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Old 2006-03-26, 00:58   Link #61
Demongod86
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Sasuke redeeming himself? Hmmm...Majin Vegeta did it. Hardworking or not, if we compare Sasuke to his spiked-veggie super saiyan counterpart, mr. spiked vegetable ALSO went to the dark side for more power even AFTER he decided to become one of the good guys, if only to give Goku that ONE GOOD FIGHT. The thing is, Vegeta did THAT when the gap between him and goku was one of a small MARGIN. Sure, Goku might be slightly better, but every single time Vegeta goes in and gets his butt kicked by the bad guy, goku's saying "oh god, if vegeta got pwned, then I'm definitely screwed! Time to train harder!".

The difference here is that the gap between itachi and sasuke isn't a margin...the last time the two fought, it was a complete and utter joke. Sasuke just got his ass beat. Sharingan+Chidori what? *deflects wrist, snaps wrist* And just because Itachi felt malicious, he used the Mangekyou Sharingan just for overkill.

Sasuke knows that his older brother will turn him into a complete joke, hardworker that he is or not, so he goes for the quick fix, since he really doesn't have the time to simply train forever cuz Itachi will show up again ready to serve up another pwn-a-la-carte.

Then again, Sasuke does have a giant ego. After he and Naruto fought on that rooftop, he said "WTF?! How is he as good as ME? A GENIUS? WTF HAVE I BEEN DOING? Time to go to Orochimaru!"

Maybe after Orochimaru tries to bodysnatch him that Sasuke will get his head put on straight, or maybe the .//Hackatsuki faction will come (namely Itachi) and annihilate Orochimaru just as he would try to bodysnatch Sasuke, and leave the fight for another time...but I really dunno...
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Old 2006-03-26, 01:36   Link #62
Thrillhouse
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I think he should just die to the hands of Naruto or Itachi.
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Old 2006-03-26, 03:09   Link #63
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I think Sasuke will be redeemed, but I don't see the series ending happily. I'm reminded of a scene from early on in the manga, where Kakashi takes Team 7 to look at statues (well, monuments of some kind), and Naruto boasts proudly that one day his name will be on one, not realizing that they're memorials for ninja who died for the village.

I can't help but think this is forshadowing, and that what we'll see at the end, is Naruto sacrificing himself to save the village and Sasuke as well. It seems plausible that Naruto will die young, not unlike the 4th (this is also in keeping with talk in the manga lately of Naruto shortening his lifespan by drawing on Kyuubi's power too often). Assuming Itachi and Orochimaru are removed from the picture, Sasuke's own nature would make it hard for him to go back to Konoha. I think it'd take a something as drastic as Naruto's martydom (perhaps he extracts a promise from Sasuke before he passes away -- in a scene redolent of the one with Haku maybe), to realize the importance of his friends and his home village.

I suppose in my scenario then, Naruto would be the only ninja to ever be awarded the title of Hokage posthumously, and Sasuke would become the 7th.

Could happen...maybe
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Old 2006-03-26, 03:33   Link #64
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Is it still possible for Sasuke to be redeemed, or is he in too deep.
To Naruto and Sakura, yeah, evererything can go back to normal, but the village would just (at least) send him to prison or something for what he's done.
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Old 2006-03-26, 04:27   Link #65
Last_Hope
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Originally Posted by Shiryuu
To Naruto and Sakura, yeah, evererything can go back to normal, but the village would just (at least) send him to prison or something for what he's done.
I´m not so sure about that since Sasuke does have the attractive bloodline limit Sharingan. Certainly he would get some special restrictions at first but I don´t think he would be sent to prison.

Sasuke wants to rebuild his clan once again (seems like killing Itachi is a higher priority at the moment though) and I´m sure Konoha wants the same thing.
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Old 2006-03-26, 08:16   Link #66
Kunimi_Hiro
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Originally Posted by Thrillhouse
I think he should just die to the hands of Naruto or Itachi.
... gives Thrillhouse the chill pill.

I think that scenario is a lil bit extreme. However, I think it's also plausible that what you said can also happen
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Old 2006-03-26, 12:33   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
Ermmm, Anko was an apprentice of Orochimaru when he was a Shinoby of Konoha village and none new about his experiments, this "Anko betrayed the village and then Konoha took her back" never was implied it happened.

