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Old 2003-11-03, 18:01   Link #1
eMpTy265
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Talking Ep.5 Discussion

Here's to discussion on episode 5.
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Old 2003-11-03, 18:02   Link #2
eMpTy265
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Cheers!


OK


So, now we've got the flashback, several things are clear now:


Spoiler:



EDIT: what happened to spoiler tags?

So, what do we think of Takayuki's character now? Is he just a weak-minded person? Or was it probably time he moved on?


Now, I must say that I like Akane's character much more now, I almost even hope that the authors consider an Akane ending.

(Though that will probably make the story even more complicated)

Last edited by eMpTy265; 2003-11-03 at 18:09. Reason: Spoiler tags don't work... + editing
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Old 2003-11-03, 18:14   Link #3
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It was definitely time for Takayuki to move on, but I think that Haruka's parents telling him it made it more difficult than it needed to be. Mainly due to the fact that they didn't tell Akane that they told him to leave. Makes her look kinda bad now that I think about it.
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Old 2003-11-03, 18:17   Link #4
u&t
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Ok here is my take:

Mitsuki is a BITCH!

That was fucking rape man. Throwing herself at a helpless young man like that...

Also this episode further confirms that Takayuki is a spineless wimp in great need of some character (phu, I'm glad anime is so character driven - maybe Takayuki will get some)

I guess you really cant blame Mitsuki for what she did but she's definetly holding the moral low ground here. Takayuki needs to dump her, get a life for a couple of years and then return to the girls. Ha! if I'm lucky both Haruka and Mitsuki will have realized what a dork he is by then and then he'll be the one with the broken heart in the end. That would be fun
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Old 2003-11-03, 18:23   Link #5
eMpTy265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u&t
Ok here is my take:

Mitsuki is a BITCH!

That was fucking rape man. Throwing herself at a helpless young man like that...

Also this episode further confirms that Takayuki is a spineless wimp in great need of some character (phu, I'm glad anime is so character driven - maybe Takayuki will get some)

I guess you really cant blame Mitsuki for what she did but she's definetly holding the moral low ground here. Takayuki needs to dump her, get a life for a couple of years and then return to the girls. Ha! if I'm lucky both Haruka and Mitsuki will have realized what a dork he is by then and then he'll be the one with the broken heart in the end. That would be fun

LOL...

when I was watching KOR (Kimagure Orange Road), I was hoping that the male lead get dumped by both girls.


But for Takayuki, I sort of feel a bit sorry for him.
Without reminding myself that he was the star of a H-game, I'd say he's pretty realistic.
(and yes... he's a wimp... but who wouldn't be after such an incident, besides Mitsuki was taking care of him all the time... plus it WAS mitsuki that he originally liked before getting Haruka...)


As for Mitsuki, I also feel bad for the girl.. (darn... I feel bad for just about everyone in this anime... *cries*)
It's probably really hard for her to take care of Takayuki, and see him shattered like that. Plus the amount of guilt that she has to bear.

Still... I definately agree that she should NOT have slept with him like that. But then again, I have no idea how girls think, so maybe it was natural, and it's not her fault for losing herself .
(please don't flame me for that comment... bear with my ignorance for now... unless you plan to enlighten me. =D)
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Old 2003-11-03, 18:46   Link #6
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After watching the anime and finishing the game, the only person I hate in this series is Takayuki.

Akane was right ... he is a coward. For a whole year he didn't confront with the situation. He just blamed himself for what happen, while he should be living normally for the sake of Haruka.

Quote from Freedert-san (D.N.ANGEL):
"To the person who is important to you, you must never let go of them. In order to protect the person whom you hold dear, you must not choose death. To protect the person who is important to you, no matter what happen, you must stay alive for them."

What is done is done, it cannot be undone. Sitting there like an idiot and do nothing won't change a thing. This is the lesson that Takayuki must learned.
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Old 2003-11-03, 18:48   Link #7
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Maybe Mitsuki thought that only way to cheer up Takayuki is to confess her love. He was pretty messed up, and that went about a year before anything happened.

