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Old 2006-05-06, 10:07   Link #81
juggen
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Hating fillers got nothing to do with the manga, I haven't read it, Its just that everytime theres fillers, the series gets poorly animated, the story sux, the characters begin to loose their power for some reason, naruto is totally retarded and Ichigo also sux (hey, he beat Rukia's brother and now he got owned by Ganji , u know the water elements) and it turns more and more into a childrens series!!!
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Old 2006-05-06, 10:21   Link #82
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what i dont get with this filler arc ic, why does karyin wants to goto the other side for? become god? he cant become god if aizen is ruling that world. or does he wanna team up with aizen, but since this is a filler, we all know the outcome
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Old 2006-05-06, 13:02   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juggen
Hating fillers got nothing to do with the manga, I haven't read it, Its just that everytime theres fillers, the series gets poorly animated, the story sux, the characters begin to loose their power for some reason, naruto is totally retarded and Ichigo also sux (hey, he beat Rukia's brother and now he got owned by Ganji , u know the water elements) and it turns more and more into a childrens series!!!
Excuses, excuses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichimaru
what i dont get with this filler arc ic, why does karyin wants to goto the other side for? become god? he cant become god if aizen is ruling that world. or does he wanna team up with aizen, but since this is a filler, we all know the outcome
There's still a lot of possibility tho. Kariya COULD end up going to Hueco Mundo, say, if his intentions aren't that evil and Ichigo & co don't care/can't stop him. It's not like it'll change any future arcs unless Kubo decides to integrate anime-only stuff into the manga(which even I doubt)
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Old 2006-05-06, 14:29   Link #84
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yes HI thewanderer, i thought you would miss me so i'd love to join this thread =P
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Old 2006-05-07, 05:13   Link #85
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
Excuses, excuses
Same to you...

No offence... but do you like the fillers... or are you so in love with bleach that you just want to love everything...

I think I've seen this before... were people just watch it and argue just for the hell of it...

I'm a manga reader ... and no I don't like the fillers because I like to know what happens next ... I don't like the fillers because they're going the road Naruto went ... and before the Naruto fillers I never read manga ...

You are correct... normal viewers shouldn't be able to tell if it's filler or not... in fact... normal viewers(non-forum and non-manga readers... and especially the non Japanese viewers) don't even know that things like fillers exist...

How should I put it... the first couple of episodes in the Naruto fillers were quite good... then they went BAD... bleach seems to follow... the first filler episodes were quite good... and the quality is getting narutoish IMO ...

I presume you don't read manga so I'll tell you... the reason why manga readers hate fillers is because the ep start out as separate stories (good thing) then they try to tie them to the manga story (bad thing) then they start using character development from previous episodes (really bad thing)... and now comes the really bad thing... they use parts of the manga story... isn't the purpose of the fillers to postpone the development that happens in the manga... what's the point of using parts of it... are they trying to make scenes in future non-filler ep look like they're filler ...

P.S.
You've been arguing with people in the previews pages that the fillers are part of the original story...

Just out of curiosity... how is that a good thing ... how is that even a reason ... mind expanding a bit on the idea ...
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Old 2006-05-07, 06:03   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
Same to you...
I was kinda joking there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
No offence... but do you like the fillers... or are you so in love with bleach that you just want to love everything...
I don't WANT to love everything, just like things for what they are and don't let anything cloud my judgement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
I think I've seen this before... were people just watch it and argue just for the hell of it...
I never look for arguments. I apologize for any misunderstandings though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
I'm a manga reader ... and no I don't like the fillers because I like to know what happens next ... I don't like the fillers because they're going the road Naruto went ... and before the Naruto fillers I never read manga ...

You are correct... normal viewers shouldn't be able to tell if it's filler or not... in fact... normal viewers(non-forum and non-manga readers... and especially the non Japanese viewers) don't even know that things like fillers exist...

How should I put it... the first couple of episodes in the Naruto fillers were quite good... then they went BAD... bleach seems to follow... the first filler episodes were quite good... and the quality is getting narutoish IMO ...
That's fine. But I'm not a big fan of Naruto, so I wouldn't know much about any of their fillers. Heck, I only watched Naruto's dub
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
I presume you don't read manga so I'll tell you... the reason why manga readers hate fillers is because the ep start out as separate stories (good thing) then they try to tie them to the manga story (bad thing) then they start using character development from previous episodes (really bad thing)... and now comes the really bad thing... they use parts of the manga story... isn't the purpose of the fillers to postpone the development that happens in the manga... what's the point of using parts of it... are they trying to make scenes in future non-filler ep look like they're filler ...
Tiing into the manga story isn't at all bad IMO. And I don't get how it would make future eps look like filler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
P.S.
You've been arguing with people in the previews pages that the fillers are part of the original story...

