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Old 2004-02-06, 11:04   Link #281
Xan
the Figure
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Age: 34
erm??? u mean there's totally no pixelation at all?? i'm using both videolan (xvid alpha) and wmp (xvid beta) and i get the same results. maybe it's my graphics card (but it's not too bad, a radeon 7000 with 32mb ram)... or maybe i'm just too picky with the quality...

in more detail abt the prob, it's mostly happens when the scene's supposed to be foggy or smoky... kinda like anti-aliasing. not exactly pixelated, but just not sharp... (erm, i'm kinda expecting super sharp quality...)

maybe it's just the codecs... though dvd-quality, to me i still think it's far from prefect... and i'm referring to actual dvd movies... codecs' are simply lossy at the moment... still a long time before codec can compress and still be lossless... no fault of the subbers... this case not only affects gsg, but other animes that have lots of smoke/fog scenes, e.g. chrno crusade.. those without such scenes have superbly sharp images...
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Old 2004-02-06, 20:25   Link #282
Lina
moo.
 
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Just saw episode 10.

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-02-07, 03:17   Link #283
tcrystalis
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I am downloading several different fansubs of gsg. does anyone know which one has the best translations? Triad is the only one that I think is actually bad. amare is translated as fever instead of love and the translation is very different from anoe and totan. I might be wrong though. It could be that the title translation is the exception and the rest of the show is translated better than the others, anybody have any thoughts or opinions?
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Old 2004-02-07, 03:17   Link #284
The Faction's Lord
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Welll, from episode 10 I think that
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Old 2004-02-07, 06:30   Link #285
Anlushac11
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Cool

My opinions of the opinions of the opinions...

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Last edited by Anlushac11; 2004-02-07 at 06:53.
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Old 2004-02-07, 14:22   Link #286
Dragosmore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrystalis
I am downloading several different fansubs of gsg. does anyone know which one has the best translations? Triad is the only one that I think is actually bad. amare is translated as fever instead of love and the translation is very different from anoe and totan. I might be wrong though. It could be that the title translation is the exception and the rest of the show is translated better than the others, anybody have any thoughts or opinions?
GSG is one of the shows I actually don't work on for Triad, but I most definitely watch the episodes they produce. If ToTan and AonE translated the title of episode of 10 as, 'Love', then they probably translated it via the Italian word (amare). But, the Japanese that's within the title as well, is read, 'Netsubyou' ( 熱病 ) and that literally means a high fever. When I watched the entire episode after it had been completed, I couldn't spot one translation error. I don't watch the other groups, but I know Triad's was fine.
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Old 2004-02-07, 19:34   Link #287
a_nevels666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrystalis
hehe, I do like your sarcasm u&t I am not being sarcastic either, I think it is a good way to make your point. First off, a corporation that is secret from the government does not make them evil. Even so this agency clearly does work for the government albeit a secret service agency. Our government has a secret service branch. This does not mean that it is ethical or good though.
Yes, but the real secret service is in fact not very secret. I got the feeling the agency from GG is really secret. So they go around more or less unchecked. Also their funding would probably come from some sort of slush-fund. (illegally using funds intended for something else)

Quote:
But back to u&t's question (although indirectly asked), the agency does what it does not for money or profit or power, but to protect the government from terrorist organizations and other underground threats like the mafia.
The end does not justify the means.

Quote:
In Israel every citizen is part of the military. In the U.S. we have the draft and we have used it before.
The draft does not apply to little kids.

Quote:
It is shown that these girls would each have died had it not been for the corporation. Is Rico being treated right or is it right that the girls are seen as nothing more than tools? People in the military live and die for their country as nothing more than tools. Is it wrong how the girls are being treated? honestly, I am not so sure. Mostly I don't think so though.
Just because they saved the girls lives doesn't mean they own them and can use them as killing-machines.

