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Old 2006-11-11, 09:02   Link #1021
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilith View Post
will Satou get a happy ending?
Well, what i do know is that tomorrow's episode is going to be one hell of a touching one.. the ending for episode 18 even had me in years just thinking about it. :3
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Old 2006-11-12, 04:53   Link #1022
physics223
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First and foremost, as what other manga readers have mentioned, ep18 deviated significantly from the manga and the novel. What can be interpreted, then? The most obvious would be that the anime series will end in a different path from the manga, as there is already a bifurcation between the path of the manga and the path of the anime. Whereas in the manga Yamazaki is not included in the tomfoolery of Kobayashi, here in the anime he is. Further explication on their return of the goods with the cooling-off period can only be found in the anime version of the series. The return had not been shown in the manga and we are shown an even more withdrawn Satou (that is, until the later chapters). Misaki was fooled by Kobayashi in that arc of the manga - resolution was non-existent, however.

In ep18, although they were very much fooled, and fooled twice they have managed to catch Kobayashi at her house (with some precise throwing done by Satou, no less ) unprepared with her bag of tricks. Devastated, Kobayashi gives them the return papers and the reason (very pathetic) why she has been trying to mulct them of their money in any way possible until they hear an inhuman noise upstairs which causes her to stop and try to mask this noise as the noise made by her 'pet.' The group, both curious and disquieted then venture to seek the truth to what lay above them, and they discovered it to be her brother and Satou's online teammate. This is a story highly different from the manga - the manga didn't have such explication as to why she has been doing unscrupulous stuff, and it certainly didn't tie her reasons with the existence of her hikkikomori brother. This was a very wonderful move by GONZO, to which I applaud them (despite what others may say).

What does this mean?

It either means that the finale (or the producers) is setting Satou up for an even greater and more painful fall (this scenario is highly abhorrent to me), or setting the plot up to end in a redemptive manner (this is what I'd prefer). I already trust what GONZO could do with still running material, like Gantz, for example, and although I felt a little disappointed at the sad ending I loved how they ended it (albeit tragically) on a note of spiritual redemption.

I know this series isn't for those with more escapist tastes as this series jars one into facing realities much worse than most of us are experiencing here, but if the producers had the foresight to develop an entirely new ending for this wonderful series starting with these major changes I applaud them - they did it too late with Gantz although I have also heard that although Last Exile wasn't really properly concluded when it was airing as an anime series they've also made a conclusion fitting for it.

Although a happy ending for these long-suffering characters may sound and seem cheesy to many, unless one's a total sadist and a nihilist, one wouldn't want to see these characters suffering permanently. Let them have a ray of hope in a world like this.
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Old 2006-11-12, 06:39   Link #1023
Shiroth
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Yeah, GONZO did do one hell of a job with episode 18. It takes balls to go ahead and change so much from the original source.. and they've done a wonderful job with the story, and keeping the overall feel of the series still there. As i've said in the past - from what looks to be a brilliant episode 19, i can see it leading a path to a complete new ending.

A 'happy' ending isn't something i want to see.. it just wouldn't fit-in with everything else that's happened in the show until this point. I'm sure GONZO also understand what i mean, and they'll try to avoid such a ending. It'll be happy.. but not the happy that many people would like to see.
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Old 2006-11-12, 07:52   Link #1024
physics223
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I'm not saying it would be extremely cheesy; I'd just want it to propose a better future or hint at happiness for these characters that have been suffering long enough.
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Old 2006-11-12, 08:54   Link #1025
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
I'm not saying it would be extremely cheesy; I'd just want it to propose a better future or hint at happiness for these characters that have been suffering long enough.
Just because they have been suffering, doesn't mean a happy ending is needed.
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Old 2006-11-12, 09:05   Link #1026
physics223
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So what would you propose? A seminal and visceral disintegration of what remaining sanity they have left?
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Old 2006-11-12, 09:08   Link #1027
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Ah well, some of us think a happy ending is needed when a happy ending can be delivered without being too much on the miracle side (Kanon 2k2),
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Old 2006-11-12, 09:09   Link #1028
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
So what would you propose? A seminal and visceral disintegration of what remaining sanity they have left?
Now now.. no need to go of on one just because i said something against your idea of a happy ending. :3

You know a happy ending is going to happen.. 'cause its anime, they won't get away with anything else - i just don't agree with after everything that has happened to these characters, that they can get away with a happy ending just like that. Something that leaves us wondering what could happen next makes more sense.

Well, i'm sure we'll start to understand a lot better about the ending after tonight's episode.
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Old 2006-11-12, 09:40   Link #1029
Deathkillz
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it probably would end up with satou not getting misaki but it doesnt mean that its "the end of the world" ending its been such a rollercoster ride so far im pretty much happy with whatever outcomes they are going to throw at me...what trauma that cant kill you will only make you stronger for the next trauma lol ^_^
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Old 2006-11-12, 09:53   Link #1030
physics223
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I don't know that a happy ending's going to happen. But if it would end properly, I hope for an ending that would improve the lives of the characters. Although a tragic ending is just as plausible as a happy one (even more so), I'd rather see the characters redeem themselves rather than exist (note, not flourish) in utter squalor.

I can accept a tragedy as much as I can a comedy (happy ending). However, in well-written tragedies there is always the element of redemption in the characters that perish. There is always something one can cull (either a lesson learnt from the tragedy or simply how to act in such circumstances, etc.) in the culmination of masterpieces: Raskolnikov became a changed man after being haunted by his conscience; in the dissolution of the Compson family can one see the triumph of the human spirit no less in what was once declared among the least souls in American history, a black maid named Dilsey; Robert Jordan found the meaning of his life in three eventful days.

