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Old 2009-03-24, 19:59   Link #541
pichu
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Join Date: Jul 2004
yes i typesetted Skip Beat 11 and 12... The signs are full of troubles, and would literally take me hours to get the jobs done without using Mocha.

... rotations, scaling, positions, and then there's also perspective scaling... I started using Mocha here, and it saves me a lot of time. On top of that, because mocha uses splines to smooth out the keyframes, they don't look t choppy in comparison to AE's default motion tracking, which would require manual tweaking.

Imagine this: you just need 5 minutes MAX to make this sign:

http://stats.pichu.org/sb11_mocha.avi

It will be worth your time to learn it!
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Old 2009-03-25, 03:05   Link #542
shinjipierre
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Paris, France
Age: 31
1. It slides.

2. Takes about 2 minutes to track.

3. Tracking isn't supposed to have smoothed splines, it's supposed to track the points... if it's choppy, just add more points and track in ping pong mode....

4. If you argue, i'll show you real restoration projects
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Old 2009-03-25, 03:09   Link #543
_Anakyn_
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Guys, is this Mocha?

http://mocha.rubyforge.org/

Or is this?

http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/mocha/

Or WTF is it? Forgive my ignorance, but what is the so called Mocha? Is it useful for TSers? Would it be useful, for instance, for a show like SZS?
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Old 2009-03-25, 04:21   Link #544
Noct
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Join Date: Mar 2009
http://www.imagineersystems.com/products/mocha/

That's mocha and it ships with After Effects CS4.

I've used mocha before and it was really helpful, but most of the time i still use the motion tracker within After Effects. But i'm interested in a tutorial myself... i watched the one available on creativecow and i wonder what else there is to mocha since the tutorial didn't cover much.

BTW, those tutorials are awesome crash-kun and kudos to pichu for creating the script. I'd love to see another version of the script preferable one that does not mind switching " with '
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Old 2009-03-25, 07:13   Link #545
dj_tjerk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinjipierre View Post
1. It slides.

2. Takes about 2 minutes to track.

3. Tracking isn't supposed to have smoothed splines, it's supposed to track the points... if it's choppy, just add more points and track in ping pong mode....

4. If you argue, i'll show you real restoration projects
Maybe I'm stupid, but are you talking about Mocha here? Also, the only "Ping Pong" setting in mocha I know, is the preview mode :?

Also shinjipierre, if you had to replace/remove the japanese text in this video (the text he points at), how would you go about doing that?
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Old 2009-03-25, 08:26   Link #546
pichu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinjipierre View Post
1. It slides.

2. Takes about 2 minutes to track.

3. Tracking isn't supposed to have smoothed splines, it's supposed to track the points... if it's choppy, just add more points and track in ping pong mode....

4. If you argue, i'll show you real restoration projects
Ok, consider I'm still arguing.
(so... show me those projects xD)

btw, by choppy, I mean that the object is bouncing, etc. By splines, I mean even if it "slides", it won't look that bad.

btw, dj, i think it would be edit the first frame, and then try to key over the hand and cover that first frame and move with the camera.

--

and Noct, I'll put the 1.00 beta privately, so only people who wanted to bug test the project can allow access... I'm trying to get someone else to help with the GUI (the XML treeview sample code will be a useful start for this project) so that I can concentrate writing the codes and algorithms. Before then, contact me for further suggestions and plans... And, I'll put you on the invite list in 2-3 months. Also, I can't guarantee that the script will run in CS3 since I'm using CS4 to test it, but it might be possible. AE7 is definitely a no-go. Remember, the more inputs and feedbacks I have, the faster the private beta will be out.
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Old 2009-03-26, 15:18   Link #547
shinjipierre
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Paris, France
Age: 31
ahah, I wonder why i typed that yesterday, must have been tired, mocha is great tool, better than the internal tracker of after effects.

as for the projects, I don't have the original shots here and can't get them out of my company that easily.... I have a cool one but can't show it before the "festival de cannes"... and have this carte noire commercial... but I don't have the original shots either :/
http://buf.fr/WORK/project.php?id=929
It's not really THE commercial....


as for dj...

1. track the shot and stabilize it.
2. make a difference key between the first and other frames, you should get a good matte.
3. use that matte to place a plate of the replaced sign.
4. Unstabilize your shot
5. Render it and show a big smile to your supervisor.

Nothing complicated....
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Old 2009-03-26, 21:17   Link #548
crash-kun
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Age: 25
I'm glad you liked the tutorials Noct

Being as I do not TS much I never really had a need to learn mocha well. I can use it but probably not as well as dj_tjerk and pichu. Once I have some time to work with mocha more in-depth I wouldn't mind making a tutorial for it.
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Old 2009-03-26, 21:59   Link #549
Deddo
typesetting ftw!
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Is there a way to add mocha support into CS3?
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Old 2009-03-27, 03:56   Link #550
Noct
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deddo View Post
Is there a way to add mocha support into CS3?
Yes. Mocha is a program that can export the data to many other programs including After Effects CS3.
http://library.creativecow.net/artic...ocha_Tut_1.php
This tutorial explains how.


crash-kun, thanks for considering making another tutorial. Must have been a lot work. I've searched the web and i found more than enough documentation for mocha to get the basics down, so i'll just play with mocha a bit more until i get the results i need. That's not a bad way of learning, it just takes more time
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Old 2009-03-27, 05:32   Link #551
Deddo
typesetting ftw!
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Thank you.