And then the problem here is not that Sasuke didn't do any harm to Konoha, but he, in the moment he decided to go to Orochimaru, he became a missing NIn , and a Potential treat, and as facts this shinoby are treated like criminals, while Konoha is doing the total opposite, they are wasting other valuable shinobies lives to find and retrieve a Shinoby that can very well enter Konoha pretending to be an ally, but in reality he is just there as a spy.

And people say that he was deceived by Orochimaru, but so was Anakin Skywalker, and he ended up as Darth Vader.
That is my perception. We don't know when the cursed seal was used on Anko. It is possible that it happened after Oro left Konoha. Also, with the talk based on Oro's throwing her away (if I remember correctly), there is a non-negligible possibility that even though Oro's path was clearly decided, not Anko but Oro was the one that decided on the separation.

Someone was questioning whether Sakura would follow Sasuke in his evil path. I believe Anko was already on that path. So, it is logical to assume that her bond to Oro would be considered as a matter of treason. If she was doing that, she was following Oro because she wanted to help him and that is bigger problem that Sasuke's condition.

Regarding Sasuke's condition, considering his motives, it is clear to Konoha that his goal is totally different from Oro's. His goal is to destroy Itachi. After that it doesn't matter what happens to him. So, as long as Itachi is destroyed and Konoha can retrieve him before Oro's deadline, there shouldn't be any problem regarding him betraying Konoha. So, it will not be a matter of Skywalker-Darth Wader relationship after killing Itachi. That's why Naruto and the others are racing against time.

Also, Oro has been treated as a criminal. Similarly, Itachi has been treated as a criminal. As long as a person - a missing nin - has been lost in the darkness, Konoha will not try to turn this person back to humanity.
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Old 2006-03-26, 12:51   Link #68
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
That is my perception. We don't know when the cursed seal was used on Anko. It is possible that it happened after Oro left Konoha. Also, with the talk based on Oro's throwing her away (if I remember correctly), there is a non-negligible possibility that even though Oro's path was clearly decided, not Anko but Oro was the one that decided on the separation.
There shouldn't be any doubt about who threw who away when we are talking about Oro and Anko in the same sentence. It was made clear in the early episodes of Naruto, in the forest during the Chunin exam when Anko confronts Oro, that Oro tossed her away like a tissue after one blows ones nose. Anko just wasn't good enough of a tool for Oro-sama even though she is one out of 10 victims who lived through after getting the curse seal.

Quote:
Regarding Sasuke's condition, considering his motives, it is clear to Konoha that his goal is totally different from Oro's. His goal is to destroy Itachi. After that it doesn't matter what happens to him.
Regardless of Sasuke's ultimate goal, as soon as he left the village to the person who has opted to destroy Konoha, and in the process, has killed Konoha's hokage, he (Sasuke) has committed a treason. In other word, he is a bloody traitor. That is the bottom line. Btw, it's a fallacy to say everyone in Konoha knows Sasuke's motif, that he wants to kill his brother.
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Old 2006-03-27, 08:04   Link #69
astayanax
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Btw, it's a fallacy to say everyone in Konoha knows Sasuke's motif, that he wants to kill his brother.
Everyone don't. However, all the people that matters (Hokage, Root Anbu, Council) does.
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Old 2006-03-27, 08:23   Link #70
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
That is my perception. We don't know when the cursed seal was used on Anko. It is possible that it happened after Oro left Konoha. Also, with the talk based on Oro's throwing her away (if I remember correctly), there is a non-negligible possibility that even though Oro's path was clearly decided, not Anko but Oro was the one that decided on the separation.

But your perception is just contradictory, the hints thrown in the Forrest of death, followed by the encounter with Sandaime and Anko, have not a single hint about it, I really don’t know what kind of garbage the ANime team is creating, but surely enough, There is no indication of the Manga that Oro left Konoha with Anko, heck, When We see Oro and Jiraya Flashback we see Oro alone and not with Anko, So no, Anko couldve had not gotten the CS after Oro left Konoha.