Just out of curiosity... how is that a good thing ... how is that even a reason ... mind expanding a bit on the idea ...
I've just been noticing that ppl are letting other things effect how they see those eps is all. I had no intention of starting any fights/arguments. And I NEVER said that the fillers are part of the ORIGINAL(meaning manga) story, but they are in every way part of the anime story.

And IMO again, I didn't notice any drop in quality yet. Maybe because I'm not as picky as you guys, but I know that I'm not ignorant in any way that'd make me avoid important things like that. Some ppl even go as far as to say that there's something wrong with one who likes any kind of filler. I hope that you don't agree with that too...
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Old 2006-05-07, 06:32   Link #87
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Let's see now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
I'm a manga reader ... and no I don't like the fillers because I like to know what happens next ... I don't like the fillers because they're going the road Naruto went ... and before the Naruto fillers I never read manga ...

How should I put it... the first couple of episodes in the Naruto fillers were quite good... then they went BAD... bleach seems to follow... the first filler episodes were quite good... and the quality is getting narutoish IMO ...
From what I recall, it was the other way around. People argued that the first episodes were really bad and then found some later episodes good enough to watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
I'm a manga reader ... and no I don't like the fillers because I like to know what happens next ... I don't like the fillers because they're going the road Naruto went ... and before the Naruto fillers I never read manga ...

I presume you don't read manga so I'll tell you... the reason why manga readers hate fillers is because the ep start out as separate stories (good thing) then they try to tie them to the manga story (bad thing) then they start using character development from previous episodes (really bad thing)... and now comes the really bad thing... they use parts of the manga story... isn't the purpose of the fillers to postpone the development that happens in the manga... what's the point of using parts of it... are they trying to make scenes in future non-filler ep look like they're filler ...
That happens with every fan of a book/story/legend-brought-to-TV. Hollywood is a master at ruining good stories in order to make its production appeal to the huge mass of "non-believers". Take LoTR for example. Out of all the complains I have about it, the worst is Arwen. Unnecessary, pretty lame, a modified story of one of the LoTR appendices, it was an obvious attempt to market LoTR to more people than the smaller dedicated fanbase. Damn, most of her dialogue was lame as hell. It's still one of the best book conversions, but unfortunately I'll never enjoy it as much as the average joe.

The obvious reason why the anime fillers uses portions of the manga story is one : coherence, essential for good storytelling. To you it's a horrible attempt to make the filler story stick to the manga. As for me, I don't read the manga, I couldn't care less. If the manga version of a specific occurence was presented here to be better than the one used by the anime, I'd agree that they should have sticked to the original concept. If however 1) the manga event was lame and the anime adopted it as is, or 2) the anime event was presented better than the manga, I'd cheer for good use of originality. Now, since it'd be lame to forget the whole SS arc and Aizen and make a completely detached story (some anime do that, but that's more lame than DB), most people would choose to use parts of the next story section to help the original story in terms of coherence. Damn, I'd have done that, too.

If production says they need fillers to let the manga progress before resuming, fillers are a necessary evil, unless we follow the approach of dividing the anime into seasons and give a break between seasons. Well, someone thought he could make more money with a filler arc. The good part is that it's not Naruto and that the manga creator designed the filler characters. The bad-for-you-good-for-me is that apparently they use portions of the manga story to tie the anime together.

Other than that, yes, the animation seems to have suffered, from a bit to quite a bit (a particular Rukia face comes to mind), although I believe it's improving right now.

I still believe though that the main problem with many manga (and some non-manga) readers is this : "Filler=bad". Maybe we should make a poll about that

Edit: a signifant word was lost due to editing Noticed from a quote below.

Last edited by npal; 2006-05-07 at 07:56.
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Old 2006-05-07, 07:13   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
I was kinda joking there...
Upss...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
Tiing into the manga story isn't at all bad IMO. And I don't get how it would make future eps look like filler.
Simple... when they start reusing something again and again... it's considered (by some people) filler... since it could be replaced by something else... or more simply put... you already seen it and the fact you see it again and again accounts to nothing... (of course that doesn't mean its bad to repeat a scene or a plot thing... but there has to be a special reason to repeat it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
I've just been noticing that ppl are letting other things effect how they see those eps is all. I had no intention of starting any fights/arguments. And I NEVER said that the fillers are part of the ORIGINAL(meaning manga) story, but they are in every way part of the anime story.
Ahh... I now understand what you meant... you mean that it isn't important if the story doesn't follow the path of the manga... basically if the transition from anime to manga is very very vague and very very long...