I'd rather it not be a tragedy because the series would become a show of bathos. In our journey of this show for 24 episodes, if it still ends or remains a tragedy, then there would be practically no development for the characters. It would be a waste of time for us if we watched the further degradation of already depraved characters. There will be no redemption in the characters whatsoever if they remained unchanged or static as they were when the series first started. This is what distinguishes great tragedies from mere bathetic fodder. If NHK can show within the small span of time a spiritual redemption but an ultimately physical loss, I would be amazed and bow down to its greatness. This is highly implausible, however, and that's why I'd prefer a happy ending.

Does that answer your question?
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Old 2006-11-12, 09:53   Link #1031
Shiroth
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There hasen't been much talk if a second season could happen - i just couldn't see how they'd end of this series to happen. But we do have to keep in mind that a lot.. lot more happens in the manga after this point in the series, and i believe its needed for the full on NHK experience. Then again they could just end it at 24 episodes.. and leave the non-manga readers to start reading. Its happened before with many adaptations.

After Kashiwa-senpai's last appearance in episode 14, i knew they could easily bring her back into the series.. its been done many times in the manga - but with how long the Online game arc took to be told, now i see they did the smart thing and ended it there, with Satou saying "Be happy" to Her.
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Old 2006-11-12, 11:38   Link #1032
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I hope for some form of a positive ending as well. Not that I expect everyone to hold hands and hop off into the sunset but I really wish for some kind of positive glimmer to be shown in the characters futures. Honestly I want this much after this show has turned me into a masochist . I was seriously considering dropping this show after episode five. Not because I disliked the episode (on the contrary it was probably my favorite), but because it felt so much like the calm before the storm or a prelude to the despair that was going to ensue. However no matter how many times I tried to stop I kept watching because I wanted to see the characters again. Though they all may be messed up by societies standards I feel the show does a really great job of portraying them in a human way. I may not be a lolicon hikikomori or a drug-addled lonely office worker, but I could really relate to Satou's intense social anxiety and kashiwa's paranoid delusions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
After Kashiwa-senpai's last appearance in episode 14, i knew they could easily bring her back into the series.. its been done many times in the manga - but with how long the Online game arc took to be told, now i see they did the smart thing and ended it there, with Satou saying "Be happy" to Her.
Honestly I get the feeling she probably won't show up again and it makes me sad. She's my favorite character.

Last edited by Muddle!; 2006-11-12 at 15:45.
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Old 2006-11-12, 16:45   Link #1033
physics223
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Having her present will only complicate things for the show, but I don't mind her being around. I was also touched by Satou's unselfish action that episode: even if he was hurt, even if he was toyed around, even if he was a hikki, he saw that even he could have altruism. Amidst all the upheaval and crises in his life he manages to be (sometimes) a decent person - I would like this to be consummated, to flourish into something permanent, however, and that's among the reasons why I hope for a happy ending.
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Old 2006-11-12, 17:30   Link #1034
Deathkillz
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ep 19...revelation and a ray of hope is all i can say for the time being...i still need to get my thoughts together...its emotional and a feeling builds up inside of you that makes you releaved but also want to cry...
ill comment more later when i let these feeling sink in ^_^

for the time being...yamazaki stumbled into something interesting this ep...
Spoiler for dont click if you dont wish to lose the first time enjoyment:
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Old 2006-11-12, 17:47   Link #1035
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
I was also touched by Satou's unselfish action that episode: even if he was hurt, even if he was toyed around, even if he was a hikki, he saw that even he could have altruism.
Like i've mention in the past - its shows what true love is all about, and how much it means to Satou.

Phys: Just imagine if they'd animate Chapter 32.. i can't being to imagine what level of emotion/drama would come from it.
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Old 2006-11-12, 17:55   Link #1036
physics223
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It's quite implausible. The content of that chapter needs to be really turned down to be even shown on television (despite what people say, S&M is a taboo in any modern society, and even hints of it are unwanted). As much as I would love to see that chapter animated, it would only screw the pace of the anime seeing that they have only five more episodes to go before it finally ends. That would add unnecessary complications in a story (hopefully) well-planned by GONZO.

And as I could see from that picture, we are heading for totally new territory. I'm sure, though, that the picture isn't what it seems. Don't open it if you don't want to get spoiled, however. Maybe they could make a retelling, like The End of Evangelion, but hoping for c32 to be animated is just a dream. It would also be too late already.
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Old 2006-11-12, 18:00   Link #1037
Shiroth
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Yeah, i wasn't saying it should be added - its just that if this was 51 episodes.. or even a second season happened, we'd get it... and it would be something i know i'd love to see, even by GONZO.
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Old 2006-11-12, 18:09   Link #1038
physics223
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The beauty of a story is in its execution. With 51 episodes, fillers must be added - this would add unnecessary problems for me - and some discontent, because I never want my anime to be even with one episode of filler. Fillers destroy.

Think about AU (alternate universes) - this may be the best way to get the episode animated, maybe (just maybe) in an OVA.
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Old 2006-11-12, 18:32   Link #1039
Shiroth
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When the series ends at episode 24.. thats when it should end - that telling of this version of the story. Something like a one hour OVA wouldn't work with NHK.
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Old 2006-11-12, 18:41   Link #1040
physics223
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Yeah, you're right. I was just tickling my fancy, though.

I *do* wonder why Satou and Misaki were in such a promiscuous position.
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