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Old 2006-03-25, 14:48   Link #21
Ryuujin
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Can he do it? Maybe.

Will he? Hell no.
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Old 2006-03-25, 17:28   Link #22
animernq
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime_o_Daisuki
If I remember correctly, early on in the series, Orochimaru tells Kabuto that he left Akatsuki because Itachi had become stronger than him and he would no longer be able to acquire Itachi's body. Then, he explains that he decided to look for another member of the same clan, i.e. Sasuke, the only known survivor of that clan, and take his body. But! if Orochimaru is weaker than Itachi then how can Sasuke become stronger than Itachi under the tutelage of someone who is also weaker than Itachi. I would be interested in seeing other opinions on this. However, if I made a mistake in recalling why Orochimaru left Akatsuki then I'm sorry and please don't hate me
In every fighting anime I have seen the main character always ends up being stronger than their teacher and beats those stronger than their teacher (Dragonball being a prime example).
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Old 2006-03-25, 18:11   Link #23
gibits
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
I wouldn't be surprised to see Itachi on the verge of winning in their battle, but then letting Sasuke kill him, because he really did have feelings for his brother deep down after all. How sweet.
I always felt that Itachi left Sasuke alive because he just couldn't bring himself to kill him. I think that would make for a much better plot twist, since Itachi is protaryed as such a heartless guy and the fact that Itachi fanboys have been inventing complicated theories to explain it.

After Itachi has been dealt his deathbow....
Sasuke: I want to know why you left me alive that night! Why did you show me those thing in the basement?
Itachi: .....Do you really need to ask?
Sasuke: Was it to make me into your perfect oppentent? Someone that would suppress you?
Itachi:...... no.....
Sasuke: was it because there was this huge conspiracy by the leaf and the Uchiha was in on it?
Itachi:......
Sasuke: Maybe you really didn't kill everyone and you in fact came and saved me from that "other guy"!
Itachi: you are baka....
Sasuke: THEN WHY?!!!
Itachi: because when I saw you I just couldn't been myself to kill you, no other reason than that, little brother.
Sasuke: !!!!! <cry>



How that for a plot twist?
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Old 2006-03-25, 18:15   Link #24
Lumir
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As stated befor Oro just wants saskes bodie to even the playing ground. Maby he just wants saske for his legit sharigan and the ligit body to utilize it to its fullest. Other then itachi's sharingan techs i seen no way he can pass oro. Oro having the ability to transfer his soul/mind makes him the 2nd strongest, naruto being the first.
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Old 2006-03-25, 18:44   Link #25
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotengu
Sasuke has gone to Orochimaru under the stipulation that Oro is gonna train him to become stronger. If oro doesn't at least pretend train him then why would sasuke stay with him, or even go there in the first place. Especially when he has all of konoha(soppy wimps) to back him up?
Maybe Oro also trains the potential container so the can be prepared and can easily adapt to Oro's Spirit in the moment the Body switching juts is made.
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Old 2006-03-25, 21:35   Link #26
Kotengu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik
Maybe Oro also trains the potential container so the can be prepared and can easily adapt to Oro's Spirit in the moment the Body switching juts is made.
I think this is also the case. Orochimaru made his current body kill a bunch of his friends before he possesed him, he trained up kimimaro in hopes of getting his body, and he also said that he wanted to die sasuke more his color before getting him.
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Old 2006-04-07, 11:34   Link #27
teddychan
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orochimaru si strong but losing his arm is his worst thing in his life because he can't use his other techniques that's why he say that itachi is much stronger than orochimaru so if he had his arm back itachi is no longer a threat so I think will train sasuke so even if sasuke defeat Itachi he can still get the body of sasuke even if sasuke escape
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Old 2006-04-07, 12:01   Link #28
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teddychan
orochimaru si strong but losing his arm is his worst thing in his life because he can't use his other techniques that's why he say that itachi is much stronger than orochimaru so if he had his arm back itachi is no longer a threat so I think will train sasuke so even if sasuke defeat Itachi he can still get the body of sasuke even if sasuke escape
Wrong, Oro was talking about how strong Itachi was, reffering to his state at the moment he left Akatsuki, in this case with 2 working arms.

