[Spoilers] Jiraiya Genius?

[AkatsukisApprentice]

Hmm, I think Jiraiya is just a perverted genius rather than anything great lol...well he was known as the "the village's(Konoha's) insanity"
as Oro had stated. But other than being a really good ninja he really hasn't shown that he is a genius in any particular field.

[s-class uchiha]

Originally Posted by AkatsukisApprentice

Hmm, I think Jiraiya is just a perverted genius rather than anything great lol...well he was known as the "the village's(Konoha's) insanity"
as Oro had stated. But other than being a really good ninja he really hasn't shown that he is a genius in any particular field.

You're kidding right?

The debate here is not about whether Jiraiya is off the charts - I'm sure both sides agree that he is. The debate here is if does things are due to hardwork or genius (and on the side at what age did he display such talent).

[UberDork]

Originally Posted by s-class uchiha

Have ppl been questioning if Jiraiya was a genius or not?

He's definitely a genius.

He is more a pervert and a failure if you would compare him to rock lee or sasuke

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by UberDork

He is more a pervert and a failure if you would compare him to rock lee or sasuke

Rock Lee? There doesn't exist anyone less talented than him.

[FireDetei]

How can u call Jiraiya a failure? Everyone outside of the village who he "scuffles with" shit themselves when they realise who they are dealing with, and he has huge amounts of respect from those within the village.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by UberDork

He is more a pervert and a failure if you would compare him to rock lee or sasuke

No no no no...i disagree...he is quite good...he is one of the strongest or the strongest remaining in Konoha. Regardless of his time as a genin (failure) he grew to an excellent ninja. A ninja which is hard to compare to any ninja.

[.opi]

well i would say just because you're a dropout as a kid doesnt mean you arent a genius............in the real world just look at einstein, dropped out of school........yet no one hesitates to call him a genius, hell he's like the definition of a genius.

same goes for jiraiya i think (and naruto later on) because they were probably both just "late bloomers".............if jiraiya got to his level right now (as a legendary sannin) from pure hard work, then it'd be saying that its possible for anyone who works hard, which isnt true, because the sannin, or kage's, or akatsuki people, come around once in a lifetime...........(not literally)

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Cant disagree with that...humans do posses latent talent...talent which can be triggered at a certain location, motivation or even emotion.

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Rock Lee? There doesn't exist anyone less talented than him.

-Tell me anyone besides his sensei who opened 5 gates.
-He mastered primary and secondary lotus as the single member of his team.

I wouldn't call that "not talented".

[s-class uchiha]

Is it just me or didn't everyone else think that the Sannin were some crazy geniuses b4 they were shown in the series and basically equal to each other?

Did ppl really think... hmmm the legendary 3 - one must be a genius, one must be avg ., one must be a loser who worked hard.

This is a genuine question not a comment btw ie I just wanted to know your initial impressions.

[Salsa]

I was just trolling through this thread, and something just bugs the crap out of me. Does a genius have to be a lazy person who doesn't work at all? It is like, they show promise, but oh no! He just practiced, he isn't a genius any more.
Also, don't you guys remember the good old days of Naruto vs. Sasuke? They switched back and forth who was stronger almost every other episode in the anime. They would train the same amount, but one would be more determined one day, and be stronger, next day the other would. Yet some how, both of them working the same amount, Sasuke is considered a genius, and Naruto is considered by some as nothign more then a hard worker, I just don't get that.
Jiraiya is legendary, who cares how he was as a kid, right now he is a genius.

[Rachy]

he was known as the "the village's(Konoha's) insanity

I wonder what would happen if Jiraiya did get really mad, with a name like that you'd think he becomes something scary >_<.

[mechwar666]

Actually if you think about it, he did develop the rasengan by himself. Only himself and the 4th hokage were able to use it before the coming of naruto. I guess that means something don't you. Besides he can summon a frogs stomach as a special summoning. thats not something thats written in the joinin final exam don't you think so????

[carb]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

We know that Itachi and Yondaime are genius Shinobi but like i said before we know little about them and should be carefull not to assume to fast.

As for Itachi i am even more positive he was taught moves or knowlegde about the Uchiha Clan by another person. Itachi spoke of the 3rd Mangekyou Sharingan user...a user which hasnt been introduced yet same as Yondaime (we only saw a tiny bit of him)

Those who arent introduced are definetly strong...and this 3rd user is probably busy with more important things then stealing demons obviously.

