the subject of next episode;
Spoiler for preview for ep25:
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Old 2006-09-12, 19:32   Link #1647
Matrim
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I'd like to thank wowo yet again.

Kind of controversial episode. On the one hand it just seemed that something was missing (the burden of the great expectations?), as mentioned some of the voices sounded weird, the music seemed out of place at some points and so on. On the other hand this could be great setup for the next two episodes

Spoiler:


Anyway, while episode 24 might be deemed to be disappointing in the grand scale of thing it did have the kind of small, seemingly not that significant emotional moments that I am loving more and more as I rewatch some of the older episodes. Moments like Rodoreamon hiding her fear of thunderstorms in episode 12 by trying to calm down Rimone who wasn't afraid at all. And while the main plotline might in the end turn out to be disappointing, things like that will make me remember Simoun fondly for a long time, I think.
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Old 2006-09-12, 21:08   Link #1648
warainagara
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Spoiler for Aaeru:
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Last edited by warainagara; 2006-09-12 at 21:19.
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Old 2006-09-12, 23:35   Link #1649
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
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I loved the lightheartedness of the crew on their last day on the Prima, and on the train. It might have seemed too lighthearted, but a lot of them had been looking forward to this day, and those feelings could now be released. The lightheartedness felt like a form of panic, too. Maybe nothing dramatic, but there are lots of touching moments: Rodore bowing, Paraietta carving in the wall, with Morinas eagerly watching, Paraietta and Kaimu dancing, Furoe...being Furoe.

And especially Yun speaking with Rodore and realizing what she could do. Her departure seemed sudden, but I do think some things happen that way in this show. The characters do their thinking almost in secret and then act unexpectedly. Neviril's confession falls into this category. We could say that it is insufficiently prepared in the script, or we could say that it is at a high level and demands something of the audience.

As I tried to say before, these are not exactly human beings. I am chalking up some of the strangeness of their reactions to that. Aaeru's exotic angst didn't really seem out of character. She's like a twelve-year-old boy, both as a gung-ho fighter and in her romantic bafflement.

I don't get the idea that the voices sounded weird. In what way? The music was sometimes "out of place," but that is part of its art. The music is constantly playing against the action in this show. I remember people condemning it for that after ep1. How was this episode any different? I really think Simoun has one of the best scores I've ever heard. EDIT: I just watched 24 again, and I take one thing back. In this episode, the music is more of a match to the action/emotion, rather than playing against it. That could make the episode feel less complex.

I have probably watched episode one ten times by now, and love it more and more. But it was not so easy to grasp at first, I admit. Now, the scene of Neviril parading forward with such misplaced confidence, with the baroque music and the proud acolytes and the adoring crowd, to jump up and kiss Amuria, is one of my favorite scenes in all anime. Even Furoe standing pertly on her Simoun gives me a thrill. But the one thing above all that makes that episode unique is the fact that one of the principal characters actually dies. Right there in episode one. And she has hovered invisibly over the action right up to episode 24, like the ghost of Hamlet's father.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metronome
hey, I spotted something wrong to episode 24
Spoiler:
or may be it's just oh well my imagination? may be she move inside after that?
Yes, that looks like poor continuity to me, too:
Spoiler:
I expect this show to "last ten years" for me, but since it hasn't lasted ten minutes for most people, I guess it's not going to be considered a classic. Unless more people suddenly "get it," lol.

Sorry to go on and on. Just thinking out loud.
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characters/seiyuus: | Mahouka Koukou | Glasslip | Tokyo Ghoul | Sailor Moon Crystal | Locodol | Ao Haru Ride | Hanayamata | Aldnoah.Zero | Nozaki-kun | Magimoji Rurumo | Zankyou no Terror | Tokyo ESP | Rokujouma no Shinryakusha | Love Stage!! | Jinsei | Rail Wars | Blade Dance | Himegoto

Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2006-09-13 at 04:36.
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Old 2006-09-13, 03:27   Link #1650
Key Board
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The theocracy has arrogant and inept leaders, but they did not start this war.

Argentum attacked them because they want the helical motoris.

Plumblum declared war for religious reasons.

And now their priestesses are forced to retire, and are to be replaced by Plumblum priesstess for their ceremonial duties.

I don't know about you, but that sounds like ingredients for an ugly religious war If you ask me.

In real life parallels that would be equivalent to forcing the Japanese Emperor down from the throne after the United States won the war. (which was suggested, but they didn't do, thankfully. Thank MacArthur for doing his research)
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Old 2006-09-13, 06:23   Link #1651
m000m000
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I think it helps if you view the religious issue as Catholics Vs. Protestants or Orthodox. They're all still christians, have their origin and faith in the exact same thing and doctorine-wise there's scare few real differencies (That's not to say ugly wars havn't been fought over that already, but... ).