Anko was surely Oro's disciple, but from that to say that her situation is similar to Sasuke, is just BS. Those are 2 Different scenarios, when clearly one of then Left Konoha by his own will, but the other never left the village in search for Oro.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
Also, Oro has been treated as a criminal. Similarly, Itachi has been treated as a criminal. As long as a person - a missing nin - has been lost in the darkness, Konoha will not try to turn this person back to humanity


And what the heck you think an environment with Oro and Kabuto will do to your personality? Surely, I, as A leader of an Organization would have doubts about receiving with Open arms someone that have being poison by Oro’s teaching, he is not watching Saturday morning Cartoons, he is living with the most twisted guy in Nartuo verse, not to mention that The CS is an Evil influence on him, he is maybe not a criminal, but, he is a traitor, Now that Konoha decides to bring him back in open arms is another story, but Missing Nin has been stated to be hunt down and kill for various reasons, in this case Sasuke posses secrets that Konoha can’t afford to fall into their enemies hands, not to mention the treat Sasuke is already by being Oro next container.
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Old 2006-03-27, 08:33   Link #71
Syaoran
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The one and only time Sasuke will set foot in Konoha again, with ANBU, Hokage and other Jounins knowing it, will be on the day that he's captured and gets sentenced for high treason.

He'll get back in Konoha unnoticed if he wants and only a few people will know about it, like Naruto or Sakura, but that's gonna be to settle and bill with Naruto.

I just hope that if Sasuke survives, he won't get after Naruto to kill him :|
But in the end, that might be the final clash in the story, and one of them is going to get killed... most likely a war-like scenario, with Naruto and Sasuke at each end, unleashing their full power... *shivers at the thoughts of it*
Like it's developping now, Sasuke might become the biggest bad guy. He's strong enough not to let Orochimaru take his body, but he'll be so influenced by the dark side and kinjutsu, that he's gonna turn out bad. His age is one where people easily get influenced.
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Old 2006-03-27, 10:30   Link #72
astayanax
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Sasuke back in Konoha would be so boring. If anything for a huge twist, I would like to see him with Itachi.
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Old 2006-03-27, 12:36   Link #73
Last_Hope
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Originally Posted by astayanax
Sasuke back in Konoha would be so boring. If anything for a huge twist, I would like to see him with Itachi.
That wouldn´t make sense at all. Too farfetched to actually make it into a good twist for the show.
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Old 2006-03-27, 12:55   Link #74
astayanax
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That wouldn´t make sense at all. Too farfetched to actually make it into a good twist for the show.
How so when we really don't know what happen during the night of the Uchiha massacre. As a matter of fact, the only thing we (and Sasuke know) is whatever Itachi wants him to know. Itachi is goarding Sasuke's hatred and I am almost 100% sure it isn't because he is looking for a bigger challenge seeing that he isn't even the leader of Akatsuki, and showing caution against the Sannin and stuff.

We know that the possibility of Sasuke and Itachi teaming up is improbable, but their story was done in such a way where it could be possible.
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Old 2006-03-27, 13:37   Link #75
Hunter
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness
Whenever someone seems to threaten his inflated ego, his first thought is how to get a more powerful technique, not necessarily to out work them or work even harder...Obviously during the tree-climb arc he didn't want to get showed up by "class-failure" Naruto (So I saw it more as Naruto pushing him in that instance, not his own will)...When he was a kid it was his brother's status and father's affection...

As a genin however he doesn't have the personality or seemingly the character of what I've been describing...It doesn't matter what he chose to me really...This speaks more to me about the assessment of his personality...Regarding Kakashi he treats basically his #1 technique as if it's a lo-jacked parlor trick at times...He seems ungrateful to me...You really won't change my mind on this since I've had strong-feelings about this for sometime...This isn't meant to change your established opinion, but simply give you mine...As not to take over yet another thread I'll leave it at that...
Honestly I didn't think there was a single chance to change your mind, I was just curious about the elements presented in the story leading you to believe that Sasuke doesn't work hard, or rather that he slacks off instead of training inbetween all the moments he was directly showed working hard in the manga.
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Old 2006-03-27, 15:18   Link #76
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
But your perception is just contradictory, the hints thrown in the Forrest of death, followed by the encounter with Sandaime and Anko, have not a single hint about it, I really don’t know what kind of garbage the ANime team is creating, but surely enough, There is no indication of the Manga that Oro left Konoha with Anko, heck, When We see Oro and Jiraya Flashback we see Oro alone and not with Anko, So no, Anko couldve had not gotten the CS after Oro left Konoha.