Both Mitsuki and Haruka liked Takayuki, but Haruka made the first move and it was Mitsuki encouraged her to do so.

Maybe they shouldn't slept together but it was weak moment for both of them, so who can really blame them. (but that does not make it right!)

I'm still Mitsuki-fan...
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Old 2003-11-03, 18:54   Link #8
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Originally Posted by eMpTy265
It's probably really hard for her to take care of Takayuki, and see him shattered like that. Plus the amount of guilt that she has to bear.
Yeah, and her taking all that crap from Akane as well. She has to be pretty strong...

Oh and maybe I don't like Akane. She's been insulting people left and right now and ok, I can understand she's pissed at Mitsuki for jumping into bed with Takayuki but afer 2 years she's not able to forgive Mitsuki for what she did. All she's doing is making Takayuki feel even more guilty and insecure about his relationship with Mitsuki. She's going to ruin Takayukis and Mitsukis relationship while everyone here at the forum praises her for being such a nice girl.
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Old 2003-11-03, 19:03   Link #9
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Ha we got our own fourm...... anyways DAMN TAYUKI .... such a bastard... that jew doesn't know what's good for him..... all the things Hakura has done for him..... that Mitsuka is such a hooker... how could hakura think she's still friends after what she has done....
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Old 2003-11-03, 19:08   Link #10
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I feel really bad for Mitsuki.. =/ Of course I feel bad for Haruka too, though. Someone needs to keep Takayuki in the head. >.<; It was a good episode though, I cried some. ^_^;
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Old 2003-11-03, 19:09   Link #11
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Originally Posted by u&t
but afer 2 years she's not able to forgive Mitsuki for what she did
You don't seem to understand her situation much here... In Akane's mind, Mitsuki betrayed her and her sister and outright lied to her. She looked up to Mitsuki before, and I doubt she would ever insult her in anyway before that scene. But seeing the person you admire the most betray you like that is something that you don't forget and forgive... So you can't blame her for acting that way.

And don't forget, it's after meeting her in the end of Ep 2 that Takayuki finally changed his mind and decides to live a normal life with Mitsuki...
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Old 2003-11-03, 19:11   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGMF-10A
Ha we got our own fourm...... anyways DAMN TAYUKI .... such a bastard... that jew doesn't know what's good for him..... all the things Hakura has done for him..... that Mitsuka is such a hooker... how could hakura think she's still friends after what she has done....
Mitsuki isn't a hooker, she didn't get paid. But anyways.. Mitsuki didn't seem like a slut to me at all, I pretty much always despise slutty characters. Mitsuki loves Takayuki just as much as Haruka so I don't see what's wrong. Mitsuki had thought that Haruka was never going to wake up and it's obvious that Mitsuki felt extremely guilty for what happened. Besides, I think that if Mitsuki never told Takayuki she loved him then I would think Takayuki would become even more insane. Did you see how Takayuki was acting before he had sex with Mitsuki? ~.~ He was about to go completely insane.
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Old 2003-11-03, 19:14   Link #13
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Originally Posted by u&t
Yeah, and her taking all that crap from Akane as well. She has to be pretty strong...

Oh and maybe I don't like Akane. She's been insulting people left and right now and ok, I can understand she's pissed at Mitsuki for jumping into bed with Takayuki but afer 2 years she's not able to forgive Mitsuki for what she did. All she's doing is making Takayuki feel even more guilty and insecure about his relationship with Mitsuki. She's going to ruin Takayukis and Mitsukis relationship while everyone here at the forum praises her for being such a nice girl.
It is pretty hard to be a Mitsuki fan when she jumps Takayuki when he was so vulnerable. Akane is just a kid and I can't blame her for still being mad at Mitsuki. All of us in the Haruka camp dont want to see a Takayuki and Mitsuki ending although after seeing ep 5 it looks highly likely now.
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Old 2003-11-03, 19:16   Link #14
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What Mitsuki has been doing was keeping Takayuki alive in the meantime. The probability of people waking out of a coma after more than a year aren't particularly big. And Takayuki was (and to a part is again now) a wreck

No, that's what's so great with this series. There are no bad characters. They may have their own wishes and agendas, but every single main character is likable in herself (Takayuki is borderline, but he's definitely got it hard).