Well, they did modify part of the manga...and removed some bits... modified others (like for example Ichigo tennis-hollow training... just after he became a shinigami... or did I miss it in the anime )

Actually I like anime that have totally different stories from the manga (HiME, Otome)... but the thing is... IMO the ones that followed the manga should stick to the manga...

As I see it now the fillers didn't make Bleach bad... they made Blech a normal... and that is bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
And IMO again, I didn't notice any drop in quality yet. Maybe because I'm not as picky as you guys, but I know that I'm not ignorant in any way that'd make me avoid important things like that. Some ppl even go as far as to say that there's something wrong with one who likes any kind of filler. I hope that you don't agree with that too...
... I think I understand a little... as far as animation goes... no difference IMO... the quality has been decreasing but its nothing new (it predates fillers)... story... just a little decrees in intensity (could use a little spice)... the major problem is the increase in cheesy scenes... basically it's either that they're filming some of the scenes from some stupid angle or everybody just looks like they're in a play (stand like idiots and mouth moves... then they stand perfectly still while some other character that was frozen starts mumbling something)... I like to see some more movement here and there...

Also... some of the moves are a little shallow... and the stupid oh so obvious hints are just too stupid... I don't know about other people but if there's a secret to something or to some boss in the anime that can defeat him... I rather not know it... just makes other characters look stupid for not figuring it out... like for example the water bosses ... and to make it worse they had to go...

"What just happened ?"
Ichigo,Rukia, and co - "Uhh... Uhh... ... I have no idea... "

Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
From what I recall, it was the other way around. People argued that the first episodes were really bad and then found some later episodes good enough to watch.
Sorry... that was my opinion... and I wasn't speaking about the people... just how I experienced it...

Your point is interesting... I personally found the bleach fillers top notch, at first...
When they started using Rukia... I got that sinking feeling...

Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
If production says they need fillers to let the manga progress before resuming, fillers are a necessary evil, unless we follow the approach of dividing the anime into seasons and give a break between seasons. Well, someone thought he could make more with a filler arc. The good part is that it's not Naruto and that the manga creator designed the filler characters. The bad-for-you-good-for-me is that apparently they use portions of the manga story to tie the anime together.
OK... so what's your point... sorry I don't worship the manga... and I don't judge things just by the animation...

If the anime can make the manga better I'll cheer for the anime... but right now I'd say the manga is leading... as in anime = Good... manga=Excellent

If I were to judge by animation cuality then the anime would be Avarage... since they didn't properly animate some things... *points to Captain SnowFlakes Ban Kai* ...

FYI I'm more interested in the story...

Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
I still believe though that the main problem with many manga (and some non-manga) readers is this : "Filler=bad". Maybe we should make a poll about that
I agree... maybe a Admin/Mod can add one to this thread... I'm very confused what the heck is the general opinion on this ...
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Old 2006-05-07, 07:26   Link #89
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But since the fillers are mediocre at best, then when including manga material, don't u ruin the original story that could have been, and which would most likely have been very good!
Thats just plain stupid in IMO!!
fillers are just to make money or somethin' while waiting for the manga to develop, so there can be more anime episodes!!
Cause from what i've heard most people only get mad at the companies for doing fillers so it must be cause they can make money on it otherwise they would just have made another season!
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Old 2006-05-07, 08:03   Link #90
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You can't make money by creating a mutilated story So obviously, the best move is to use portions of a successful (apparently) story and tie the pieces together. You have that, or a Bleach version of the quest for the ultimate sandwich or something. Or some idiotic flashback filler that is somehow always boring. Or they could make a "Fumoffu" type filler, but I doubt they could keep the comedy value high for a long filler arc.