I don’t usually complaint about spelling or grammar, but at least use some coma’s and puntuation marks.
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Old 2006-04-07, 16:05   Link #29
Zek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShurikenJay
Akatsuki seems to be worried about Orochimaru obtaining sharingan.

Deidara even proposed that all the members join together to take out Orochimaru.

If something like that is necessary then it would imply that sharingan is what created the dichotomy in strength between Itachi and Orochimaru.

The only thing that puzzles me is, if all Orochimaru wants is sharingan, then why bother to train Sasuke at all?

After all once he gains him as a container every single jutsu Orochimaru knows will be at Sasuke's disposal, or rather Orochimaru gains nothing from training someone in his own jutsu and then aquiring the body.

It can't be said that Oro is grooming Sasuke to become a more suitable container because he was ready to obtain him during the Sound 5 arc, he just ran out of time.

Maybe he is just keeping Sasuke's time occupied with training until the day comes when he can obtain his body.

I hope we atleast see what Sasuke has learned and if the training served any useful purpose, other than to give Sasuke something to do during the time skip.
Well, he was going to take Sasuke's body right away because he was desperate, his body was dying thanks to Sandaime's seal. It was certainly possible, but not necessarily ideal. I think Oro may benefit from having a strong body, because otherwise why would he have done the whole deathmatch to determine who among the prisoners was stronger instead of picking someone with a bloodline? On top of that, he knows that Sasuke won't stay of his own will unless Oro trains him.
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Old 2006-04-07, 16:32   Link #30
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuujin
Can he do it? Maybe.

Will he? Hell no.
I agree. He could possibly do it...

But highly doubtful he will.

Itachi's potential is too amazing ( I don't care what Oro said about Sasuke having more).
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Old 2006-04-07, 18:50   Link #31
ri0
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You don't know anything about Itachi's potential and nothing about Sasuke's either... The only given statement concerning this topic is the one you don't like. So how can you say Itachi has more^^
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Old 2006-04-08, 23:29   Link #32
Soma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha
I agree. He could possibly do it...

But highly doubtful he will.

Itachi's potential is too amazing ( I don't care what Oro said about Sasuke having more).
What kind of ridiculous statement is that?

"Oh the manga said one thing, but since I don't like it, I'll just disregard it!"

Laughable.
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Old 2006-04-08, 23:57   Link #33
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0
You don't know anything about Itachi's potential and nothing about Sasuke's either... The only given statement concerning this topic is the one you don't like. So how can you say Itachi has more^^
Oh man its just my opinion! Yes, I agree that at this point it is impossible to know- i acutally hope that Sasuke has more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Soma
What kind of ridiculous statement is that?

"Oh the manga said one thing, but since I don't like it, I'll just disregard it!"

Laughable.
Dude, you're way outta line with that statement, mercy please Soma?

1) As, I explained, there are somethings I def. think are facts and try to back up my claims (that Jiraiya is a genius) but some opinions that i just like having (Itachi has more potential than Sasuke). It's not too ridiculous to think Itachi has more potential w/ all his achievements (8 yr chuunin 13 yr ANBU captain), is it? Sorry if it is.

2) You know, the manga and anime DID NOT say Sasuke had more potential for sure. Orochimaru just said he could see it in Sasuke's eyes - I don't think that's a 100% is it? Nobody else said "Sasuke I'm 100% sure you could beat Itachi" only thing close was Kakashi when he said "If you want to beat your brother, dont' rely on the curse seal." I think that statement left enough room for ppl to have the opinion that Itachi has more potential w/o being "laughable."

