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Old 2003-12-18, 20:35   Link #21
bobofet
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if Itachi can kill a whole clan of Sharingan users at age 13, a whole freaking clan (there are probably hokage-like jounins amongst them) at age 13! I'm sure he knows he can kick jiraiya's ass if he wants to. Seriously, I am wondering whether it's because of guilt that Itachi doesn't want to fight, maybe he's really a good guy and only wiped the clan out to make sasuke stronger...
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Old 2003-12-18, 20:47   Link #22
Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tboz
I think Taijutsu is more like martial arts and more than that just attacking and blocking. There are feints, reflexes, left/right stances and they can influence a fight alot. How you describe Taijutsu seems like brawling to me.

I don't know any martial art, but I think there is always a possibility to counter every move. It can be useful if you can predict or catch a move before its executed and hit back at any opening/death spot.

For one to really do that, I think one must really gain these knowledge through previous fights and analysing their opponents closely. Assuming that Kakashi can keep up with Gai, he would probably have to fight Gai more often to really learn how best to counter his moves.

My 2 cents.
Yes, there is a possible way to counter every form of martial arts attack. For instance, a jab is countered by a simple kick to the groin. A kick to the groin is countered by leaning to the side and giving the guy a back-fist. The back-fist is countered by stepping into it and elbowing someone in the face. The elbow to the face is countered by a duck and a punch to the stomach/groin, etc. Repeat this down the line.
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Old 2003-12-18, 21:03   Link #23
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tboz
How you describe Taijutsu seems like brawling to me.

I don't know any martial art, but I think there is always a possibility to counter every move. It can be useful if you can predict or catch a move before its executed and hit back at any opening/death spot.
That's just the thing...I didn't mean for it to be seem like a brawl.

Taijutsu is just a raw athletic ability thing when used by itself. You throw a punch. If I'm faster, I can dodge/counter, but unless I know what you're going to do before you do it (i.e. "He always uppercuts after a jump-kick!") you can't really tell one move from the next. Feints and all, you know.

With genjutsu and ninjutsu, there's always a trick to the attack...not so in taijutsu. (groin kick does not beat jab...if he jabs first, his fist is already going by the time you kick. He's going to hit you and knock you off balance if you're on one foot.)

But you can't just say, "Ok! Lee's Spinning Leaf Wind Kick always hits in Spot X!" and have a counter for it every time. It all depends on how and when he uses it. The genjutsu and ninjutsu attacks are either hit or miss. If you know the trick, you're immune. If not, you take the hit. In taijutsu, block high, or uppercut doesn't always counter roundhouse. It depends on the moment. There's no 100% counter for "eye gouge", or "smack upside the head", while anyone who knows the trick to Lee's Lotus can have a counter for it.
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Old 2003-12-18, 21:05   Link #24
Tboz
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Ok ok... have Orochimaru and Itachi fought each other before?

I think nothing is mentioned of that yet. What Orochimaru said could be his presumptions only. Even then, the senins have the ability to destroy a village if they want to, Itachi may just be a little more powerful.

And I think no one is the strongest among the three senins too. I heard this theory from somewhere before... can't remember where...
Spoiler:
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Old 2003-12-18, 21:05   Link #25
duncankid
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itachi is no coward himself.... his aim is juz to get naruto, so wat for fight jiraya and all the other jounin... isnt he finding more trouble for himself...since he has to fight so many shinobi at the same time... this will put him in a big disadvantage.... to capture naruto, he can get it another time thus he juz skip this fight with jiraya...
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Old 2003-12-18, 21:35   Link #26
Shadamehr
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Just thought I'd put in my input. As I recall, way at the beginning when Kakashi first introduced the Sharingan, they specifically said the Sharingan can potentially 'read and defeat' *every* type of ninjutsu, genjutsu, *and* taijutsu.

Later, when Lee fights Sasuke, he only says a taijutsu specialist is the 'worst possible matchup' for a Sharingan specialist. This does not mean that the Sharingan is useless against taijutsu, it just means it is not as useful as it is against ninjutsu and genjutsu. Recall that
Spoiler:
This means that the Sharingan helps react to physical motions.

So basically, the use of the Sharingan against taijutsu is that it lets very you quickly realize things about new opponents like 'when Lee steps in with his right foot, he's going to use Konoha Senpu' or 'when kage-bunshin'ed Naruto has three clones turn around and duck, he's going to use Naruto Rendan' and react accordingly.
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Old 2003-12-18, 22:01   Link #27
Zeratul
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he doesnt, he has never faced a legendary sennin and he hasnt seen one fight either

Even if he did beat Jiraiya it would be at a heavy consequence. It would be stupid if he killed Jiraiya at a cost of his arms and legs
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Old 2003-12-18, 22:59   Link #28
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not to mention that buildings blowing up will attract the attention of other ninja... and Itachi is not so rash as to fight against a whole ninja village.
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Old 2003-12-18, 22:59   Link #29
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadamehr
Just thought I'd put in my input. As I recall, way at the beginning when Kakashi first introduced the Sharingan, they specifically said the Sharingan can potentially 'read and defeat' *every* type of ninjutsu, genjutsu, *and* taijutsu.
All the Sharingan are doing is helping him discern what's coming. Which helps because you can dodge. I never said the Sharingan don't help. I just said there's no "counter" for taijutsu moves like there is with genjutsu and ninjutsu.