So, the filler strategy they use is probably the best, although they should have just closed the arc, have a break and resume with second season later at some point. As it is, it's much more interesting than your average filler arc, so they're not half-bad. The only complain I have is that the animation is pretty inconsistent (ranges from good to bad, even in the same episode), and seems really bad at some points (remembers Rukia's face again ).
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Old 2006-05-07, 08:55   Link #91
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I stopped watching Bleach when the Bound eps started
Tbh the fillers aren't interesting...
It may be because I know something good comes next by reading the manga but I doubt it , the fillers are boring.
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Old 2006-05-07, 12:17   Link #92
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juggen
Cause from what i've heard most people only get mad at the companies for doing fillers so it must be cause they can make money on it otherwise they would just have made another season!
Really... To be honest I have no idea what company makes Naruto and Bleach ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
You can't make money by creating a mutilated story
Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
So obviously, the best move is to use portions of a successful (apparently) story and tie the pieces together.
____________..::::..____________

You can also loose the fans... is that really beneficial

Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
You have that, or a Bleach version of the quest for the ultimate sandwich or something. Or some idiotic flashback filler that is somehow always boring. Or they could make a "Fumoffu" type filler, but I doubt they could keep the comedy value high for a long filler arc.

Actually all they have to do is throw in some school comedy and they can easily make a 13 ep filler... then if they want more then just make some little episodes of Karins school activity... 7 ep easy... then just make some doctor episodes 6 should be a solid number... and you have yourself a 26 ep arc fumoffu style... it's easier since they can steel from all the school shows out there... and not to mention... make the transition back to manga story seem like going into the fire...

Just as an example... here are some fast ways to make episodes...
  1. Sport episodes - basically how Ichigo cheats using some powers... in different sports
  2. Class episodes - Ichigo's teacher... the really funny one in the manga (I think they skipped on him in the anime)... might be able to provide a full ep...
  3. Club activity episodes - I don't know... maybe Ichigo forms a club to find idiots that can see dead people...
  4. Policing episodes - Ichigo helps solve crimes or something, committed by a hollow...
  5. Gang episodes - in essence we lock Ichigo in human form and start placing him in a blood feud between two rival gangs... and he gets his ass whipped... I would really like to see that scene from the manga were Chad comes and just kicks that guys ass (in the anime it got censored )

    ...and the list can continue...
As for Karin
Just showing a normal day of her school life should be able to fill an entire episode... it would also exploit a previous manga point that was skipped...

I know the quality would probably the same as now... but a comedy arc would have been better... since you can make a great show with stupidity... making the characters stupid doesn't mean a thing... whether its intentional or not... it just classifies as comedy in one form or another... That and there's no need for fights to take place (more time for the animators to sit back and make the characters look good)... and like in fumoffu... even if they go all cheesy and stupid with plot development it can still (actually it has a better chance) to end up a winner... (oh and it might be better to skip any Bwa ha ha ha crap...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
So, the filler strategy they use is probably the best, although they should have just closed the arc, have a break and resume with second season later at some point. As it is, it's much more interesting than your average filler arc, so they're not half-bad. The only complain I have is that the animation is pretty inconsistent (ranges from good to bad, even in the same episode), and seems really bad at some points (remembers Rukia's face again ).

I wathched fumoffu... and I don't know if it was filler or not... but it had stuff in it that only a 12 year old could concoct... and I loved it... is it really that hard to just use the stupid cartoon jokes and other idiotic crap that usually works...

I usually judge the animation for the entire episode... don't really think of it in little pieces... anyway... as far as I'm concern the animation was excellent in the first 26 episodes or so... then it started slipping in the SS arc... and now goes from SS arc quality to BAD quality...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzer
Tbh the fillers aren't interesting...
It may be because I know something good comes next by reading the manga but I doubt it , the fillers are boring.
Same here...
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Old 2006-05-07, 12:21   Link #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
Simple... when they start reusing something again and again... it's considered (by some people) filler... since it could be replaced by something else... or more simply put... you already seen it and the fact you see it again and again accounts to nothing... (of course that doesn't mean its bad to repeat a scene or a plot thing... but there has to be a special reason to repeat it)
What would they be reusing after the filler? If something happened in one ep, I don't see a reason to have it in another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
Ahh... I now understand what you meant... you mean that it isn't important if the story doesn't follow the path of the manga... basically if the transition from anime to manga is very very vague and very very long...
No, I'm not. I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with adding parts to the anime as long as it's not inconsistant.

The OPs and EDs aren't from the manga and everyone likes them(well, most of them). I can't see how much different that is besides that the theme songs were never technically part of continuity to begin with.
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Old 2006-05-07, 12:49   Link #94
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What would they be reusing after the filler? If something happened in one ep, I don't see a reason to have it in another.

Right now in the fillers they are using things like : "Ichigo has trouble with ban kai..." or "Ichigo is stupid and pathetic in battle..." and that will get enough attention and will be pointed out really nice in the original manga story...