You folks should keep in mind that Akane is extremely young. And that Mitsuki was her idol before - the higher the throne, the deeper they fall. And she's drilling into Takayuki now since she feels that she needs Takayuki's help to get her sister back on track, and she's extremely protective of her.

Extremely logically and solidly constructed. It's so rare in anime series that it's easy to understand WHY the characters do what they're doing. The script writer knew what he was doing.
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Old 2003-11-03, 19:41   Link #15
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It is pretty hard to be a Mitsuki fan when she jumps Takayuki when he was so vulnerable. Akane is just a kid and I can't blame her for still being mad at Mitsuki. All of us in the Haruka camp dont want to see a Takayuki and Mitsuki ending although after seeing ep 5 it looks highly likely now
Well, I think in this case Mitsuki was very vulnerable too. She had been watching how the person she loved the most had been falling deeper and deeper, without even noticing she was there. Being next to someone like that and taking care of him is VERY depressing and after the scene in the hospital she just blew up.

Spoiler:
Besides that, Akane probably thinks that Mitsuki has been with Takayuki all this time. She didn't know that it was the first time that happened, which made it even worse, since she says when she finds her naked in Takayuki's bed "You were deceiving me the whole time..." thinking that when she asked for help to take care of her sister and Takayuki he had actually been having sex with him.
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Old 2003-11-03, 19:53   Link #16
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Originally Posted by Kensuke
Maybe Mitsuki thought that only way to cheer up Takayuki is to confess her love.
::sigh:: I must admit this episode didn't exactly leave me with the best impression of Mitsuki.

It's obvious that Haruka being in a coma really fucked Takayuki up mentally. So, of course, the best thing for a person as dependent as he is is to have sex with his [sorta] ex-girlfriend's best friend! Yeah, I'm sure that made the guilt just go right away!

Instead, Mitsuki should have just got the lead out and dealt with her emotions in a productive way for once. She thinks she's doing the best thing for him, but really the last thing he probably needs is some weepy chick crying "But I've loved you for so long! Come and bathe in the magical light of my vagina and everything will be better!" (And the fact that it seems to have worked is a bit of a failing of the anime as far as I'm concerned)

What Takayuki needed was a friend. Not someone with an ulterior agenda. (Even though I don't think Mitsuki was fully aware of it herself, so it's hard to fault her) This episode obviously represented a severe low as far as Takayuki's feelings were concerned, and I think perhaps Mitsuki shouldnt have been so quick to dive in there sexually and/or [perhaps] romantically. I would have had a lot more respect for her if she had gotten him through this low point without bringing her personal feelings into it. It's hard, but sometimes it just needs to be done.

And, once he was stable, I would have been hard pressed to fault them for entering a relationship. Granted, this is in a best case scenario. I just find myself tired of the subtle selfishness displayed by Mitsuki time and time again. Perhaps if this was not coupled with an attempt to make her seem "noble", I would like her a lot better, since I can and do appreciate characters with human flaws.

I won't deny that her heart was in the right place. And, I can't say that I even hate her. I just don't find myself terribly impressed by her actions thusfar. Is this most likely intentional on the part of the writers? Sure. I mean, it's not like their future relationship is deviod of problems or anything. I just don't think Mitsuki "saved him" as much as gave into weakness.
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Old 2003-11-03, 19:57   Link #17
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Remember when Akane grabbed Mitsuki's hand in the cafe when she implored her to help look after her sister and Nurami? I looked at that frame-by-frame to see if that was the hand with the ring on it...no it wasn't. Damn, that would have been poetic.