I do think they would let you see enough detail to see patterns, and such, but Sasuke just knows the attacks coming for him and has extra time to react, he doesn't think, "If I punch Lee's Konoha Senpu after the third revolution, he's open to a groin hit!" because taijutsu move don't have specific counters. You can get out of the way, and hit him, which the Sharingan would probably let him do...but if the attacker's quick enough, it still doesn't do him any good.
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Old 2003-12-18, 23:30   Link #30
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i have read in other websites and in this forum alot that orochihamaru is afraid of itachi ... and itachi is much more powerful then him .... but i have read the manga ..and i never remember oro or itachi .. or any1 else saying that itachi is sooo much more powerful than oro... did i miss it in the manga? orwas it in sum special ?
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Old 2003-12-18, 23:54   Link #31
Tboz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenikkusu
i have read in other websites and in this forum alot that orochihamaru is afraid of itachi ... and itachi is much more powerful then him .... but i have read the manga ..and i never remember oro or itachi .. or any1 else saying that itachi is sooo much more powerful than oro... did i miss it in the manga? orwas it in sum special ?
In chapter 140 of the manga, Orochimaru told Kabuto that Itachi is stronger than him.

How much stronger is still unknown, but I think he's only slightly stronger.
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Old 2003-12-19, 00:59   Link #32
Kamui4356
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Itachi didn't fight because it was too risky. Even if he's stronger than Jiraiya, he might not be able to win without getting pretty badly injuried. Let's say they fight, Itachi kills Jiraiya, but is seriously wounded. After seeing jiraiya die, Naruto goes into berserk kyubi mode. It this point any chance of kidnapping naruto is gone, they'd probably have to kill him. Kill Naruto, fail mission.
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Old 2003-12-19, 10:16   Link #33
gruvy_qc
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If Naruto enter in kyuubi mode and Itachi is seriously wounded, could Naruto kill Itachi?
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Old 2003-12-19, 10:28   Link #34
ChouOishii
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to people saying that it's easier to copy ninjutsu/genjutsu than taijutsu..

then how come sasuke can't do kage bunshin yet?
and...
Spoiler:


basically sharingan lets him see through the technique to determine *how* it's being done, but it doesn't necessarily let him copy it on the spot. he still needs to practice it and built up enough chakra, just like he'd need to practice taijutsu to make it as effective as lee's. remember, kakashi is called the copy ninja because it's a big deal for him to be able to imitate his opponents on the spot, not because he's just like every other sharingan user out there. and I mean it's fairly obvious that orochimaru gave him his eye, what with the scar and all the hints in the series so far that they have some kind of past relationship.
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Old 2003-12-19, 10:36   Link #35
Tboz
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Hmm... maybe it has something to do with the number of flecks in his eyes?
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Old 2003-12-19, 11:20   Link #36
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it doies Sasuke doesnt have a full sharingan, his is under developed, with his "half" sharingan as im calling it, he can only barely copy a jutsu, he needs to practice like mad to be able to do it, and he cant do mange sharingan yet, as that technique is only for when u mastered the sharingan, Sasuke hasnt, but i feel that once u get 3 flecks in each eye u can copy and do a jutsu on the spot, if u have enuff chakra, and you're using your eye to copy the jutsu, and not just to see better, as i think u hafta want to copy a justu when u see it, u just cant look with sharingan on and copy, u have to want to, so yea, u need 3 flecks
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Old 2003-12-19, 11:44   Link #37
Eggman
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I think Gai could beat Itachi. Why? Simple. In order for Gai to teach Rock Lee the Opening of the Gates, he'd have to know it too right? You could probably follow from that that Gai should be able to at least open 5, if not all of them. Sure, he'd end up dead, but Gai would annihilate Itachi in seconds.
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Old 2003-12-19, 12:00   Link #38
ChouOishii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tboz
Hmm... maybe it has something to do with the number of flecks in his eyes?
oh yeah.. my bad ^^;

still though, kakashi only has one sharingan, so technically sasuke has 4 dots while kakashi only has 3
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Old 2003-12-19, 12:41   Link #39
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChouOishii
oh yeah.. my bad ^^;

still though, kakashi only has one sharingan, so technically sasuke has 4 dots while kakashi only has 3
but kakashi has 3 flecks in his one eye. which makes it more powerful than sasuke's sharingan.

sasuke started out with one and 2, then moved on to 2 and 2. so he is gradualy growing more strong.
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Old 2003-12-19, 13:17   Link #40
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChouOishii
remember, kakashi is called the copy ninja because it's a big deal for him to be able to imitate his opponents on the spot, not because he's just like every other sharingan user out there. and I mean it's fairly obvious that orochimaru gave him his eye, what with the scar and all the hints in the series so far that they have some kind of past relationship.
Ok, I'm just going by the fansubbed anime episodes on this but...

Kakashi isn't called THE copy ninja. Zabuza called him "The Leaf Village's Copy Ninja". Which would imply that there were other copy ninjas from other villages.

It's also not obvious that he got the sharingan from Orochimaru. It looks like they have a past relationship, because Orochimaru is from the Leaf Village. It's not like they wouldn't have known each other. It's certain that Kakashi didn't have the eye to start out.

It's also obvious that Orochimaru didn't give it to him (once again, anime subs.) because when Orochimaru runs into Kakashi when he's protecting Sasuke, Orochimaru tells Kakashi, "I see you got what you desired." in reference to the sharingan.

Maybe Kakashi used some of his techniques to get the eye from one of the clan members that Itachi killed. It'll be answered later, I imagine. I just hope Kakashi finds a way to get buffer, or hasnt' shown the full extent of his powers yet.
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