I'd really like to hear Crash-kun's sexy voice again if possible. :P I don't even know what mocha does but looks like it's very useful.
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Old 2009-03-30, 02:08   Link #552
crash-kun
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: California
Age: 25
I've received a few questions involving the errors that pichus script returns if things are not set up right. While I know that pichu is working on a new version of the script probably with a new interface, I assume it wont be out for a little. So some time in the next few days I will make a tutorial about different errors, what they mean and how to fix them. Chances are I'll make a nice little index page for all the tutorials as well

PS: Depending on how much free time I have and how bored I am, I may also make some beginning typesetting tutorials that go through some common sign types as well as simple motion tracking, original sign removal/movement, overlay settings and whatever else I can think of. These will probably be useless for people that are not just starting out, but I hope that it will be a crash course (pun intended) in typesetting.

Last edited by crash-kun; 2009-03-30 at 02:22.
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Old 2009-03-30, 13:58   Link #553
G.U.N.D.A.M
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Join Date: Feb 2006
hello, it's me again

I have more questions regarding Particular

Q1: how can I make the particles fade out slowly?
I made a karaoke the other day and the effects suddenly disappear after the syllable is sung...

Q2: how can I make the particles originate from the center of the syllable and then move out?
I couldn't do that, the particles start from random points in the syllables radius >_<

and please don't tell me play with the settings a little bit cuz I already did and I got nothing x_x
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Old 2009-03-30, 16:01   Link #554
Deddo
typesetting ftw!
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Answer one: Use opacity through time window. It should be in particular->particles

Answer two: I know how to do it but i prefer listening experts' advices here.
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Old 2009-03-30, 16:47   Link #555
G.U.N.D.A.M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deddo View Post
Answer one: Use opacity through time window. It should be in particular->particles
but then I would have to add keyframes manually to make it fade out... I know I can do that but it's too much... isn't there anyway to do it automatically?
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Old 2009-03-30, 17:04   Link #556
crash-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.U.N.D.A.M View Post
Q1: how can I make the particles fade out slowly?
I made a karaoke the other day and the effects suddenly disappear after the syllable is sung...
In the Particle section of Particular, there is a little graph called "Opacity over Life" there are some presets that may be of use to you, or you can manually draw your graph. This graph gets normalized to the Life of the particle and it will also take into account the Random % on the life (if you have any).

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.U.N.D.A.M View Post
Q2: how can I make the particles originate from the center of the syllable and then move out?
I couldn't do that, the particles start from random points in the syllables radius >_<
I'm not sure how or if shinji's script can generate positions of the syllables but pichus can. If you want the particles to emit from a single point at the center of the syllable then you would link the position of the Point emitter to the positions the script generates. May sound complicated but all it takes is a simple modification of the second tutorial I made.
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Old 2009-03-30, 19:02   Link #557
dj_tjerk
Ana-chan~
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
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And with shinji's script you can copy what i've done in this karaoke (project file). This is more like a hackjob though as it is mostly about finding the appropriate grid settings >_> (too low: some syllables get none, too high: some syllables get two particles).
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Old 2009-03-31, 03:23   Link #558
_Anakyn_
poopoo
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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G.U.N.D.A.M., apart from adjusting opacity levels so the animation gets smoother, try to switch Layer -> Layer Sampling (I don't remember what it is, but I think you should change it to Particle Birth Time; if not, try the other option, but there's the key). I used to fail there too and I know about it >___< Then you only have to adjust the opacity/scale graphic and you'll get smoother emissions

dj_tjerk, dude, WTF is the expression you got in the .aep?

Code:
part = 0;
for ($i = 1; $i <= 11; $i++) {
   if (thisComp.layer(thisLayer.index - $i).text.animator("Keyframe style 1").selector("Karaoke selector").end.valueAtTime(time - 0.05) != thisComp.layer(thisLayer.index - $i).text.animator("Keyframe style 1").selector("Karaoke selector").end) {  
    part = 200000;
 }
 }
part
I can't understand it but it generates wonderful karas. Btw, awesome work. Simple but brutally well designed. Sassuga dj_tjerk
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Old 2009-03-31, 05:37   Link #559
dj_tjerk
Ana-chan~
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Layer index increases from top to bottom.. so say the solid layer has index 13, then it will loop over layer 12 till 2 (text layers) and look for any syllable that's starting to be sung (if the value of "keyframe style 1" range selector is different from what is was 0.05 seconds ago). If there is a syllable in any of those layers, it sets amount of particles to emit to 200000. If there's not, particles/sec remains 0.

All the text layers are also in the layer emitter precomposition, and the syllables only appear when they are being sung. Of course this'd create problems with lines being sung at the same time (that's easy to solve though), but there are none of those in this kara.

Anyway, as I said, this is mostly a hackjob. If I would know how to handle pichu's script (fixed length syllable animators?), then it'd take me about as long as it did here.
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Old 2009-03-31, 12:17   Link #560
G.U.N.D.A.M
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
part = 0;
for ($i = 1; $i <= 11; $i++) {
if (thisComp.layer(thisLayer.index - $i).text.animator("Keyframe style 1").selector("Karaoke selector").end.valueAtTime(time - 0.05) != thisComp.layer(thisLayer.index - $i).text.animator("Keyframe style 1").selector("Karaoke selector").end) {
part = 200000;
}
}

I get an error when I do this...
it says "Class 'Light' has no property or method named 'text'
Expression disabled.
Error occurred at line 3."

so what do I do?
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