Anko was surely Oro's disciple, but from that to say that her situation is similar to Sasuke, is just BS. Those are 2 Different scenarios, when clearly one of then Left Konoha by his own will, but the other never left the village in search for Oro.
As I said that is my perception. But, to give the points that made me think so, let's go with the manga. Orochimaru said that he threw her away. She wasn't the one who left him first according to Oro. We can assume that the cursed seal most probably took place after Oro left Konoha. And the chances for the subordinate following his master at that time is quite high especially if that person's friend (Jiraiya) also did a similar thing. Anko also said, regarding the person whom Oro gave the cursed seal, "you must really like that kid". So, in Anko's perception, he must have liked Anko back then. You normally wouldn't hate a person whom you think likes you, would you? Oro also said "jealous are we". Why would he say that?

Quote:
And what the heck you think an environment with Oro and Kabuto will do to your personality? Surely, I, as A leader of an Organization would have doubts about receiving with Open arms someone that have being poison by Oro’s teaching, he is not watching Saturday morning Cartoons, he is living with the most twisted guy in Nartuo verse, not to mention that The CS is an Evil influence on him, he is maybe not a criminal, but, he is a traitor, Now that Konoha decides to bring him back in open arms is another story, but Missing Nin has been stated to be hunt down and kill for various reasons, in this case Sasuke posses secrets that Konoha can’t afford to fall into their enemies hands, not to mention the treat Sasuke is already by being Oro next container.
I am not saying that Sasuke is an angel, he is indeed a traitor because of making a deal with Oro. But, as long as he decides to go back to Konoha without giving any harm to Konoha, he will deserve to be forgiven - because of his past and because of the people who believe him. Until that point, he will be pursued to be saved rather than killed by the people who still believe in him. Neither Itachi nor Oro had the same qualities when they left Konoha - they were already criminals. And, lastly, CS is not a reason to consider someone as evil, since Anko is a trusted jounin who carries the same seal.
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Old 2006-03-27, 15:26   Link #77
TooPurePureBoy
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We can assume that the cursed seal most probably took place after Oro left Konoha.
Why can we assume that?

It doesn't even matter anyway. If Anko was loyal to Oro during that period, it still wouldn't be her fault. She was assigned a teacher by the village of Konoha. As a young fledgling ninja she has every reason to believe no matter how twisted he may have come off (and I don't think Oro really showed his trueself around her much) she could still say to herself "well jeez, I know he seems wierd but....Sarutobi and other Jounin who know a lot more about what's right and wrong say he's legit".

Sasuke on the other had went to Oro knowing all too well how twisted and evil he is.

That is the difference.
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Old 2006-03-27, 15:32   Link #78
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all im gonna say is i dont think he can redeeme himeself...unless he was to make a great sacrafice for the village (i doubt that will happen). i just think he might die at the hands of naruto or itachi, but it would be funny if he died at the hands of sakura
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Old 2006-03-27, 16:06   Link #79
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by Nine-Tails-Nin
Sasuke on the other had went to Oro knowing all too well how twisted and evil he is.

That is the difference.
I believe, as the student of a very intelligent ninja who might have selected her specially, she should be knowledgable enough to be able to differentiate between good and bad. And Sasuke's case is more curable than another person's case, who follows the bad person based on his/her emotions towards that bad person rather than towards a third party.
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Old 2006-03-27, 19:10   Link #80
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I think that all of this actually sums up to Sasuke's psychological problem of Itachi killing the entire clan, and he being a kid who saw it TWICE through the MS sharingan. Once Itachi is dead (killed by Sasuke or turned into a nice guy by sasuke, which i dont see happening any time soon or at all) sasuke should become A NORMAL HUMAN BEING. He wouldn't have that thought in his head about him having to kill his beloved and hated brother and no more power hunger. But since Naruto resembles dragonball z A LITTLE BIT, first it will be another 50 episodes before Oro dies, and then like 100 episodes to see a fight between Itachi and any other charachter. Then like 20 episodes to kill Itachi and some evil plot coming out of it. But thats just my take on it. Of COURSE this is without Oro taking over sasuke's body.

After Itachi is dead, he will at least be accepted by naruto (who should be hokage by that time or abt to become hokage) and sakura (like no s***) and all of the genins that where in the chunin exams, as well as the jounin and chunin teachers. The rest of konoha can be put straight by naruto as hokage i guess.
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