Does anyone else think I am being ridiculous or is Soma out of line?
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Old 2006-04-09, 00:16   Link #34
Zek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha
1) As, I explained, there are somethings I def. think are facts and try to back up my claims (that Jiraiya is a genius) but some opinions that i just like having (Itachi has more potential than Sasuke). It's not too ridiculous to think Itachi has more potential w/ all his achievements (8 yr chuunin 13 yr ANBU captain), is it? Sorry if it is.
I think you're having some trouble with your definitions. Itachi's accomplishments as a child have absolutely zero to do with his potential. Potential refers to how strong a ninja is capable of becoming, not how quickly they get there(which would be more aptly described as "talent"). Lee has no talent but he has a great deal of potential, as seen by how strong he's become. Not just any ordinary ninja can ever hope to reach Lee's level. Most geniuses in this series have a good deal of potential as well, but not necessarily the most; Neji is a genius no doubt about it, but few would deny that Naruto had the potential to become much greater than him. Potential is an abstract concept that isn't well defined by the series, but nonetheless it's clear that it's a very different thing from talent. Sasuke is a late bloomer compared to Itachi, but it seems highly likely both from Oro's statements and simple manga logic that he has greater potential.
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Old 2006-04-09, 00:34   Link #35
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
I think you're having some trouble with your definitions. Itachi's accomplishments as a child have absolutely zero to do with his potential. Potential refers to how strong a ninja is capable of becoming, not how quickly they get there(which would be more aptly described as "talent"). Lee has no talent but he has a great deal of potential, as seen by how strong he's become. Not just any ordinary ninja can ever hope to reach Lee's level. Most geniuses in this series have a good deal of potential as well, but not necessarily the most; Neji is a genius no doubt about it, but few would deny that Naruto had the potential to become much greater than him. Potential is an abstract concept that isn't well defined by the series, but nonetheless it's clear that it's a very different thing from talent. Sasuke is a late bloomer compared to Itachi, but it seems highly likely both from Oro's statements and simple manga logic that he has greater potential.
I know what you're saying, but I think you missed my point. Itachi's childhood accomplishments has abs. 0 to do w/ his potential??? Umm... i think it says that he has incredible potential. You're right Sasuke has incredible potential too, but from what I've seen I think (just my opinon) Itachi still has more... I don't think he's done blooming. Are you saying that b/c Sasuke is a late bloomer he has more potential?

Point is you don't really know...

Also, simple Manga Logic, well yes but thats like saying the main guy will always win therefore he will win. So I tend not to use those in my opinions hoping that Kishi will not follow those rules.

The question really is not who is or has more potential, it is

"Is it 'laughable' to think Itachi has more?" I think its okay to have that opinion from what we've seen.

YES I COULD BE WRONG (and most likely the anime b/c of "manga logic" sasuke will bloom.) But do you think its laughable to think Itachi has more potential after reading Oro's statement about sasuke? Disagreeing is one thing. Saying the facts point to another conclusion is another. Saying its utterly ridiculous to think Itachi has more potential is still another *and the heart of this question...

I would say laughable is saying Naruto is jiraiya's son or that Sasuke is Oro's son and that they're pitting their sons against each other. But to say that is on the lvl of me just having the opinion that Itachi is stronger is another.

@ Zek: You're arguing about the def. of potential and Sasuke's vs Itachi and that I'm wrong about Itachi...- that's a cool and worthy debate. Soma is saying something totally different.
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Old 2006-04-09, 04:44   Link #36
ri0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s-class uchiha
I know what you're saying, but I think you missed my point. Itachi's childhood accomplishments has abs. 0 to do w/ his potential??? Umm... i think it says that he has incredible potential. You're right Sasuke has incredible potential too, but from what I've seen I think (just my opinon) Itachi still has more... I don't think he's done blooming. Are you saying that b/c Sasuke is a late bloomer he has more potential?
Exactly^^ But late bloomer isn't the reason he has more potential...