That is, I don't think it's really that bad. Though for any supposed theocracy, by the very definition of the word, such an action would of course be the utter and total death of said theocracy. Of course, Simulacrum's not a 'real' theocracy but "Shrine Nation", as the literal translation went .
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Old 2006-09-13, 07:50   Link #1652
Matrim
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Spoiler:
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Old 2006-09-13, 08:05   Link #1653
Simon
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(Quoting out of order, gomen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m000m000
Re: DVDs; personally, since the Simoun-Fans ' scripts are freely downloadable for everyone, I'd buy the R2s in a heartbeat - If only they weren't priced like R2s. 13x50 USD is 650 bucks, and for that I can get 3-5 domestically released series if I buy them as they come out (nevermind the cheapo bricks). If they'd be priced more like movies in the ~4700 yen range I could perhaps stomach it barely, but 6800 volume just goes way over any and all of my personal budget limits
It's actually nine DVDs (two episodes on the first disc, then three thereafter), and Amazon JP is your friend: they offer 25% discount on pre-orders, so you can currently order Volume 2 and Volume 3 for "only" Y5100 (the prices shown on their site include 5% domestic sales tax).

Yes, that's still non-trivial if you convert it back into your own currency (hint: don't do that), but it's absolutely worth it. So you go hungry for a while - eventually you'll regain the weight you lost, and you'll still have those gorgeous DVDs

Seriously though, it sounds horribly materialistic to say this but the most practical way we can support this magnificent anime is to vote with our wallets. (Well OK, I intend to sit down with my dictionary when the series is over and write the staff at Studio Deen an ありがとうございました postcard - anything to let them know how much their work has touched a far-away life... But besides from giving them a giggle at my appalling Japanese, that's not really going to achieve much.)

Even putting such principles aside, the R2s are a treasure worth collecting - my copy of Volume 1 arrived yesterday, and they've done an exquisite job on the packaging. The VA game-show is a delight to watch (as on-disc extras go I'd put it up there with Hane Haeterun? and the Noir sock-puppets). I just hope someone's crazy enough to sub it!

The booklet is also lovely, but even more than the aesthetics it's the attention to detail that I adore - the character listings include all the nameless Sybillae from ep 1 and even the renshūseitachi (trainees). It's the same as with the OSTs, you feel like they've really made an effort to give fans their money's worth - which is more than I can say for a lot of anime merchandise...

Quote:
If I look at the thing critically though, as in what I'd try to improve, the first thing is the very confusing episode 1 and the on-following introduction which is a bit hackenyed.
Having just watched eps1-2 on the DVD, I feel you're being a tad harsh. Yes, ep1 leaves a huge amount unanswered, but it works for me very much like ep1 of Haibane Renmei - its shadow remains as the story moves on, then you watch it again knowing what happens later and every moment is painful in its understated significance. Similarly, I reckon Shakugan no Shana introduced nearly as much jargon in its first couple of episodes and that doesn't seem to have stopped people enjoying it.

Spoiler:

Quote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:

Spoiler for ep24:

Last edited by Simon; 2006-09-13 at 08:16.
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Old 2006-09-13, 08:48   Link #1654
Seska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JiCi
Hope that help !


According to this, it appears to be a tactical RPG where to control each ship including the Messis and the Arcus Prima. It uses levels, hps and stuff. I presume that whoever is in the front of the Simoun, like Ael, with affect the movements and whoever is in the back of the Simoun, like Neviril, with attack powers and pattern strengths. The last screenshot looks good

From the looks of it, the game is set at least after Episode 10, as Rodreamon has cut her braids.
I would buy this game, but only if it comes to the US... Cause i cant read Katakana, Hiragana and Kanji. Yes, im a Romanji reader

if the game hits US , i import it right away to Germany

Or does someone here knows "LittelTokyo" in Duesseldorf Germany?

and for the Game. Someone knows "Stella Deus"? Great Story, great game. I loved to play it trough. (Yes, i have a PS2, too.)

Mfg,
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Old 2006-09-13, 10:33   Link #1655
fignae
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The thought that the show is going to end depresses me, hence the hiding from this board. The feeling of being split between episodes is very disorienting, too. Yet another part of me can't wait till it ends so I can properly watch it in order from the beginning. I wonder if Simoun works better seen weekly or as a whole. Despite its episodic nature (scenes are short and appear self-contained), the story arcs do span many episodes and often return in the form of echoes, refrains that are variations of the same, with significant differences. I digress. I meant to say that I've enjoyed reading the many paeans to the series, like Simon's above. (Of course, I had to typo the name....) Nevertheless, I'll definitely be wanting to know what the seiyuu do next.

Therefore, somewhat OT news:
Part of the new anime season, Ayakashi Ayashi (天保異聞 妖奇士) appears to be yet another Edo period drama with heroes fighting demons. But what's interesting is Niino Michi's involvement in this series. The website says that her character, Saizou, was born in a Kabuki house and raised as a boy in order for her to take over the household, so her mannerisms are those of a boy. This character uses Kabuki props to fight monsters.