Quote:
Is it wrong to kill? No, of course not.
Is it wrong to murder? Most definitely. Most people do not realize the difference between the two though.
I do realize the difference and still think both are wrong.

Besides, remember the episode where that one girl (...can't remember her name, sorry) kills that totally innocent bystander kid that works at the hotel? You're not seriously telling me you don't see anything wrong with murdering totally innocent witnesses?

Quote:
I hope this topic on whether the agency is good or bad doesn't go on too long and become an argument where everyone takes sides. I have seen it happen before. If anyone sees that happening I hope someone jumps in and changes the topic.
I don't see what's wrong with a discussion about that as long as it doesn't turn into a flame-war.
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Old 2004-02-07, 21:24   Link #288
tcrystalis
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This post is in response to anevels_666.

This will be my last direct post on the issue of the morality of the agency and I am not going to put too much research into my answers. I will answer your questions out of order too. My fear is that this will turn into a discussion that will go on for hundreds of posts just about the morality of the agency. I have seen it happen before, it is like a drug habit that people can't seem to let go, so that is why I want to try and slow it down before it starts. I would rather this forum remain a discussion about gsg and not about the morality of the agency.

I do not believe killing is wrong. I subscribe to what the Bible says on this issue. A more correct translation of commandment #6 is You shall not murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. Killing involves the taking of a life both lawful and nonlawful. I use this in the lawful sense. If you are saying that the agency is illegal than yes it is murder. However I suggest you watch episode 3 from 6.00 to 9.30 and see if you still think that the agency is illegal. This may depend on how your version was translated too. They are a government agency that is funded by parliament. when the woman says that they are criminals I believe that she is referring to her own beliefs about the morality of the agency.

The agency does not own the girls because they saved their lives nor does that give them the right to use them as killing machines. What does give them the right is that they are drafted, so to speak, in service for their country. See episode one on why little girls are used as opposed to adults. They are adopted by the government and this gives them certain other rights in the upbringing of their children. Remember this is another country and a hypothetical one at that.

The draft does not apply to little kids in Israel. This is not Israel. This is anime and the rules can be anything they want to make them. Still there are certain literary rules to follow, but that is for another topic and is unrelated at present.

The ends do not justify the means is true. I believe that the means justify the ends and to a large extent, but not 100%, I believe that the means are ethical as well as the ends, save for the killing of the polititian in ep. 3, but I am not so sure yet about all of the specifics in that ep.

Fear not, I agree with you on one point. The killing of the civilian by Rico was unethical, wrong, and a violation of the Geneva convention. She was given an unethical order and killed a civilian when she should not have. There are times when that is allowed according to the Geneva convention, but this is not one of them.

If you want to argue with me further I suggest you us eepisode 8 where Claes kills those kids in the subway I can argue against you, but my argument would be weaker. Either way say whatever you want in response, but I will not respond to your comments directly. I will read it however. I could have said something silly and stuck my foot in my mouth. I do that often enough, that is one reason I don't like to argue. I am so bad at it.

In other news, thank you for the tip dragosmore! I thought that it might be that Triad was the worst at translating. Most of what I have is by Triad. I will try to get the rest of my episodes replaced by Triad. I think that is everything. Catch ya all later and am eager to read your posts as they come up

p.s. Anlushac11, I loved your opinions of the show and totally agree wih you. I couldn't have put it better myself and wish that I could Episode 11 will be a killer for me hehe. It looks like it will be a continuation of ep 10. not sure yet though.

Last edited by tcrystalis; 2004-02-08 at 11:25. Reason: Added a beginning and ending paragraph.
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Old 2004-02-07, 21:54   Link #289
Quarkboy
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Old 2004-02-08, 00:24   Link #290
Lina
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Originally Posted by Quarkboy
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Old 2004-02-08, 03:51   Link #291
The Faction's Lord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lina
Spoiler:
I think that
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-02-08, 06:55   Link #292
a_nevels666
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Location: Obviousland--land of the obvious!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrystalis
This post is in response to anevels_666.