Example: An academy could be super fast at learning henge no jutsu... he is doing it so fast that every other kid needs two weeks more.
But then he can't perform the more complex Jutsu... Another kid who took 3 weeks to perform henge can perform all other Jutsu but it takes time. So who has more potential?
It could be the same with Itachi: He advanced to a superfucking lvl in a very short time period but still has less potential than Sasuke. Sasuke only needs longer to get to his peak. So someday Sasuke will beat Itachi... The question is if he reaches this point before he dies ^^
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Old 2006-04-09, 08:22   Link #37
Corn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibits
I always felt that Itachi left Sasuke alive because he just couldn't bring himself to kill him. I think that would make for a much better plot twist, since Itachi is protaryed as such a heartless guy and the fact that Itachi fanboys have been inventing complicated theories to explain it.

After Itachi has been dealt his deathbow....
Sasuke: I want to know why you left me alive that night! Why did you show me those thing in the basement?
Itachi: .....Do you really need to ask?
Sasuke: Was it to make me into your perfect oppentent? Someone that would suppress you?
Itachi:...... no.....
Sasuke: was it because there was this huge conspiracy by the leaf and the Uchiha was in on it?
Itachi:......
Sasuke: Maybe you really didn't kill everyone and you in fact came and saved me from that "other guy"!
Itachi: you are baka....
Sasuke: THEN WHY?!!!
Itachi: because when I saw you I just couldn't been myself to kill you, no other reason than that, little brother.
Sasuke: !!!!! <cry>



How that for a plot twist?
I don't think so.

Itachi said back then that he killed them all to prove he could. He probably feels inviniclble, and perhaps wants the little brother to challange him when he becomes a worthy fighter.

Didn't Itachi also told him about the uniqe sharingan that you could only gain if you killed your best friend? I think he did that because he WANTS to fight him. As a little little kid he is useless. But the potential of what he could becomes, his great.

perhaps he finds it funny and amusing that his little brother is running around like an imbecile trying to get stronger and stronger?
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Old 2006-04-09, 10:44   Link #38
s-class uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0
Exactly^^ But late bloomer isn't the reason he has more potential...

Example: An academy could be super fast at learning henge no jutsu... he is doing it so fast that every other kid needs two weeks more.
But then he can't perform the more complex Jutsu... Another kid who took 3 weeks to perform henge can perform all other Jutsu but it takes time. So who has more potential?
It could be the same with Itachi: He advanced to a superfucking lvl in a very short time period but still has less potential than Sasuke. Sasuke only needs longer to get to his peak. So someday Sasuke will beat Itachi... The question is if he reaches this point before he dies ^^
I agree that you can't absolutely tell, but on the flip side you can't say "Itachi was so crazy when he was a kid and did so much more than Sasuke, but errm... Sasuke has more potential!"

But when Sandaime looked at Orochimaru as a kid he knew his potential from what he did and I argue the same with Sasuke, you've seen him bloom (albeit a little later than Itachi) and you see how great he can be.

Now, I think ppl are undercutting Itachi. Kakashi was mad afraid of his potential. How can anyone look at Itachi and say his potential is done? I think b/c of the MS itachi has crazy crazy potential and lot more than Sasuke w/o it. If sasuke were to get MS then b/c of the burning drive within him his potential will also sky rocket.

Just clarify - My opinion from what we've seen = Itachi > Sasuke potential.
My guess b/c of story the line = the manga will end up showing Sasuke > Itachi
The facts = Can't have one yet, just guesses
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Old 2006-04-12, 20:58   Link #39
poseur
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fine..........let's say if both bros have equal potential..............

itachi > sasuke (in terms of genius)

cuz itachi managed/accomplished most "crap" by himself

while sasuke had to "rely" on "others" to bring out the so-called "potential" (seems that the author gimped him)
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Old 2006-04-15, 15:39   Link #40
Isamu_Dysan
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Ya, except who knows how much help itachi really had... maybe his dad helped him, also he had that scroll that told him how to use the Sharingan technique that mind kills your opponent... And though everyone says the curse seal makes you weak by relying on it, it sure as hell bossts peoples powers a crap load... maybe with that and some more unique skills he'd be faster then itachi... and speed seems to be a powerful weapon.
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