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Old 2006-09-13, 11:16   Link #1656
Mgz
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seems like the show is gonna have a sad ending I guess T_T...awww

btw girl kissing each others then kissing some ballz rocks
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Old 2006-09-13, 11:17   Link #1657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eggplant
Let's just say it's at a level which would prove difficult to warrant a sequel, as it would be below the break-even threshold for anime production cost.
As sad as I'm going to be in three weeks when there's no new Simoun episode, I don't think I'd want a sequel, assuming that my supposition that the series is going to come to a very definite ending is correct. A Simoun sequel would be like a Babylon 5 sequel (or Lain, or Haibane Renmei) -- the series told its story very completely, and ended, and there isn't really room for a true sequel. And we're getting a retrospective ending from years later, anyway.

A movie or short OAV series that told a prequel story, or a gaiden story set between episodes 2 and 6 or 9 and 12, might work, or an entirely separate story set on Daikuuriku, but as it is, Simoun seems just right. If they'd planned the thing to be 39 episodes from the beginning, that would have been another matter, but it would be hard to add to the main narrative itself.
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Old 2006-09-13, 11:24   Link #1658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo
Spoiler for ep24:
Spoiler for episode 17:
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Old 2006-09-13, 12:47   Link #1659
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m000m000
I think it helps if you view the religious issue as Catholics Vs. Protestants or Orthodox. They're all still christians, have their origin and faith in the exact same thing and doctrine-wise there's scarce few real differences (That's not to say ugly wars haven't been fought over that already, but... )....
Unfortunately, the 16th and 17th centuries were filled with Protestant and Catholic "Christians" killing each other with great enthusiasm. I actually don't expect that to be part of the plot here, but in reality it probably could be. The Temple One has left Arcus Prima. Where did she go? What is she up to? Resistance?

Thanks, fignae, for the link to the new show Niino Michi is in. For her sake, I hate the thought that she's already typecast as a seiyuu. For my own sake I very much look forward to hearing her (as long as I can stand the show).

And thanks, Simon, for your post. I agree so wholeheartedly about episode 2. The Spring scene was overwhelming. Just thinking about the way Takahashi Rieko delivered that "omedetou" sends chills down my spine. Her speech to Aaeru in ep24 was also full of artistry and power. She apparently got good reviews for her part in recent stage performances of Goethe's Faust. The two leads in Simoun are both stage actresses, and it shows. The acting in this show was generally great: a combination of stage actresses (also Hosokoshi Michiko, who played Kaimu), good seiyuus (Koshimizu Ami, Toyoguchi Megumi, Kuwashima Houko, Yukana, Noto Mamiko and Takahashi Mikako are quite a line-up), and a grating but effective rookie (Furoe's VA, Aizawa Michiuru).
Quote:
Originally Posted by fignae, quoted for truth
...the story arcs do span many episodes and often return in the form of echoes, refrains that are variations of the same, with significant differences....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futaba-chan
One of the things that I thought worked brilliantly was how empty the return to the Arcus Prima felt after Dominura and Limone's disappearance....
Subtle things like that help make this show great. Things that aren't emphasized, or even mentioned, but that burrow into your psyche.
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MINASE Inori 水瀬いのり age 18. 2010 Occult Academy (Akari). 2011 Uta no Prince-sama 1000% (students). 2012 Nukko (Sumire), Symphogear (minor roles). 2013 Love Lab (Suzu), Super Seisyun Brothers (Kohara Shiyo). 2014 Robot Girls Z (Gre-chan), Nobunaga The Fool (Chibihane, Toku), Black Bullet (Mibu), Is the order a rabbit? (Chino), Sugar Soldier (Kisaragi Makoto), Gargantia OVA (Rima), Locodol (Mirai), Aldnoah.Zero (Eddelrittuo), Sora no Method (Noel).
Hashihime blog | Twitter @nakanokimi | summer 2014 previews | summer 2014 schedule |
characters/seiyuus: | Mahouka Koukou | Glasslip | Tokyo Ghoul | Sailor Moon Crystal | Locodol | Ao Haru Ride | Hanayamata | Aldnoah.Zero | Nozaki-kun | Magimoji Rurumo | Zankyou no Terror | Tokyo ESP | Rokujouma no Shinryakusha | Love Stage!! | Jinsei | Rail Wars | Blade Dance | Himegoto
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Old 2006-09-13, 14:32   Link #1660
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
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Futaba-chan's unanswered questions

I was just wondering if the show had eventually answered the questions we had early on. I've taken the liberty of recovering Futaba-chan's list of questions from Yui's page and posting them here for us to consider again, in case we have new answers now. And I've taken the further liberty of editing some of the answers, to update them and for brevity.
Spoiler for unanswered questions. Some spoilers for eps 23-24:
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MINASE Inori 水瀬いのり age 18. 2010 Occult Academy (Akari). 2011 Uta no Prince-sama 1000% (students). 2012 Nukko (Sumire), Symphogear (minor roles). 2013 Love Lab (Suzu), Super Seisyun Brothers (Kohara Shiyo). 2014 Robot Girls Z (Gre-chan), Nobunaga The Fool (Chibihane, Toku), Black Bullet (Mibu), Is the order a rabbit? (Chino), Sugar Soldier (Kisaragi Makoto), Gargantia OVA (Rima), Locodol (Mirai), Aldnoah.Zero (Eddelrittuo), Sora no Method (Noel).
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2006-09-13 at 15:13.
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