This will be my last direct post on the issue of the morality of the agency and I am not going to put too much research into my answers. I will answer your questions out of order too. My fear is that this will turn into a discussion that will go on for hundreds of posts just about the morality of the agency. I have seen it happen before, it is like a drug habit that people can't seem to let go, so that is why I want to try and slow it down before it starts. I would rather this forum remain a discussion about gsg and not about the morality of the agency.
I think the morality of the agency is one of the main themes of GSG and therefore belongs in this thread, but you can feel free to post about anything else.

Quote:
I do not believe killing is wrong. I subscribe to what the Bible says on this issue. A more correct translation of commandment #6 is You shall not murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. Killing involves the taking of a life both lawful and nonlawful. I use this in the lawful sense. If you are saying that the agency is illegal than yes it is murder. However I suggest you watch episode 3 from 6.00 to 9.30 and see if you still think that the agency is illegal. This may depend on how your version was translated too. They are a government agency that is funded by parliament. when the woman says that they are criminals I believe that she is referring to her own beliefs about the morality of the agency.
Even if the agency is lawful (which I'm still not 100% sure of), and even if you believe governments have the right to kill, that does not give them the right to assassinate people in peace-time without any sort of trial or giving them the chance to surrender, even if those people are criminals.

Quote:
The agency does not own the girls because they saved their lives nor does that give them the right to use them as killing machines. What does give them the right is that they are drafted, so to speak, in service for their country. See episode one on why little girls are used as opposed to adults. They are adopted by the government and this gives them certain other rights in the upbringing of their children.
You do have a point about the government adopting them. But my point was more that I'm pretty sure it's illegal to use children as soldiers. Not to mention the children are brainwashed into becoming soldiers, regardless of their own will.

Quote:
Remember this is another country and a hypothetical one at that.
Italy is hypothetical? Wow, I never knew.

Quote:
The draft does not apply to little kids in Israel. This is not Israel. This is anime and the rules can be anything they want to make them. Still there are certain literary rules to follow, but that is for another topic and is unrelated at present.
I didn't mean Israel specifically, the draft does not apply to little kids anywhere. Not in any country that respects basic human rights anyway.

Quote:
Fear not, I agree with you on one point. The killing of the civilian by Rico was unethical, wrong, and a violation of the Geneva convention. She was given an unethical order and killed a civilian when she should not have. There are times when that is allowed according to the Geneva convention, but this is not one of them.
But the 'kill-any-witnesses' policy of the agency is already enough to make them evil in my opinion.

Quote:
Either way say whatever you want in response, but I will not respond to your comments directly. I will read it however. I could have said something silly and stuck my foot in my mouth. I do that often enough, that is one reason I don't like to argue. I am so bad at it.
Since you've said you're not going to reply any more, I'll just assume this post has totally convinced you on all points.

Last edited by a_nevels666; 2004-02-08 at 13:52.
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Old 2004-02-08, 11:29   Link #293
tcrystalis
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super quick note. Nevels_666, could you change where I say commandment #5 to #6 in your post? I don't know why I typed that #. silly mistake on my part, thanks, tcrystalis.

So, anyone know when the next ep airs?
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Old 2004-02-08, 11:36   Link #294
stormy001_M1A2
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Why people keep hoping the girls will be free from the plight? Where they can go if there is no more Section 2?

Worst, machine parts require maintainence, moreso biological body like these girls. I just can't see how the story of them breaking free from Section 2 can work at this juncture.
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Old 2004-02-08, 13:31   Link #295
JBr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrystalis
So, anyone know when the next ep airs?
Subbed episode 11 was released few hours ago. Enjoy

Ep 12 (Symbiosis) airs 2/11 (i.e. next week).
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Old 2004-02-08, 18:07   Link #296
a_nevels666
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Obviousland--land of the obvious!
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2
Why people keep hoping the girls will be free from the plight? Where they can go if there is no more Section 2?