Anyway, it wasn't their first time. It was at least their second time; Narumi showed up at the hospital after visiting hours at night, and got kicked out and told not to come back. He goes home and sleeps with Mitsuki. We next see Narumi on what we assume to be the morning after, and he seems more alive, and Mitsuki is there telling him she's going out ahead of him, and she gets her hair cut and she comes back later in the day to make him food. Persumably on the same day, Akane wonders why Narumi didn't come during visiting hours and heads to his place in the evening, where she sees Mitsuki naked in his bed. There would be no reason for Mitsuki to be in his bed if she just hadn't slept with him, which, we assume by the timeline, was an activity they were enjoying while Akane was waiting in the hospital during the visiting period. So it was at least their second time. Ouch.

And what's Mitsuki supposed to say? That it was just a mistake and that she really didn't mean it and that she was just confused? She can't because she knows that's a horrendous lie. She feels deep down that she is a traitor, so she can't say a damned thing to Akane.
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Old 2003-11-03, 20:02   Link #18
eMpTy265
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Originally Posted by Breogan
Well, I think in this case Mitsuki was very vulnerable too. She had been watching how the person she loved the most had been falling deeper and deeper, without even noticing she was there. Being next to someone like that and taking care of him is VERY depressing and after the scene in the hospital she just blew up.

Spoiler:
Besides that, Akane probably thinks that Mitsuki has been with Takayuki all this time. She didn't know that it was the first time that happened, which made it even worse, since she says when she finds her naked in Takayuki's bed "You were deceiving me the whole time..." thinking that when she asked for help to take care of her sister and Takayuki he had actually been having sex with him.

It's amazing how well the script / game writers created the characters in this series.

Take Akane for example, at first all we see is a hyper-active runt who teases Takayuki, and in ep.3 we get the exact opposite. I think Akane's one of those characters that deserves her portion of plot, cuz she's probably a complex character just like Mitsuki.

[Spoiler]

In the game, Akane actually ends up falling in love with Takayuki, I wonder if it's going to happen here to some extent?

But it's definately hard for Akane to forget what happened Mitsuki, especially when Mitsuki was Akane's idol. (I suppose you can see how much Akane admired Mitsuki when they were talking in the cafe, and Akane got worked up because the swim team people were criticizing Mitsuki)

At the same time, it's also sad that Akane didn't get to find out the entire story. (How Haruka's parents told Takayuki to move on, and how Mitsuki actually kept herself in check until Takayuki was at the verge of collapsing)



As for Mitsuki, I still think it was wrong for her to bed Takayuki (at that time at least), but I already posted about that so.... I just hope that she doesn't make any more mistakes like that.


The question I have though is: Does Takayuki truly love Mitsuki? Or is he with her for emotional support as well as love? Cuz you can see that once Haruka woke up, Takayuki sort of returned to the 'crazy' mode.... so...





As for an ending, I'm really don't want to see another 'unconscious girl' wakes up, and takes the guy ending.

(Though I'm pretty sure that the author will throw a twist at this.)





[spoiler]
LOL... maybe they should use the Takayuki 2-timing storyline.

Then again... maybe not...

Last edited by eMpTy265; 2003-11-03 at 20:13. Reason: Fixed Spoiler colour
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Old 2003-11-03, 20:03   Link #19
Lucier
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Actually, if you pay attention, it wasn't the 'next morning'... but a FEW mornings later... (in my opinion)
If you notice, that night (when they were in the rain)
Mitsuki was wearing that Orange top outfit...

and the morning where akane came in and found her in his bed nude, she had her WORK outfit laying on the floor.
That makes me think it was at least the next day... (She came to his place after work, made out, etc...)
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Old 2003-11-03, 20:14   Link #20
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One thing I noticed though... In Ep 3 Takayuki mentioned that he hasn't seen Mitsuki "in a long time" after she went to meet him at work... So does that mean that Mitsuki called it quits after a while (maybe right after Akane found out about this she felt too guilty to go on?) or is there more to it? I guess we'll see for ourselves (or not)...
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