If they continue like this... when the fillers will end and they start the story then it will look like they’re overdoing it...

The thing is that all the people that read the manga can already tell...
Of course this can go on and on... maybe its better to just wait and see ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
No, I'm not. I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with adding parts to the anime as long as it's not inconsistant.
What do you mean... what do you think people have been babbling about in the previous pages... the fillers are getting worse because they are starting to disrupt the next arc (the normal manga arc)... basically it just makes you sad when you think about half of the stupid stuff they are doing...

As far as story goes its good... but I rather see the next arc untouched and clean then have it spoiled by this one...

Well... it's not as worse as Naruto... so that’s a good thing ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewanderer
The OPs and EDs aren't from the manga and everyone likes them(well, most of them). I can't see how much different that is besides that the theme songs were never technically part of continuity to begin with.

The current op/ed aren't bad... but frankly my favorites will always be the op/ed from the first episodes (1,2...)
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Old 2006-05-07, 14:17   Link #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII

Right now in the fillers they are using things like : "Ichigo has trouble with ban kai..." or "Ichigo is stupid and pathetic in battle..." and that will get enough attention and will be pointed out really nice in the original manga story...

If they continue like this... when the fillers will end and they start the story then it will look like they’re overdoing it...

The thing is that all the people that read the manga can already tell...
Of course this can go on and on... maybe its better to just wait and see ^_^

Well Ichigo can't access Bankai in the real world yet in the anime... he never had that problem in the manga. I don't think it'l look THAT wierd, if at all.

But yeah, we'll see...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
What do you mean... what do you think people have been babbling about in the previous pages... the fillers are getting worse because they are starting to disrupt the next arc (the normal manga arc)... basically it just makes you sad when you think about half of the stupid stuff they are doing...

As far as story goes its good... but I rather see the next arc untouched and clean then have it spoiled by this one...

Well... it's not as worse as Naruto... so that’s a good thing ...

My view is... if they're gonna add a new storyline to it, they should at least make it seamless and not like it was just forced in between everything(okay, it was put between manga arcs yes, but in the story itself it seems more natural). I think it's one of the better elements of the Bleach fillers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII

The current op/ed aren't bad... but frankly my favorites will always be the op/ed from the first episodes (1,2...)
My favorite OP/ED is D-Technolife & Happy People. The new OP is pretty um... colorful, tho. But this is a li'l off topic...
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Old 2006-05-07, 14:59   Link #96
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer
My view is... if they're gonna add a new storyline to it, they should at least make it seamless and not like it was just forced in between everything(okay, it was put between manga arcs yes, but in the story itself it seems more natural). I think it's one of the better elements of the Bleach fillers.

... it does seem natural (somehow)... ... maybe I'm just fearing another Naruto disaster ^^

Ok, I'm a little tired right now ... if anything comes to mind I'll post it here later ...


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Old 2006-05-07, 16:46   Link #97
juggen
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Originally Posted by BlackCatXIII
Really... To be honest I have no idea what company makes Naruto and Bleach ...
Well whatever
They are Studio Pierrot, TV Tokyo, Aniplex
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Old 2006-05-16, 12:50   Link #98
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BLEACH7.com reports that titles for episodes 81-83 have been announced.

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-05-16, 12:54   Link #99
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Originally Posted by Guido
BLEACH7.com reports that titles for episodes 81-83 have been announced.

Spoiler:
Ah, filler heaven



I can't wait till they change the ED tho
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Old 2006-05-17, 13:09   Link #100
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Originally Posted by Thewanderer
I can't wait till they change the ED tho
What's wrong with Hanabi? Dont you like it?

I actually stand very firmly with Thewanderer on this one. Seriously guys, you cannot expect them to just stop making the anime until the manga gets further ahead. What better way to pass time than to create a new arc that LEADS INTO the next manga arc? That's all this is doing. setting up the problems to be faced soon through a new enemy, but not really changing key story points. Like in EP 80, there was a scene with the Afro Guy (manga readers know who i'm talking about). It was a short, humorous bit, where he was shown quickly, and THAT WAS IT. nobody met him, no one dealt with him, so nothing has been altered.

Also, Kubo Tite made the characters, what makes people (2 specifically in this thread, but i dont know exactly who) think that he WASNT involved in the story, or that the animators DONT have his art to follow? How else would they follow his vision?

Plus, it's nice to see a bit of humor back in this series.
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