Both Yondaime and Itachi could've been taught some of their moves...
Honestly..if you think about Yondaime's character then there is no way he would/could invent Shiki Fuujin by himself.

Yondaime would invent something closer to an angel then the worst demon that sucks souls..

As for Itachi...I dont even think he is "that" evil..he has an ambition for more power..that 3rd user has alot to do with Itachi going nuts....Killing the whole Clan was probably a thing that Itachi didnt do...or alone.

with regards to the invention/discovery of the sucking demon,
considering what sarutobi said and the way he said it gave me the impression that yondaime was the first to discover the shiki fuujin. Otherwise sarutobi wouldn't have used yondaime as reference to the jutsu.

if i remembered correctly in the anime, sarutobi says someting like this:
"This is wat the 4th was talking about.."

Now we all know how young the 4th was. and if he was to learn the death god jutsu from someone else, wouldn't sarutobi been aware of that since he was hokage at the time. Now unless the 4th had been so secretive to the point that he had been able to avoid his sensei jiraiya and learn from another, then maybe there is a chance that the 4th learned it from somewhere. But thats highly unlikely imho.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by ri0

-Tell me anyone besides his sensei who opened 5 gates.
-He mastered primary and secondary lotus as the single member of his team.

I wouldn't call that "not talented".

He was called a genius of hard work, but a loser at jutsu.
If you say Lee is talented, then everyone is a genius.
He is simply good at what he does.
But that doesn't mean he is like Neji or Sasuke.
They both have strength that Lee could never surpass.

[ri0]

Simply good at what he does? Hmm sounds like a defintion of a genius^^
Again: THE ONLY ONE TO OPEN 5 GATES AND MASTER THE TWO LOTUSES!

"This isn't about hard work. That kid... he's a genius"

That's what Kakashi, Yondaime's pupil (!!!), said... You wouldn't doubt his words would ya?

[Yellow Flash]

The Lotus isn't a genius technique.
It is for those who don't have talent.

The Shishi Rendan is a genius taijutsu, and unlike the Lotus, very effective.

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

The Lotus isn't a genius technique.
It is for those who don't have talent.

That was said by you and was never stated in the manga... It's a fact that even a genius wasn't able to master it.

"This isn't about hard work. That kid... he's a genius"

That's what Kakashi, Yondaime's pupil (!!!), said... You wouldn't doubt his words would ya?

You overread the other part of my post.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by ri0

That was said by you and was never stated in the manga...

"This isn't about hard work. That kid... he's a genius"

That's what Kakashi, Yondaime's pupil (!!!), said... You wouldn't doubt his words would ya?

You overread the other part of my post.

Kakashi was just surprised that Lee can open 5 gates at this age.
The technique is for those who don't have talent.
If you would pay attention, this was stated in the manga.

To open the gates is cheating, as they remove the natural limits of your body.
This technique is only necessary for those who don't have talent as a ninja.

After Lee was pwned, Neji stated that Lee is an ignorant brat,
who couldn't accept that someone who doesn't have talent can't defeat Gaara.
This was after Lee used the Gates, your so-called "genius" technique.

It's a fact that even a genius wasn't able to master it.

Just as Sasuke wouldn't master the Rasengan, or Sakura's jutsu.
This is about being a certain "type", not about being a genius.

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Kakashi was just surprised that Lee can open 5 gates at this age.

And therefore he is a genius... "HE IS A GENIUS"
Quote from the manga... try to decline that

The technique is for those who don't have talent.
If you would pay attention, this was stated in the manga.

Show me the panel

To open the gates is cheating, as they remove the natural limits of your body.
This technique is only necessary for those who don't have talent as a ninja.

A normal human can't breath fire too... cheating?

After Lee was pwned, Neji stated that Lee is an ignorant brat,
who couldn't accept that someone who doesn't have talent can't defeat Gaara.
This was after Lee used the Gates, your so-called "genius" technique.

Only because Lee is beaten doesn't mean that you don't have to be a genius to master the technique. Or would you have said that Sasuke is no genius because Naruto made a larger hole in the water tank.

Just as Sasuke wouldn't master the Rasengan, or Sakura's jutsu.
This is about being a certain "type", not about being a genius.

Or you say one is a genius in this field and the other in that.