Worst, machine parts require maintainence, moreso biological body like these girls. I just can't see how the story of them breaking free from Section 2 can work at this juncture.
Given the dramatic nature of the show most of them would die trying to escape anyway.

Last edited by a_nevels666; 2004-02-09 at 04:36.
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Old 2004-02-08, 21:37   Link #297
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_nevels666
I think the morality of the agency is one of the main themes of GSG and therefore belongs in this thread, but you can feel free to post about anything else.
As a theme, the morality of the agency doesn't resonate with me as much as the life of these girls. Nothing is ever as simple as black and white, and to say that the agency is evil or wrong, may lead to focusing too much on the show's potential didactic value. At the very least the agency is like the environment from which the whole story of takes place. I think the question of morality is only one of the main themes too, but I don't think it's the most significant. I believe the story is deeper than that. After all, the poignant and charming experiences of these girls--such as the girls' relationships with one another and sometimes with their "brothers"--are being juxtaposed with the harshness of the agency. So let's just leave it at that.

Personally for me it's more about the ironies in the lives of these girls--how they try to live as they are conditioned to kill and how a mechanical (in a figurative sense) organization such as Section 2 actually binds itself on human relationships in order to function. True, some handlers are cold and don't really care but the fratello setup still persists and I find it interesting that such relationships--despite being illusory and artificial to some extent--actually become very pivotal as the story progresses. The human factor slips through despite the mechanized realities pervading the daily experiences of these girls.

That scene in ep 10 when Jose gives Henrietta a camera really got my attention. He tells her that she can use the camera to record the good memories of her life, and I can't help but notice how sadly ironic that all seems. That was quite sublime for me.
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Old 2004-02-08, 22:26   Link #298
ky_khor
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is it really end in ep13???

what ep11 is all about?
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Old 2004-02-08, 22:43   Link #299
Nargrakhan
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Wow... this is a fantastic forum. I only wish I knew of it sooner.

It seems that a lot of people here aren’t too intimate with the GSG manga. The anime – more or less – is merely an abbreviated and condensed version of the earlier chapters to this series, and like most manga-to-anime conversions, leaves a lot of details out which cause a bit of confusion and/or misconception on a few things.

With my first post here, I hope to add a little more light on the nature of the relationships between two of the GSG fratello IMHO – and offer counterpoints to the “self destruct” theories being presented here for them.


Jan and Rico
Spoiler:



Hillsire and Trelia
Spoiler:



Leaving the Corporation
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:48   Link #300
drvtech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragosmore
GSG is one of the shows I actually don't work on for Triad, but I most definitely watch the episodes they produce. If ToTan and AonE translated the title of episode of 10 as, 'Love', then they probably translated it via the Italian word (amare). But, the Japanese that's within the title as well, is read, 'Netsubyou' ( 熱病 ) and that literally means a high fever. When I watched the entire episode after it had been completed, I couldn't spot one translation error. I don't watch the other groups, but I know Triad's was fine.

Dragosmore is correct on the translation. Throughout GSG, I've always wondered why, in a few episodes, they translated the Italian different from what was there in the Japanese. I feel that the Japanese is to provide a more focused title than the Italian. Otherwise why not use febbre along with netsubyou? That would be the equivalent title. Since I had the manga and did look ahead of the series, I decided that ep 10 would be titled Feverish Love (which would be a nice mixture of both Japanese and Italian) and 11 to High Fevered Love (febbre alta is high fever and the japanese is renbo which is love) which will be explained in 11 as to why. These titles do summarize the plot of the episode and the revelation as to the real reason why Elsa and Lauro were killed would be fully revealed and, hence, why the translation of the title was as such. Although what is interesting to me is why did they switch the title around...ie-use Italian for love then Japanese for love...and Japanese for fever then Italian for fever...

/me thinks he'll delve into his old chinese books to do some kanji analysis.
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